Rhye's Catapult

I eagerly await this mod, as RoC made Civ III fun again.

I will be lurking (and offering suggestions) quite often. Just wish I had the skills to contribute more.

Rhye said:

If you leave some cities, then in the end you'll have a 18 civs game.
And in that case:
- you'd have a much slower game in modern times
- there wouldn't be much space for the newest civs to expand (and you know, this Earth is smaller than the civ3 one).
- birth of civs wouldn't work that well, 'cause there would be less barbarian cities around to convert into the new owner

After all, civs like Persia, Aztecs and America existed in different times. Though harsh, it's necessary to make some of them collapse into indipendent cities to make more room (Indipendent cities: that's the real meaning: they aren't really becoming barbarians. But there's no other way of representing them. A minor civ like the ones in Greek World mod would take a slot out of the 18).
Anyway, if we found a better solution...

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I really like the idea. Wanted to do something similar on an earth map but failed because lack of time and python skills.
How about not turning all cities to barbarians but spawning barbarian units in the land of the civ?

Surtur said:

I really like the idea. Wanted to do something similar on an earth map but failed because lack of time and python skills.
How about not turning all cities to barbarians but spawning barbarian units in the land of the civ?

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Like Rhye said, the purpose is to completely remove the civ from the game, gradually. Through testing we'll probably make it more and more realistic and gradual, which may mean starting by spawning a lot of barbarian units before anything else. I don't know the details of the current implementation.

Blasphemous said:

Like Rhye said, the purpose is to completely remove the civ from the game, gradually. Through testing we'll probably make it more and more realistic and gradual, which may mean starting by spawning a lot of barbarian units before anything else. I don't know the details of the current implementation.

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I assume that this will be random for every game and not a ahrdcoded part of the mod? Meaning that we as players would not know going into the game the the Mongolian empire would start to decline in 1400AD regardless of how powerful they are.

Barak said:

I assume that this will be random for every game and not a ahrdcoded part of the mod? Meaning that we as players would not know going into the game the the Mongolian empire would start to decline in 1400AD regardless of how powerful they are.

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Like I said I don't know the details, but if I got it right, at certain semi-random points in the game, a semi-random selection would be made for one civ to decline and fall. By semi-random, I mean it will be random but with a strong inclination or disinclination towards certain selections.

Rhye said:

It is based on the level of advancement real civs had at that time

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I think this could be a real problem. Its generally very difficult trying to get everyone on the same page tech advancement wise. You remember from RoC how hard it was, right? Some people just don't tend to trade very much or play on a lower difficulty level so they lag behind. If there was some way with python to survey the current players of the game I think it would be much better (albeit much harder to do).

I'll try and do that 18 civ thing later tonight. I would be very dissappointing if you can't have more than 18 civs just on the file. I wonder, how do the big civilization mods like Superciv do it? I'll look into that too. Hopefully this thing could be changed easily with the SDK when it comes out (just guessing, I know nothing about C++).

-> A further refinement could be defining a range of techs that will be assigned only if already discovered by a certain number of neighbours. But I'd postpone this to when we have a simple, working version.


-> probably those mods just add civs to the possible choices, but can't add all of them in a single game

It is just that only 18 civs can be on a map at once, As many civs as you'd like can be added.

Actually I'm not exactly sure what you're asking about for the civs Rhye. Here's what I know about them:
- There is a max of 18 civs in the game at once
- You can have as many entries in the civilizations xml file for different civs.

What I'm not sure about is whether or not it's allowed to start with 18 civs, remove one, and replace that one with a new one. That might end up going over the 18 limit, and the more I think about it I think that since the game keeps track of score and such it would probably not allow a civ to be replaced. I don't think I can test that though, because I don't know enough Python to set it up.

as far as i know, even the replacement isn't allowed in python.
So, it seems that we'll hhave to use barbarians to represent further civs

by the way: I noticed this thread has already a rating, even though I haven't posted anything, not even a screenshot. And what's wierd is that there are 6 votes, and 4.33 average. That means five 5/5, and one 1/5...

anyhow, I have something where you could be useful.

The only empty part of code is the number and type of units added for each civ.

I'll let you discuss what's better in your opinion, from both point of views of history and balancement.

The things you need to know are where and when those civs will be born.
Where...I assume you have played the normal map, or RoC, so you should know.

When....here's the list of civ, approximated year and turn:

EGY 3100BC (22) (approximated to 4000BC)
IND 3000BC (25) (approximated to 4000BC)
CHI 2840BC (29) (approximated to 4000BC)
GRE 2000BC (50)
ROM 750BC (85)
PER 675BC (88)
JAP 650BC (89)
MON 300BC (103)
GER 100BC (111)
FRA 475AD (134)
ARA 580AD (139)
SPA 720AD (146)
ENG 840AD (152)
RUS 860AD (153)
MAL 1100AD (170)
INC 1150AD (175)
AZT 1200AD (180)
AME 1650AD (240)


(there's a historical reason for these dates. If you find any of these strange, just ask and I'll explain)

Hmmm, I think the dates are all pretty much up to interpretation. I personally would like to have France, England, and Spain all show up about the same time at the fall of Rome (late 5th century). I understand that those specific kingdoms might not have shown up then, but it would be much more interesting for play.

I would also have Mali show up earlier, to signify kingdoms that came before the specific kingdom of Mali. I don't know the exact dates for them, but I know they were there.


I really think that to do this whole timed birth thing for civilizations right we're going to need more than 18 civs. It might be just kinda boring as it is now, you'll essentially spend most of your time just fighting barbarians. I hope the SDK will allow us to put more in somehow.

Ghana began c.300AD so you could put Mali in at this time. It was essentially just a change in leaders from different clans. Plus, Mali barely lasted two centuries before being conquered by the Moroccans.

And, just to clarify, you can't trigger the change of a civ's name in python?

OH SWEET JESUS!

Now I know why I've been hating c4 so much! How did I possibly forget you promised this!

I want back on the team for this one, if for no reason other than that I want to help with the naval and colony stuff again

Quick thought: Can you rename a civ and change its attributes in game? For instance, say Egypt collapses. The code looks for a civ that dies, renames it, changes heads and uus and citylist, then pops it into the spot required.

I'm not a coder (lordy lord you know that) so I have no idea if it is possible, but it does sound plausible.

-As to colonies, I would suggest that they are gimped to size 4-5, with the option to build an improvement (semi-expensive) that can turn them into a city. Otherwise, twould be tres annoying to have your super rich sugar colony turn into a crummy city.

-Colonies again, how about resource based improvements to further expand the plantation idea, EX: sugar mill, req sugar cane in city radius, produces 1 sugar (+1 health or happy), sugar is also req for small wonder brewery, produces 2 rum resource.

-Is there a way to add 'trading posts' similar to the colonies of c3? If we are talking mobile cities, I have a feeling there would be some way to super-gimp the city thing into allowing them. Harbor &/or Airport construction possibilities in them would be a plus

-Do you already have access to the SDK?

-From what I have seen, air units need some serious pumps in terms of intercept likelihood. Carrier to City air combat needs pumping

-Some sort of military base placeable in allied territory would be handy. Combo fort/airbase or fort/navybase would be quite sveet. I do love the current ability to station troops in allied cities. Almost wet my pants with joy when I figured out it was possible.

-Bring back the navy system we made in rocx! SoL, Frig frig, and Transport

-Gunner's idea of stopping transports after a drop is brilliant! If land units get no moves, transports shouldn't either.

-Add in the ability to buy/sell soldiers. I was real bummed when I found out I couldn't be an international arms dealer. (not a real suggestion, but it might convince the ai to not be so trooper greedy)

-I love you Rhye

Are you waiting for Warlords to come out to do the design work, or will you just rework for warlords?

...bugger, that was supposed to be just one quick thought.

Ok so those are the current civs... Im wondering with this brilliant idea of scripting the creation of nations... does Australia have a shot? Please? Pretty Please with amazingly good things on top.

It seems that changing civ attributes during a game isn't possible. As far as I know.

So, for now, every minor civ (carthage, australia or whatever) will be represented by barbarian cities.

Aeon221 said:

-Bring back the navy system we made in rocx! SoL, Frig frig, and Transport
-Add in the ability to buy/sell soldiers. I was real bummed when I found out I couldn't be an international arms dealer. (not a real suggestion, but it might convince the ai to not be so trooper greedy)

Click to expand...

these two are already scheduled. The rest of the things you proposed will be discussed later, when the basic version (aka cannon or whatever) is finished.

Aeon221 said:

-Do you already have access to the SDK?
Are you waiting for Warlords to come out to do the design work, or will you just rework for warlords?

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Yes but in this moment I can't use it cos it's only compatible with next patch, so I'm not using it to stay compatible with you for now.

About Warlords, I don't think I'll have any role in it this time, so that's why I opened this thread. Of course, if this situation changed, I'd give the priority to warlords

1100AD is more or less the date when Timbuktu was founded.

300-500AD is a good alternative, but that period of time is already very crowded (I already pushed back Mongolia and Germany). It is necessary that the dates follow a regular flow