Best Civilization/Leader in CIVILIZATION V (October 2010)

My vote - Siam.

I love city states.

dude, there is already this thread about it. i think it's clear enough. plus why do you ask about the leader? it's not civ4. you can't choose the leader, and the leader doesn't give anything specific...finally, what do you mean for best civ: strongest civ or the civ we just prefer playing with?
btw i don't think china will be as popular after the new patch.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=420997

Persia without a doubt. Get chickensh*t (or however the wonder is pronounced) and the golden ages are 20 turns long. And those golden ages (with the extra strength and, especially, extra travel distance) make warring easy peasy, as well as eliminating money troubles.

It's Chichen Itza. Thank you for insulting the Mayas.
I like Arabia most: their UP is so-so, but their UU is great (basically the little brother of the Keshik, whose awesomeness cannot be described in the English language - only in Mongolian) and the UB is very decent too.

OT: 20% voted China and interesting, 20% of the world population is within the PRC (though the total Chinese population is greater)

prince_caspian said:

OT: 20% voted China and interesting, 20% of the world population is within the PRC (though the total Chinese population is greater)

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Yep OTOH, it's actually only 16.6%, and I'm sure some people living somewhere else voted for China too (they've got a very good UB, UU and a decentish UA so they are a very good civilization).

Even though this thread is about vanilla, I just can't help but say - Mongolia.

Keshiks seriously rock, and they are incredibly useful in taking down anything on flat open terrain or cities. The best part is when they get Logistics, or when you're mowing through an empire's road and using it like an artillery train.

Bandit17 said:

The title suggest this poll is about the "Best" civilization while we are discussing our favorite civ?

The best civ IMHO is Egypt. They can spam wonders, mass produce the weak war chariot and have one of the best UB's in the game that gives +2 happiness per city.

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I have to agree with the UB. It's fantastic!

Signed Askia,if you know what i mean

osmosis said:

I agree

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Siam is my favourite civ as well. It's a nice coincidence that a strong civ that suits my playstyle is also the representative for the part of the world whose history I'm most interested in.

I like playing with city-states, and also the flexibility to go for every victory condition with roughly equal bonuses to each. I also like having to work to some degree to use the UA to best effect, rather than having a passive bonus. All this is of course coupled with a very strong UU and a nice bonus from the UB.

Their UA & UB aren't anything to write home about, while the Greeks (who have a comparable UA have a very good UU and the broken-at-the-moment Comp Cavalry.

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Considering the UAs comparable misunderstands and drastically underestimates the Siamese UA. The Greek UA doesn't really do a great deal - it saves you cash by leading to a slower rate of influence decay, but all those CSes you're holding onto aren't doing anything for you that other civs' CS friends/allies aren't. Siam saves you money as an incidental effect (by effectively giving you much of the benefit of allied CSes with friendship status, or the effective benefits of two friends with only one), but with cultural and particularly with maritime states is extremely powerful if you maintain allies.

The Hoplite is nothing special, and the Greeks lose impetus quickly since their units are both ancient era. Companion Cavalry are indeed very strong, but lose effectiveness once Machinery is researched and their ability to outflank and hit enemy ranged units is denied by enemies fielding crossbowmen who are their equals in melee. Siamese elephants are strong enough to win one-on-one against Pikemen with equal health, are better in melee than any equivalent-era unit (including French Musketeers) and remain solid into the age of riflemen.

If however you are going for a cultural victory or want to micromanage a small number of powerhouse cities then in my opinion Songhai is hands down the best choice. Make sure you have barbs on (maybe even raging barbs like I do) and adopt the first Honor policy asap: every cleared camp nets you 225 gold instead of 75. You have no idea how much this fuels development.

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Playing on Emperor, as noted it's 75 vs. 25. This is however still a very strong bonus, and yes I've played Songhai as an economic powerhouse on Emperor and take Honor with them - it is an extremely powerful civ, and among my favourites (definitely my favourite for domination); however it doesn't suit my playstyle quite as well as Siam.

Paper Makers are excellent for China's economy. This, in addition to their GG bonus, make them good at two of the most important facets of civ (warfare and the economy). The economic bonus also indirectly helps other aspects of the game (culture, science, warfare).

A few other civs are better than China at individual things (warmongering, science, culture, etc.) but none have the whole package that they do.

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Disagree. China is strong, but you're relying for their strength in theatres other than domination on the relatively minor gold bonus from paper maker, which doesn't bring them close to competing with economy-focused civs like Arabia, Songhai or Persia. I'd probably vote Songhai for 'most versatile civ' since they specialise in two things - gold and culture - that underpin all victory conditions, and both are complementary since the mosque is maintenance-free. Quick culture gets you through the Honor tree more rapidly and to the valuable gold-from-kills finisher, which boosts the economy further, money that can be used to invest in science buildings, culture buildings, units/courthouses, CS allies or whatever else you need, while culture can be ploughed into policies that benefit all victory conditions.

England is quite a lot better on a continents map, but I also don't see why anyone would vote for them.

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Longbowmen. 3 range in the Renaissance is very powerful. It's misleading to judge a civ by its UA in isolation - you don't see many people claiming the Mongols suck because their 'bonus against CSes' UA isn't very useful. Same with, say, the Ottomans who have a poor UA but also the very strong Janissary.

Though I can't see voting for England, simply because a civ whose big sell is a unit with a good boost, and one that isn't game-altering (unlike, say, the Keshik) at that, isn't as good as one that directly helps you secure one or more win conditions. 3 range is good, but the longbowman is not Renaissance artillery - it has no particular bonus against cities and its attack is relatively weak, in an era when trebuchets outperform them as city-killers, and in an era with few units with movement greater than 2, being able to shoot from a long distance is less useful than it becomes in the age of mechanised infantry.

While the Ottomans are not even close to the best, the Janissary alone puts them in the top half of all civs. If you think the Ottoman suck, then you haven't played agressive offense on high difficulty levels with Janissaries. They sweep the opposition, rock up experience, and their promotion moves up with them when upgraded.

That said, Cho Ko Nu are nearly as good as Janissaries and even better in some situations. Plus they have a great UB and a much better unique ability on all but water-heavy maps. They are clearly better.

France's UA and one of their UUs are strong, but they are not in the same league. The Greeks are suited to one playstyle and are more limited than China. Siam is the best for cultural victories, so they rank high but not highest. England is best for water maps and domination games but are limited. Songhai is good for dominations with a great UU are are top 10. Overall, taking into consideration all victory conditions, I think I would have to go something like this for my top 10:

1. China
2. France
3. Siam
4. Greece
5. Egypt
6. Songhai
7. Japan
8. Perisa
9. Germans
10. Ottomans

I like the Persians - long Golden Ages and a good UB.

Rome and her early siege! Even without iron I can sometimes turn her into a monster!

And the Glory of Rome is not too shabby towards mid-late game anyhow...

For me it is Egypt. The 20% bonus on Wonders is great. I can build an exceptionally strong empire and go in different directions with it, which I have done with success. My second choice is Rome, with the help in building any buildings already built in Rome. It is easy to build a powerful empire, just in a different way.

I don't understand how France is such a great Civilization. Greece is fantastic for the United Nations victory. Japan is great for a domination victory. At Prince Level I won a one city cultural victory with Gandhi.

Personally i think that the English empire is great.
I mean the SoL combined with one or two ground units with the amphibious promo can take out a large city easily.
Also the long bowman is a very effective ranged attack against most of the units from its time.

One last thing to note is that the SoL is one the the longest lasting units.

Belzy said:

Personally i think that the English empire is great.
I mean the SoL combined with one or two ground units with the amphibious promo can take out a large city easily.
Also the long bowman is a very effective ranged attack against most of the units from its time.

One last thing to note is that the SoL is one the the longest lasting units.

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Navy against an AI is never anything important in most games. Especially since the AI seems to hate coastal cities.

Longbowmen are only situationally useful depending on terrain, otherwise they're just as good as crossbowmen. The WORST thing about them is their promotions don't carry on even to their very next upgraded unit....

Strange no one has mentioned the Iroquois as the best. The swordsmen without iron ability is always huge in my games. I can build as many as I want and use my always puny supply of iron for catapults/trebuchets. Having less road maintenance is a boost in the early game as well.

I don't see the big deal about the Chinese crossbow unit. If I'm playing as the Iroquois and China is nearby, they aren't going to survive long enough to start building them.

I voted Rome.
A great civ regardless of strategy, you can win really quickly by rushing to Legions and maintain a massive Empire without too much trouble.

I don't think that it is any of these. I believe that it is Babylon, but if I had to chos between all of these I think it's Japan.

I enjoy Russia. Production bonus is great, and I can always get a massive sprawling empire with them.

Hi all, it is nice to be back here on the forum. I like very much this discussion so let me add my 2-cents opinion: assuming that I didn't buy G&K expansion pack and so I don't know if any rebalancement among "tribes" has been done, I think that some of them have rather insignificant bonuses, while other tribes have outstanding ones and, overall, there is no balance among tribes.
Eg, Bismark and Germans are fair weak: who cares to convert lame barbarians into soldiers? Yes, the panzer is strong but it is something that you will use only in modern age and you have to reach that age first! Also, I have tried with Japan and didn't feel any difference during war times with other tribes.

Imho, the strongest of all is Darius of Persia: its ability to extend a golden age is awesome because it will boost each of your cities in economy and production. This is imho much better than other tribes as Romans or Egyptians which have a bonus to build buildings or wonders and stuff. Only with him I have managed to complete all the cultural trees that I did like! With more than 50 consecutive turns of golden age, I have had a scientific and productive boom that has allowed me to complete greatly in advance even the most important cultural buildings, which has given me a very significant advantae and tons of cultural points.
Also, the Siam is very powerful: if you are a peace-monger, they truly boost the relationships with City-States much better than Alexander with Grece.
Russia is among my favourites too, since their bonus is really significant! But you are more dependant from a lucky or unlucky map.
Also Napoleon and France are very good and Rome has an interesting ability but is not flawless: the first one ends with Railroad (or so) but is great at spreading cultural influence in the earliest stages of the game even without cultural buildings, while the Romas must assume that you have already built the needed buildings in the city, which is really hard since the capital is the first city that spreads settlers and the faster to build wonders! So it is really hard to get full advantage from that bonus.