Ruff02 - Concurrent Succession Game

pholkhero said:

great! if you want to make your article to be more accessible to others, i'd be willing to help re-word it for you. I'm not an engish student or anything, but this IS a good exploit; more people should know of it.

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Feel free to make one. It is probably widly known trick, but people do not want to tell about it because it's probably gives a big advantage in Multiplayer.
Here my attempt to explain using whip, which did not resieve any replay exept lauthing.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163885

If you want, combine them. I am advocating freelly use slavery in initial expanding/conquest stage. Look On Deli for example. It has 3 very productive tiles (fish, rise and cow) 2 good ties (mined hill and silk plain forest). Early on it had only one and later only 2 very good ties. So, there are no mach profit in grow Deli over size 3. Even useing good ties we will be loosing only 2 production/population. But borrowing into happiness let as produce workers, setlers, military mach faster. In mean time worker can improve special ties for others cities, increasing your prodiction output mach more, then try to improve just average ties. It is all matter of speed.
Ofcouse one need granary and good food supluss to use slavery efficiently.
Additional sources of happiness would not hurt. Important thin to know is when to stop and switch to grow. And at size 3 Deli still can efficiently use all best ties for setler/worker production, using natural 1-1 conversion.

Actially all civ city managment can be look upon like ways of converting food to production or to commerce. The same as real life. No food, no work.

I really like you article, I think it will really improve my future game. I never calculate a lot, but this tip can really improve my early growth skill... thx

I have to vote for mutineer's save, because we are planning on soonish war. I played my save on the assumption of the other option, the turtle and grow a little before fighting. Anyway, good job mutineer, I think it's a runaway.

PS - Just a semantic note Mutineer, since I realize your first language isn't English - you may want to call your whipping technique something other than an exploit. Exploit holds a negative connotation in English and especially in regards to civ. It doesn't seem like what you're doing at all goes against the spirit of the game; it is just using the whipping system to it's utmost.

exploit = "using the sytem to its utmost"
6 of one, half dozen of the other...

the argument could be made that the Anarchy exploit that Moonsinger found is 'using the anarchy system to its utmost"

whichever you call it, it's a godo technique...

Mutineer said:

Feel free to make one. It is probably widly known trick, but people do not want to tell about it because it's probably gives a big advantage in Multiplayer . . . , which did not resieve any replay exept lauthing.

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I will b/c i do think this is a ghreat trick and if SOME people are going to use it in MP, might as well make it widely available to even up the playing field...

pholkhero said:

exploit = "using the sytem to its utmost"
6 of one, half dozen of the other...

the argument could be made that the Anarchy exploit that Moonsinger found is 'using the anarchy system to its utmost"

whichever you call it, it's a godo technique...

Click to expand...

True true, but, I would make the argument that the anarchy exploit is an exploit, rather than a good technique, because it goes against the spirit of the game. The designers clearly did not mean for anarchy to be a good thing and used in that fashion.

On the other hand, whipping multiple population is a viable strategy for multiple reasons, including shield overflow, happiness/health management, etc. Thus, I don't think it is an exploit because it fits in with what the game was meant to do.

In short, in the computer world and the world or civ, usually an exploit describes something akin to cheating, while a word like technique describes a way to leverage an advantage through using the game mechanics in an intended way.

Sorry about the rant! I do like the way you used whipping mutineer. It's an inventive way I wouldn't have thought of.

Seems majority people voited for me, here is the save. I maigth be bisy tomorrow, so have fun.

Yes, i understand what you are saying, but:

usually an exploit describes something akin to cheating, while a word like technique describes a way to leverage an advantage through using the game mechanics in an intended way.

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one man's "cheat" is another man's "technique"

Ok, we have the save and I have randomly split us into two groups again. Here they are ...

Group 1 - up now
pholkhero
knupp715
radiopill
chriseay

And Group 2 ...
Spinoza
Ruff_Hi
bobrath
Mutineer

Question - how many rounds should we play - 15, 20 or 25

20/25 turns

Ok I'll try to play this tomorrow, but if I don't get it done I'll have to ask for a swap to group two....I'll be out of town Sunday through Tuesday and I don't want to hold up the game if I don't have to.

How many turns are we playing?

20 probably a good number now on.

BTW folk, I just want to as you, did you now undestand one more implication of my Axe whipping trick in sertan conditions? I think I did drop sort of a clue about it and I do think it is still balanced for normal speed.
Please, Ask yourself, How I can abuse this trick even more? What limitations exist on this abuse?

Mutineer said:

BTW folk, I just want to as you, did you now undestand one more implication of my Axe whipping trick in sertan conditions? I think I did drop sort of a clue about it and I do think it is still balanced for normal speed.
Please, Ask yourself, How I can abuse this trick even more? What limitations exist on this abuse?

Click to expand...

I'm never good at figuring stuff like this out, but my guess would be it has something to do with forest chops. Those are usable to get things in a more efficient manner, such as the settler or worker with no food play.

no, it has nothing to do with forest chop

Okay, 20 turns it is. I've got the save.

Mutineer said:

no, it has nothing to do with forest chop

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Told ya I'm no good at figuring this kinda stuff out! I'll be waiting to see what it is then....

I've got it. I play 20 turns.

i've got it as well...

Turn 60 (1600 BC)
Delhi finishes: Axeman

Turn 61 (1560 BC)
Delhi begins: Axeman
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Delhi grows: 4
Bombay finishes: Axeman

Turn 62 (1520 BC)
Bombay begins: Axeman
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Delhi finishes: Axeman

Turn 63 (1480 BC)
Delhi begins: Axeman
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Tech learned: Priesthood
Delhi grows: 3
Delhi finishes: Axeman

Turn 64 (1440 BC)
Research begun: Sailing
Delhi begins: Axeman
Axeman promoted: City Raider I

Turn 65 (1400 BC)
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman defeats (2.20/5): Mongolian Archer

Turn 66 (1360 BC)
Axeman promoted: Medic I
Axeman defeats (0.60/5): Mongolian Archer
Axeman defeats (0.25/5): Mongolian Archer
Axeman defeats (3.10/5): Mongolian Archer
]Razed Beshbalik (Genghis Khan)
Delhi finishes: Axeman
Bombay finishes: Axeman
Axeman loses to: Mongolian Archer (3.00/3)

Turn 67 (1320 BC)
Delhi begins: Axeman
Bombay begins: Axeman
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman defeats (4.20/5): Mongolian Archer
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: City Raider II
Axeman promoted: City Raider II
Bombay's borders expand
Buddhism has spread: Bombay

Turn 68 (1280 BC)
Axeman promoted: City Raider II

Turn 69 (1240 BC)
Delhi finishes: Axeman
Axeman defeats (3.05/5): Mongolian Archer

Turn 70 (1200 BC)
Delhi begins: Settler *@ this point, the mongol capital had 4 archers, on a hill, some with city I so i settled into a war of attrition w/Mongolia, but knew we needed more cities to keep it up...i eventually ended up pillaging most of the improvements, except for the roads for now
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman promoted: City Raider II
Axeman defeats (2.70/5): Mongolian Archer
Axeman defeats (2.10/5): Mongolian Archer

Turn 71 (1160 BC)

Axeman loses to: Mongolian Archer (3.00/3)
Axeman defeats (1.05/5): Mongolian Archer

Turn 72 (1120 BC)
Axeman loses to: Mongolian Archer (1.20/3)
Bombay finishes: Axeman

Turn 73 (1080 BC)
Bombay begins: Work Boat
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
Axeman defeats (3.10/5): Mongolian Archer
Axeman loses to: Mongolian Archer (3.00/3)
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 74 (1040 BC)
Tech learned: Sailing
Axeman defeats (1.10/5): Mongolian Archer

Turn 75 (1000 BC)
Research begun: Hunting
Axeman promoted: Woodsman I
Delhi finishes: Settler * I send him out alone, offering respect and sacrifice to RNGod, Lord of the Random Barb Rolls!

Turn 76 (975 BC)
Delhi begins: Warrior
Delhi finishes: Warrior * He goes to cover the settler

Turn 77 (950 BC)
Delhi begins: Lighthouse
Warrior promoted: Combat I
Delhi's borders expand
Bombay finishes: Work Boat

Turn 78 (925 BC)
Bombay begins: Lighthouse
Madras founded
Madras begins: Granary
Delhi grows: 4

Turn 79 (900 BC)
Tech learned: Hunting

Turn 80 (875 BC)
Research begun: Archery

So, we have sailing, 5-7 axes, a work boat out and exploring for now, but, if Khan's galley has arrived on the western coast of mongolia, where Beshbalik...it's got an archer and a settler and it looks like they are going to resettle the area...of course, raze it, but we also need to set-up a city there ASAP ~ it should be our next build in delhi, after lighthouse completes...

it also looks like there is another mongol city to the south ~ it may be worth sending a few axes down to pay a surprise visit...i have 3 on the way now, w/4 still around the capital, fortified in pairs on good terrain...they only have to face archers for now!