Worst wonder?

For a Spiritual leaders- Cristo Redentor of course.
For Expansive with their quick workers- Hagia Sophia.
It is all very subjective & situational.
As for Hagia Sophia - I have a tendency to 1 worker/city... I just have no time for them... Don't know why( and Hagia gives those priceless Great engineer points
I give my vote to Statue of Zeus.

lasombra1984 said:

For a Spiritual leaders- Cristo Redentor of course.

Click to expand...

Being able to change civics every turn instead of every 5 turns is very powerful.

On a huge map at marathon I can see Chichen Izza having at least some value . Not Much but at least more than the space elevator .

Reason being , if you have a large empire at these speeds then you do need some sort of defenses in place in your outer cities and if you do get invaded , then the couple of extra turns CI allows is pretty handy (you just know the AI is gonna spend a few turns bombarding) .

Posiibly even better for Holy Rome and Aztecs as 1. a big empire is likely and 2. a beeline to COL is viable.

still a dud wonder , just not the worst.

Chicken Pizza I've actually found useful on rare occassions (Prophet points for a shrine, for example). Space Elevator has never been useful.

ParadigmShifter said:

Chicken Pizza gives Great Prophet points not Great Engineer points.

Click to expand...

You're right. That shows how often I have built the thing.

TMIT said:

This is only true if you ALSO get robotics in trade.

Click to expand...

Hence why I included the caveat -

By the end of the game you will have finished the tech tree anyway and will be well into the Future Techs.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't tech Robotics unnecessarily, but on the final turns of a space race everything is done and you're just killing time. This is when you build the Space Elevator out of sheer boredom so that the game ends one turn sooner.

azzaman333 said:

Being able to change civics every turn instead of every 5 turns is very powerful.

Click to expand...

I don't see any use of it)

I think that Elevator becomes more useful if you are Industrious & going to win Space Race in a One City Challenge)

lasombra1984 said:

I don't see any use of it)

Click to expand...

One use would be to Run rep for the , switching into US for rushbuys a turn at a time. Heck, why not switch to vassalage, too. There's also massive potential for espionage abuse. You can essentially force anyone into any civic or religion at any time, provided you have the EP, and the damage to your economy is practically nil. You could do this sort of thing with just the spiritual trait, but the 5 turns lag time means lost / , extra , and/or waiting out temporary bad relations.

lasombra1984 said:

I don't see any use of it)

I think that Elevator becomes more useful if you are Industrious & going to win Space Race in a One City Challenge)

Click to expand...

Just because you don't see a use for it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

ICNP said:

@r_rolo
I lol'ed at seeing Archery and Horseback riding on that list. I'm guessing that was an isolated game where you could make do with only melee units?
Internet is great at the higher levels where you actually are behind the AI in tech, on the low levels most people will have won by now or are gunning to be the first with Modern Armor.

Click to expand...

I will normally skip archery and HBR if i have no reason to tech them, even if not in isolation ( strong early UU, no close neighbours, no phants for HBR , metals close of home, Agg trait ( makes melee more resilient to barbs ), ... ). By acident that game was one of the LHC ( as you can see from the name of the player ), but was a high enough level ( Immortal ) indeed .

But I disagree with you when you say that Internet is only good in high levels. What really happens is that Internet is not useful unless you lack a good bunch of techs that the AI has ( duh ) and that means that you are in a situation where you are in a disavantage towards the AI. As most people play in a level that ensures that they will be a era ahead of the AI by the times of robotics or they will have quitted far before ( quoting a poster in this thread ... I'm pretty sure that the poster in question would had quitted the game from where i took that pic ages ago: 5x less power than the weakest AI, 6th in score and generally a tech era behind everyone else except in the path for computers ), obviously the Net is bad "wonder" for them. But again , that is only one more proof of what I've been saying for quite a while: most people don't play at their real level of skills, but one or two below

NihilZero said:

You're right. That shows how often I have built the thing.



Hence why I included the caveat -



I wouldn't tech Robotics unnecessarily, but on the final turns of a space race everything is done and you're just killing time. This is when you build the Space Elevator out of sheer boredom so that the game ends one turn sooner.

Click to expand...

That caveat fails though, because the assumption that you have ALL the techs in the game before completing the ship is somewhat ridiculous. If you're trying to actually end the game sooner, you research the technologies you need first. I showed that even a very dismal hammer empire can build the last ship part in 10 normal speed turn or less usually, which means even if robotics is the first thing you tech after researching techs you *actually need*, you would have to research robotics, build space elevator, and do so before your part completes + soon enough that it affects construction speed.

Not likely.

I think that Elevator becomes more useful if you are Industrious & going to win Space Race in a One City Challenge)

Click to expand...

How many turns does it take you to research robotics?

How many turns after researching your final space ship tech do you need to complete the space part?

If the latter is < than the former, self-researching robotics and thus the space elevator loses instantly.

However, even if you get it from internet somehow, in OCC you have to ACTUALLY STOP building space parts while building the elevator, so in addition to the research time, you have to factor in the the delay ----> payback time of SE.

OCC setups usually have a LOT of base hammers. 100ish base hammers should be very common/expected, since you can just spam caste workshops, railroad mines, etc and have settled specs. If you manage that, even w/o aluminum or say iron you have 100% (factory + power), 50% (bureaucracy), 50% (lab), 50% (Ironworks 1 resource). A very awful situation for OCC gives you about 250 hammers...you can build an engine in 6-7 turns...you don't need the hammers as badly as you need the techs to build the parts, EVEN THERE.

I usually have more than enough cities to at the least build all the parts and SE simultaneously. But as I said I play Next War and SE is done much before I can even start building space parts.

1. Shwedagon Paya - What civic do you even get from this? Pacifism a few turns earlier? Free Religion an era early? Come on.

Click to expand...

.................................... I can't even comment on that...

I lol'ed at seeing Archery and Horseback riding on that list.

Click to expand...

I almost always avoid these techs in my games as well.

SickFak said:

I usually have more than enough cities to at the least build all the parts and SE simultaneously. But as I said I play Next War and SE is done much before I can even start building space parts.

Click to expand...

Yeah...in vanilla/warlords SE didn't require robotics, and instead came much sooner possibly. With the restriction of an expensive/unnecessary tech removed and the ability to build it sooner, it turns into a viable...even situationally solid wonder.

Or maybe I'm doing something wrong and I should be having around 6000 beakers/turn on a standard map, where bothering to get robotics might be worth my while for 50 base cities. I don't think so though.

I consider both the Itza and the BTS-Elevator to be really bad. But the same argument about early advantages being better than late advantages goes the other way around. Wasting 500 in the classical age is worse than what you loose on the elevator in the modern age.

So my vote goes for the Chichen Itza.

ICNP said:

1. Shwedagon Paya - What civic do you even get from this? Pacifism a few turns earlier? Free Religion an era early? Come on.

Click to expand...

Exactly. You just answered your own question...

Yeah...if you have gold and are using aesthetics as trade bait, Paya can be useful for any religious civic but OR (which is too easy to obtain for the benefit to be considered helpful there normally).

I've only build Shwedagan once, to see what the video was like I have to admit (in a time victory game for the HoF).

I normally trade for theology and bulb philosophy though. I can see it being useful in games where it is too risky to run a state religion.

Why so many people hating on the Chicken Pizza? If I've got access to stone, it's usually one of my automatic choices. 25% Defense on the cities stacks very nicely with hilltops and units with defensive bonuses. Obviously without stone, I wouldn't bother with it, but it's hardly the worst wonder on the list. That's reserved for the MoM, probably.

Darth Fred said:

I voted for the Taj, but only because I didn't see The Apostle's Palace on the list.
F

Click to expand...

it is the WORST wonder, not the BEST wonder topic O_o

thelibra said:

Why so many people hating on the Chicken Pizza? If I've got access to stone, it's usually one of my automatic choices. 25% Defense on the cities stacks very nicely with hilltops and units with defensive bonuses. Obviously without stone, I wouldn't bother with it, but it's hardly the worst wonder on the list. That's reserved for the MoM, probably.

Click to expand...

The Mausoleum of Demis Roussos is great for space race games where you have lots of Golden Ages at the end.