So...being a die hard Civ fan (including Alpha Centauri, Civ: Revolutions, etc etc) -- does anyone hate this move to Steam? I've read all the pro's & con's. As a person working in Software Development I understand the need for copyright & IP protection but god I hate Steam. Yes, I hate it so much I finally created an account to open this thread. Hate or love Steam? Discuss.
Steam - love or hate?
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Beardy Dan
Warlord
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FFS another thread.
Jamesds
Great Scientist
We've already discussed this topic to death before release 
. I've used Steam for when I purchased the Orange Box, and I use it for playing Team Fortress 2 most days, which is part of the Orange Box. I've not had any problems with steam, in fact I quite like it, and I attribute people's dislikes to the usual complaints that arise against something new. It just takes getting used to I guess.
Heck, I'm a Uni student sitting behind a firewall that blocks steam, but I invested in a VPN to make it possible to play my games here too. I don't blame steam for the inconvenience, and I don't blame my Uni either actually. It's a great concept, and I've already found it really useful since getting myself a desktop that I can have my games on both my computers, synced from the Steam cloud. Downloading games is also great, not having to worry about CDs. Although I am on a fast connection here, which makes it a breeze.
. I've used Steam for when I purchased the Orange Box, and I use it for playing Team Fortress 2 most days, which is part of the Orange Box. I've not had any problems with steam, in fact I quite like it, and I attribute people's dislikes to the usual complaints that arise against something new. It just takes getting used to I guess.Heck, I'm a Uni student sitting behind a firewall that blocks steam, but I invested in a VPN to make it possible to play my games here too. I don't blame steam for the inconvenience, and I don't blame my Uni either actually. It's a great concept, and I've already found it really useful since getting myself a desktop that I can have my games on both my computers, synced from the Steam cloud. Downloading games is also great, not having to worry about CDs. Although I am on a fast connection here, which makes it a breeze.
duxup
Prince
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I've enjoyed Steam from the very start with minimal issues. Game specific bugs unrelated to Steam have always been a larger issue since before and after Steam.
A lot of the issues concerns I've seen (some valid as the pro steam arguments) are not inherently Steam related. Make no mistake that if not via Steam plenty of software devs would be finding other ways to tightly control their software, and likely not with the conveniences that Steam provides.
I for one am quite happy with not stockpiling more CDs and keys or even the manual (third word page 43 paragraph 1) for the games I buy.
A lot of the issues concerns I've seen (some valid as the pro steam arguments) are not inherently Steam related. Make no mistake that if not via Steam plenty of software devs would be finding other ways to tightly control their software, and likely not with the conveniences that Steam provides.
I for one am quite happy with not stockpiling more CDs and keys or even the manual (third word page 43 paragraph 1) for the games I buy.
I cannot stand Steam. Here's why:
I ordered APB through Steam pre release. On launch day, I entered my key and played for a week. After that week, my key stopped working. (They sold me a beta key and not a retail key. Also, this was for 2 accounts...both got beta keys). I spent nearly 2 months trying to get a new key from Steam or RTW, but neither company was willing to do anything other than tell me to clear my cache or...enter my key. I'm no software pro, but I do build rigs for a living, so I have a grasp on the basics. Nothing I do on my side of things will magically turn a beta key into a retail key. Anyway, I called the bank to reverse the charges. (Keep in mind, this was after 2 months worth of emails, totaling around 40, about half of which got a response). My bank takes this stuff pretty seriously, but they read through all of the info I sent and had no issues returning my money.
So...Steam decided to cancel my account and take every other game that I ordered along with it. They told me that I needed to "return their money" or I would not get the other games that I paid for. Granted, I only had about $100 in games, but they took it right back. Thus, my options were to pay them $100 again to get 2 beta keys that don't actually run the game I ordered, or not pay them and bite the bullet on the $100 I spent on other games. Either way, I'm out $100. Lesson learned. If you order something from Steam and they don't give it to you, you better pay them either way or EVERY other game you paid for will be revoked. It's kind of like if you return a game or something to Best Buy, they come over to your house to reclaim everything else you bought from them. This is how Steam works. So yeah...I really don't like Steam.
I ordered APB through Steam pre release. On launch day, I entered my key and played for a week. After that week, my key stopped working. (They sold me a beta key and not a retail key. Also, this was for 2 accounts...both got beta keys). I spent nearly 2 months trying to get a new key from Steam or RTW, but neither company was willing to do anything other than tell me to clear my cache or...enter my key. I'm no software pro, but I do build rigs for a living, so I have a grasp on the basics. Nothing I do on my side of things will magically turn a beta key into a retail key. Anyway, I called the bank to reverse the charges. (Keep in mind, this was after 2 months worth of emails, totaling around 40, about half of which got a response). My bank takes this stuff pretty seriously, but they read through all of the info I sent and had no issues returning my money.
So...Steam decided to cancel my account and take every other game that I ordered along with it. They told me that I needed to "return their money" or I would not get the other games that I paid for. Granted, I only had about $100 in games, but they took it right back. Thus, my options were to pay them $100 again to get 2 beta keys that don't actually run the game I ordered, or not pay them and bite the bullet on the $100 I spent on other games. Either way, I'm out $100. Lesson learned. If you order something from Steam and they don't give it to you, you better pay them either way or EVERY other game you paid for will be revoked. It's kind of like if you return a game or something to Best Buy, they come over to your house to reclaim everything else you bought from them. This is how Steam works. So yeah...I really don't like Steam.
Steam has it pretty explicity stated that any suspected card fraud (such as chargebacks) aren't tolerated and will result in your account being disabled.
http://supportwiki.steampowered.com/wiki/Steam_Account_Disabled
I had a similar experience, but was able to get my account restored after explaining the situation out to the fine folks at Steam Support. It involved my roommate making some unauthorized purchases on my account with my card while I wasn't home at the time, which the support folks seemed more than willing to go ahead and disable the features that had been activated and released my account back to me. Needless to say, I had an unpleasant conversation afterwards with my roommate.
All in all, it sounds more likely that one of two things happened with your APB pre-release transaction:
1) You didn't pay attention to what you were actually buying
or
2) Realtime Worlds had a screw up on their end in regards to their account server
Either is likely since resolution can be had with your Steam Account problem and Realtime Worlds had a plethora of problems that lead to APB being shutdown on the 23rd of this month.
I was actually given 2 KTTC codes per account (total of 4) instead of 2 KTTC codes and 2 retail codes. Since I assumed it was due to an account server issue, I was patient. VERY patient. But I was not exaggerating when I said I sent about 40 emails to the 2 companies. RTW responded with stuff like "you must buy the game and blah blah blah", (anyone who dealt with RTW support knows what I mean here). Steam told me to clear my cache and type in the key again and again and again. I knew RTW was a lost cause, so I focused my attention on Steam, who did nothing to remedy the situation.
I know Steam's policy. It is to prevent fraud. I made it very clear to them that I made the purchase, did not get what I ordered, so I canceled the charges, but only after attempting to get support on this issue a number of times. They decided to extort me instead. The ONLY way I will get those other games back is if I pay them for those keys that were not the right keys. And if APB is really gone, that means I would need to pay them $100 for nothing all over again. Even if they did manage to get me some retail keys, it doesn't matter at this point. (BTW, this all happened a couple of weeks ago, so I'm still pissed).
Also, I did pay attention to what I ordered. I generally do not order game trials for $100. When I finally broke down and called my bank, they asked "Did you get what you paid for?" It's as simple as that apparently. I did not get what I paid for but Steam is pretty sure they should still get paid for whatever they felt like giving me.
It's not Steam's responsibility that your code didn't work, just as it wouldn't be Best Buy's responsibility if you had bought it there instead. In fact, you're told that if there is a problem of that nature you need to see the game developer/studio/provider.
In this case, you bought something from Steam, it turned out to not be what you wanted, you tried to get your money back, but tried to do so from the wrong source. Game keys don't get replaced at that retailer level, you have to go to the game creator company to get your justice.
I can see where the confusion comes into play, expecting a refund since you were attempting to bring the "merchandise" back to store (Steam). It doesn't work that way here though because you're not dealing with a physical medium of any sort, so there's no defective merchandise to be had for which to exchange with. The actual media would be available for download, you were just buying the key for which to have access to it with. So Steam (the Best Buy in this scenario) can't help you because you got the media from them and it's deemed to not be defective and can't deal with your in-game account since that's being managed by a whole different company.
The same can be said for any game out there that utilizes some form of key activation for it's game, whether that be an initial activation, a time card, or other supplementary item(s).
I'm sorry for your loss of $100, but it was not Steam's fault that your key was faulty.
In this case, you bought something from Steam, it turned out to not be what you wanted, you tried to get your money back, but tried to do so from the wrong source. Game keys don't get replaced at that retailer level, you have to go to the game creator company to get your justice.
I can see where the confusion comes into play, expecting a refund since you were attempting to bring the "merchandise" back to store (Steam). It doesn't work that way here though because you're not dealing with a physical medium of any sort, so there's no defective merchandise to be had for which to exchange with. The actual media would be available for download, you were just buying the key for which to have access to it with. So Steam (the Best Buy in this scenario) can't help you because you got the media from them and it's deemed to not be defective and can't deal with your in-game account since that's being managed by a whole different company.
The same can be said for any game out there that utilizes some form of key activation for it's game, whether that be an initial activation, a time card, or other supplementary item(s).
I'm sorry for your loss of $100, but it was not Steam's fault that your key was faulty.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
What Hyspassist and Beardy Dan said. Steam is fine, its not going to bite you.
If a code doesn't work, I can in fact return a game to Best Buy to get another copy of the game. I tried to get a new code from RTW a number of times. (I think it was around 20 emails to just them). Due to the fact that their support was a bit lacking, they continued to tell me to buy the game, which I had already done. At one point, I was told to contact the retailer, so I did. Steam told me to clear my cache. That is all they would tell me. They would not give me a new code, nor would they refund my money. RTW would not refund my money as they did not sell the game to me. Additionally, their support did not speak English, so relaying my key issue was no small feat. (I am not attempting to sound ethnocentric. RTW support for the U.S. was in India and the many times I "spoke" to someone via chat, I got copy/paste responses that had nothing to do with the issue, so I am guessing that there was a language barrier).
The merchandise in my analogy was not defective. It was, however, missing. I also have to disagree with you in that I do believe that it was Steam's responsibility to issue a new code. Their merchandise may be intangible, but as a retailer, they should have some responsibility to ensure that they delivered the correct merchandise. They had multiple keys. They gave me the incorrect ones. I was asking that they give me the correct keys, which they would not do. They only attempted to fix an issue that was entirely unrelated to my problem.
Steam is horrible.
1. I buy my games from shops in DVD. I do not download them. Steam shop doesn't help me at all.
2. I have to run Steam program before I can start game. It slows starting game a lot. For CiV 5 I spend more time waiting Steam than Civ 5 to load.
3. If my net is down or I download using all my bandwidth I can't start games.
4. Steam seems to like start updating without asking me and I can't play before it has updated. When there is 1 GB updates it really sucks that it doesn't ask. Download progress bars seem to be really messed up in Steam. I would much rather download my updates on separate files myself so I have control of how and where to do it.
5. Steam is useless against piracy. It is actually pushing me to pirate games since then I would get rid of Steam.
6. After buying couple games Steam is in position where it can blackmail me with threats of disabling ALL my games without any way to stop or complain about them. That happened to mjamie14 and will probably happen more and more often since there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop them.
7. At any time Steam can stop supporting any game and make it stop working. I want to buy games, I don't want to rent them.
1. I buy my games from shops in DVD. I do not download them. Steam shop doesn't help me at all.
2. I have to run Steam program before I can start game. It slows starting game a lot. For CiV 5 I spend more time waiting Steam than Civ 5 to load.
3. If my net is down or I download using all my bandwidth I can't start games.
4. Steam seems to like start updating without asking me and I can't play before it has updated. When there is 1 GB updates it really sucks that it doesn't ask. Download progress bars seem to be really messed up in Steam. I would much rather download my updates on separate files myself so I have control of how and where to do it.
5. Steam is useless against piracy. It is actually pushing me to pirate games since then I would get rid of Steam.
6. After buying couple games Steam is in position where it can blackmail me with threats of disabling ALL my games without any way to stop or complain about them. That happened to mjamie14 and will probably happen more and more often since there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop them.
7. At any time Steam can stop supporting any game and make it stop working. I want to buy games, I don't want to rent them.
duxup
Prince
- Joined
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They blackmailed someone? and you think they're going to blackmail you?
Are they asking you to commit crimes or collect a debt for them or they'll cancel your account?
Read posts of mjamie14. He is blackmailed for 100 dollars and he has no one to appeal to.
aukrest
History Buff
I don't really use it except to play games that require it. It's annoying, but I could see how someone could be happy with it.
It should be possible to buy game from Steam of course but it should also be possible to buy game from store and never need net connection.
They didn't blackmail me. It was more along the lines of extortion since no crimes were committed by either party. It is their policy to cancel your account if there is a chargeback. However, I didn't realize that this, combined with their "no refund" policy, gave them the right to not deliver on orders, take your money regardless, and tell you to stick it. It is my policy, (as a consumer), to get my money back if I paid for something and didn't get it.
For anyone who has to use Steam for a game, your best bet is to open a different email account for each game you order. This way, if a game doesn't work and Steam will not give you a refund or a replacement, you can do a chargeback and not lose everything else you have paid for.
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