Ruff02 - Concurrent Succession Game

bobrath said:

Waiting on Spinoza....

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He's MIA from another SG as well, so i don't know what is up....

If Spinoza is missing, we can probably starting the discussion about the 3 saves we already have...

pholkhero said:

Spoiler :

also, w/the avail saves, it looks like we're gonna lose the copp soon to culture...we need all the axes we can get in the shortest amt of time...

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we need to buil Bollywood in this one

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laughin' my f'in ass off (acronym too short)

well, if I remeber correctly just capital produce only 2 culture turn.
Mongols do not have any wanders and if we pillage them in stone age they never will. City is not in dange yet, it is still 100% indian I believe.

Can you guys pls put together a summary of your round, things like ...

• # of warriors
• # of axes
• # of workers
• # of settlers
• # of cities
• techs researched
• score

Basically things that will help us tell the plays apart.

Also, I will be on a skip for the next two weeks. I might be able to participate in discussion but prob not play.

# of warriors - 4
# of axes - 3(2 next turn) all produced with barrack.
# of workers - 2
# of settlers - 0
# of cities - 2
Deli produced granary. Hill mined, corn farmed and cow pastured. Fish boated.
Memphis - obelisk + barrack. Cooper mined.

techs researched -
Fishing, Pottery, Animal hasbentry, priesthood(4 turns left), 22GP in bank
score - 163

# of warriors - 2
# of axes - 2 all produced with barrack.
# of workers - 2
# of settlers - 0
# of cities - 2
Deli produced granary. Hill mined, corn farmed, 1 cottage next to the river done. (the 2 silks are still forested, so they still can be choped)
Bombay. Cooper mined, and another hill mined.

techs researched -
Fishing, Pottery, Sailing, Iron Working (15 turns left), 21GP in bank, +2 GPT
score - 173

other point of interest: Munich is buddhist, and Bismark is now Buddhist , he also had adopted slavery

I like Mutineer's military buildup, I think it puts us in a great place to steal a capital and totally weaken Khaaaan.

On the other Hand Chriseay's got a very strong capital and some good infrastructure in place.

Radiopill has us in a good place relationship wise with the Germans and you can't turn your nose up at that.

Currently I'd lean towards Mutineer's save, but I want to like Chriseay's more.

I'm at work now, but when I get home later I'll take a look and summarize those numbers for everyone. Well, thinking about it I can give a shot at it now, and I'll edit if I'm wrong about something.

# of warriors - 3 or 4 (1 in delhi and two in bombay I am sure about)
# of axes - 0, though I did start production on one
# of workers - 3
# of settlers - 0
# of cities - 2

tech: wheel -> fishing -> animal husbandry -> sailing
pottery is chosen, but no beakers have been invested yet

I'll hopefully provide some more info when I get home.

after reviewing them all again, I'd have to go w/Mutineer...the mil build-up is too much to ignore...i like that the cows are hooked up too, for the food AND shields....

also, @ mutineer: could you explain your slavery/axe exploit again...i didn't quite follow it, though i know eng is not your first lang. ..thanks

edit:
Ruff_Hi -
bobrath - Mutineer (I think)
knupp715 -
chriseay -
T_Raccoon -
pholkhero - Mutineer
Spinoza - (not around?)
Mutineer -

I have to admit that the save of Mutineer is the best one for us. This save gives us a good chance to take beshalik and perhaps karakorum... and as it was already says cows and fish are already online for

And with a little chance the RNG god will be with us to also convert Bismark in this save...

My understanding of Mutineer's Axe producing tactic:

So, I start whipping axes. Secret to that is to do 2 population whipes, which let one to produce 2 axes every 3 turns.
Axe cost 35 hammers. Whiping 1 pop give 30 hammers. Whipping thinks the same turn as starting carry penalty, so you should not do that.
So turn one, produce 4 hammers to Axe (manipulate working ties not to produce any more).
Turn 2, do double whipe, giving you additional 60 hammers + 2 hummers from city) 4+60+2 = 66.
Deli drop to size 2, with population work only food ties.
When turn 2 finsihed, 35 of this went to produce Axe, 31 left in overflow.
Turn 3, Use 31 overflow + 4 natural hammers, turn finished - 1 more Axe.
Depends, this or next turn Deli will grow to size 4.
That let as to produce 2 axes every 3 turns untill deli would not have 4 productive person (suplus happiness fall below 4)

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So In the first turn you are producing an axe you only allow 4 hammer to go into it. (you're getting past the penalty for whipping a unit/building in the first turn). Then because whipping produces 30 hammers and an axe costs 35, you can double pop whip. So total hammers in the axe is 66 (see above). So you overflow into the next unit (another axe) and can use natural city production to finish the second axeman in the third turn.

The limitation on this is happieness (and of course population). It does allow you to maximize your whipping hammer production.

i'll have to experiment then, before my turns come up....

edit:
Ruff_Hi -
bobrath - Mutineer (I think)
knupp715 - Mutineer
chriseay -
T_Raccoon -
pholkhero - Mutineer
Spinoza - (not around?)
Mutineer -
radiopill - Mutineer

My vote goes for Mutineer because of his military build-up. This will be very cruicial to handling the Khan situation.

edit:
Ruff_Hi - Mutineer
bobrath - Mutineer (I think)
knupp715 - Mutineer
chriseay -
T_Raccoon -
pholkhero - Mutineer
Spinoza - (not around?)
Mutineer -
radiopill - Mutineer

Strong plus is the Good military but a negative is the lack of religion in our close enemies. Military outweights religion so I vote for Mutineer. I would suggest that we road all the way to Khan's borders as religion needs trade routes to spread quickly.

So we also need to research asap sailing, for trade routes with Bismarck... because I don't think we really need to improve our relationship with khan...

Bobrath I think refrased my explanation well. But I would want to add some additional infor. There are pictures which I took that I think illustrate it on each step. They are attached to my post.
Max pop you can whipe is Rounddown(city pop/2). It does not matter is pop happy or not, you still can whipe it. So, In practice that mean that we can produce Axes fast untill Deli have only 2 happy citisens.

I put an article about efficient whiping in Artical section, but people were just lauthing on my English. Whiping is the most powerfull shield production tool in Civ4. When you whipe 4 pop town you convers 1 unit of food to 2.5 shields.

Natural ways of conversion food to shield:
Setler/worker production = 1-1
Plain forest 1-2
plain hill mine 2-4 (1-2)
Grassland mine 1-3

So, if you do not have enogth population or hills to convert naturally, whiping mach more easy avalible and efficient way. Early towns often have a huge suplus of food they can not naturally convert to shield or to commerce. So, Generally, early on whiping mach more efficient.

But as town grows, it stopping be true.
One does not need forest catting to produce an army so long as it has whip.

But for exapmle, for size 15 town working tundra forest (1-1 conversion) is more efficient then whip.
Yes, some times you want to whip anyway, because you need something NOW, but undestanding whip efficiency is important.

you can double pop whip.

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I think it's this phrase that threw me...you don't mean whip twice, you mean, b/c you need more than 30 shields to finish the axe, you can whip for 2 pop, and teh exceess overflows to the next axe....am i right about that 'double whip' thing??

pholkhero said:

I think it's this phrase that threw me...you don't mean whip twice, you mean, b/c you need more than 30 shields to finish the axe, you can whip for 2 pop, and teh exceess overflows to the next axe....am i right about that 'double whip' thing??

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Yes, wipe for 2 population. 1 whipe.

great! if you want to make your article to be more accessible to others, i'd be willing to help re-word it for you. I'm not an engish student or anything, but this IS a good exploit; more people should know of it.