Hidden antiquities sites

True, except for the cultural source. Warmongerers most definitely have access to culture and tourism. Even the regular antiquites sites they have the most access to. Although they might not have the hammers to build archaeologists--then again, they can capture them. The majority of my non-artifact great works are captured. For that matter, even a lot of the wonders are captured.
 
Okay, how about the Exploration tree for an Autocracy fueled CV? (As opposed to a domination victory run being interrupted by a CV.) I think there would be some synergy there. For CV via Autocracy, Aesthetics would be much less important. Exploration is already attractive for warmongering, so the cultural perks when really aiming for CV are a nice bonus. Still, it would not be closed out until filling out Rationalism and prolly 6+ SP in Autocracy, so those Hidden Antiquity sites are coming way late.
 
How pure a CV are you looking for? I do CV and pick Autocracy all the time, but I absolutely war a lot. What I also don't know is if the unit purchase discount from Mobilization applies to purchasing archaeologists. All 3 of Autocracy's tier 3's are very attractive, so there is no possible way to pick all of the policies you would want. I only put 3 SP into rationalism and instead get scholasticism from Patronage, to go together with gunboat diplomacy (my first tier 3 pick--unless I think I might switch ideologies, in which case I pick Clausewitz first). For cult of personality, I do the trick where I bribe the guy I'm about to DoW and pay him to DoW the rest of the world first. That gives me the tourism bonus for everyone but the guy I DoWed.

Futurism contributes very little toward CV. You are talking North of 30,000 tourism to win CV; futurism isn't going to put much of a drop in the bucket. It does, however, play good ideology defence, in that you can spawn a bunch of GWAM and get that tourism up to exotic very early.
 
Mobilization won't work for archaeologists because they can't be purchased with gold, they can be only built the old fashioned hammer way.
 
They can also be captured, and there are ways you can capture more of them. They involve war, though.
 
One strategy that crossed my mind was to finish exploration, and then pick up 3 policies in Commerce and get mercantilism. The last few explorations give you money, and autocracy gives you mobilization. You could do the mobilization+mercantilism+Big Ben combo; just do it after completing exploration. I did it with Order, and got sweetheart deals on airports to give me the CV.
 
Okay, how about the Exploration tree for an Autocracy fueled CV? (As opposed to a domination victory run being interrupted by a CV.) I think there would be some synergy there. For CV via Autocracy, Aesthetics would be much less important. Exploration is already attractive for warmongering, so the cultural perks when really aiming for CV are a nice bonus. Still, it would not be closed out until filling out Rationalism and prolly 6+ SP in Autocracy, so those Hidden Antiquity sites are coming way late.

Commerce has better synergy for Autocracy in general, and I would say this includes attempting an Autocracy CV, though I've only done one of those (turn 270, large, immortal). Also I should note I usually play without Rationalism to keep my tech pace equal to Immortal AI in mid-game.

Buying buildings and units in your cities with Commerce discounts while production is locked up on archeologists is a lot easier than trying to use a few extra hammers to build all things. You want to rush-buy hotels to boost stolen works. You want to rush-buy bombers to kill the AI whose been running absurd culture outputs all game. Futurism is brilliant for fixing your influence balance circa turn 220 but doesn't make much impact on your actual win time. Capping rival AIs quickly and stealing their works is what Autocracy is good for. (You still want the Exploration opener alone for that, too.) And in the the end sub turn-300 Autocracy CV usually doesn't work out because it's hard on the tech front to get both refrigeration and radio on time and, on the culture front, finish Commerce and also double back for Aesthetics closer. As far as post-turn 300 CVs, too much hassle.
 
That is amazing to me that you get turn 300 victories without Rationalism! Do you feel any competition from the AI?

I am lucky to get my Immortal wins much before turn 400 (everything standard) but still I am only filling out Tradition or Liberty, Rationalism, most of an ideology, and 3-4 more SP (usually Piety opener, and the SP in Aesthetics for half price culture buildings). Experimenting with the other trees has just made my games take even more turns.

I think I would have to be playing Poland to get a feeling for how the other trees help particular victories. If I drop down to Emperor, will I get more polices, or just win faster?
 
I think I would have to be playing Poland to get a feeling for how the other trees help particular victories. If I drop down to Emperor, will I get more polices, or just win faster?

LOL I feel like you're trolling, but solidarity gives 1 free SP per era so 7 in total if you play until information era.

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Right. Solidary gives one more tree by the end, since I do play until information era. My few games with Poland I focused on filling out a couple early trees, then Rationalism and an Ideology. I am thinking it might be more interesting to use them for Tradition or Liberty, Rationalism, most of an ideology, but then also Exploration or Commerce.
 
I appreciate all the interesting discussion and opinion!



Only 30%, the other 70% are the usual landmarks/artifacts.



I disagree with this, because it's late game, you should bulbing the Great Writers. Before even opening Exploration, your first two GW should be in amphitheaters or the NW you mention. Then they get traded and moved to Oxford as soon as you have that for theming bonus. Unless you have other wonders for theming bonuses, I think it is a pretty easy case to make for bulbing GW after the first two.

Ahhh correct (it's been some time since I did a full Exploration game). Yes you can get the choice of the great work of writing OR a cultural renaissance (obviously the culture is the better option). If you're that short of tourism that you need the GWW then you're probably not going to be able to win a culture game anyways.


I just tried a heavy exploration game: Carthage, Immortal, small continents plus, large map for an expansive culture victory.
I got the Great Library early (lucky Writing discovery from a ruin) and used that to tech IronWorking and build Colossus. Then I teched Optics and got the Great Lighthouse. Unconventional I know & messy since both those wonders are opposite ends of the tech tree but I wanted to play a good water game and I like those 2 Wonders.
Practically thought it didn't really pay off, neglecting the National College never works out too well.
I put a policy to open Tradition then I filled out the Liberty tree, from there straight into Exploration until half way (then detoured to Rationalism) & back to Exploration,

Thoughts: Well I discovered every civ first (kudos to Exploration opener & Great Lighthouse...) You know caravals can gain +4 sight (G Lighthouse, Exploration, caravel bonus, level 2 promotion...)so I could propose the World Fair.
At that point I had expanded to about 8 cities (I was hoping to play wider earlier but there weren't as many good city spots available as I hoped so I needed navigation).

Anyway Exploration & Liberty really does make expansion easy (throw in Colossus for the extra trade route). Every city you plant gets an immediate free Harbor as Carthage so thats 2 happiness off the beat.
The bonuses get even better once you get to Order and unlock 5 year plan and Party Leadership. All in all Liberty, Exploration & Order can give your base city + 7 hammers. Once you combine these policies which give +1 gold from maritime & science buildings city income really pays off. Late atomic era I was surplusing about 900 gold per turn.

In the end its a strategy that makes a mega superpower civ but the catch is.
1) Even with Great Library science in the mid game slowed so I was beaten to Radio and missed both Broadway and Eiffel Tower (This is where a Tradition start would excel). I don't really care about Broadway but Eiffel Tower I really like to get. So tourism was lower that it should have been. Culture ruins I had Great Library, Sistine Chapel, Louvre, Sydney Opera House. I had that many artifacts that about 11 cities had museums.

2) It's tricky getting the National Wonders. Hermitage is really important and you want it ideally no later than when the World Fair pops. Fortunately the Aesthetics policy helps with this. If you have a religion maybe start it in a non-capital city so you don't have to build the Grand Temple in the capital (free-ing it for National College)

3) Overextension - Civs don't like you plopping cities everywhere and if your hammers are going into Wonders then watch your back. Fortunately a maritime empire is reasonably easy to defend so long as you have some decent navy. If you have to lose a city then let it go (you can always reclaim it later - better to consolidate your existing assets)

4) Tradition Opener is really important. I do think if you can get that early culture ruin, your first policy in Tradition will make things much easier down the track - for instance if you plop down a mid game city once it is working its landmark the culture bonus is so good that borders expand really quickly. It sucks having to spend 300 gold to buy a tile if you see an AI settler moving 4 spaces away from your new city.

5) Expand fast- have extra settlers on standby even on the edge of an ocean (until you get Navigation) - AI Civs will colonise quickly so you need to be first in to get the best city sites. Try and get to Archaeology asap so you know where the landmarks are for culture/tourism. That should be first or second tech into the Industrial era.

6)Diety - not recommended!
Also Small continents plus seems to generate some nice mountain ranges & I'm surprised how useful mountains are to Carthage. Elephants and Knights can sneak around quite easily and avoid getting into trouble.
 
^ one minor detail, in point 2, you said about building Grand Temple somewhere else, I believe that's only possible in your holy city, so you won't be able to choose, unless you decided to found the religion in another city.
 
The late Exploration SPs and the finisher don't seem to have factored into your game much.
 
^ one minor detail, in point 2, you said about building Grand Temple somewhere else, I believe that's only possible in your holy city, so you won't be able to choose, unless you decided to found the religion in another city.

Yes that's what I meant. Some people swear that if you can move a Great Prophet quickly to another city (sometimes in a better spot - i.e. within 10 tiles of more cities & CSs) then not having to build a Grand Temple in the capital can make it easier for your cities to share the burden.
This is particularly the case if your start city is on a river with lots of food you will want it to the be the specialist and science centre so that means an early National College & Heroic Epic. Being able to move 1 National Wonder to another city makes it easier to continue expanding.
 
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