March Patch Notes (formerly february)

Status
Not open for further replies.
nice patch but one thing made me say "uh? WTF?"
Railroads nerf. As many people say it's already really not worth it at all, a harbor is so much better, with the minimum of 3 tiles between cities:
3x2=6
harbor maintenance=3

I mean railroads should be BUFFED not nerfed, and i'm not talking about 1000000% bonus but just, let's say 1.5 maintenance or something.

Anyway keep going, i hope the next improvement will be AI.
The better military evaluation is music for my ears however you should also consider past wars and amount of GGs too IMHO, this to allow a more quality rather than quantity estimation.
Also i really like the expiring denouncements :D
 
The AI will get a lot less mileage than I will out of Culture and Food buffs, a free Settler or a free GS/GE.

I'm assuming you mean there are non-algorithmic uses involved, since specific build orders are easy to program. I can't actually think of anything crazy here.

a) Babylonian slingshots with free GS in meritocracy, which they slowed down by tech tree changes
b) Capture cities, reach industrial era, raze and rebuild using representation and get communism quickly. But that's 12 cities with new city spacing rules, you won the game anyway.

Let's not forget multiplayer. Since the best strategy is still to grab honour and chop rush the best early unique unit and go smash someone, you need to elevate other policies to compete.
 
I am confused:

Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

So does it increase or decrease?
 
I am confused:

Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

So does it increase or decrease?

For every city you get a smaller culture penalty...

I like the changes for the direction they're heading, though I think they took the wrong direction.
Their goal is to make small empires as good as large ones. I can see the good things about it, but I agree with Sulla that it's an empirebuilding game. The goal is to have the largest empire, though you should still be able to win with a small one.
Just as in civ4.
And no, I'm not a 4.5 type, I like many of the things implented in ciV, they're just poorly excecuted.
(spelling might be wrong)
 
I am confused:

Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

So does it increase or decrease?

Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

Long explanation:
If you found a new city, it will permanently increase your SP costs by +33%. With Representation, your next social policy will not be affected by this new city. But all future policy gains will be counting that city in as well.

Lets say you are 7 turns away from a social policy. Lets say you also have 10 settlers ready to place 10 new cities. If you have Representation, the new 10 cities won't affect the policy cost for the next one. It will still be completed in 7 turns. After that, the 10 cities' modifiers (10*33%) kick in.
 
Significant turn time improvements.
Better be -.- My system is way too good for the wait times in the late game, even on standard maps.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high...

User warned if about to declare war on a city state that is under protection of a major power
Sounds good on paper, but what moron plans a war with a CS w/o seeing who the ally is first? So it's just one more spam notice to click through, great.

CS being under protection of a major power and being allied to someone is NOT the same thing. You can see the ally by looking at diplo overview or whatever and see who's allied with who or just by clicking on the CS, but you can't see who's protecting who. So the "moron" is pretty much everyone who's not playing with a piece of paper and a pen writing down every "X is now protecting Y" and "X has taken back it's guarantee of protecting Y" notices... ;)

The way it should work is, if the AI is friendly with you and hostile to the civ you killed, they should like you more. If they're friendly with you and neutral with them, there should be no change. If they're friendly with both, they should like you less. Oh by the way, I still see no added options to make the AI friendly with you, including what should be obvious things like "you agreed to help us in our war." Yeah, you'll still get no credit for doing that. Then called a war monger when you succeed. then denounced by the civ that asked for help in the first place.

I agree. :D

Denunciations expire after 50 turns
Declarations of Friendship expire after 50 turns

Because it's not already hard enough to try to keep track of who is friends with who.

Get InfoAddict. :D

What does "in cities placed on tradition branch opener mean"? Does that mean that it only applies to cities which were placed when the policy was unlocked. Seeing as this is the base policy it basically only means the cap. Although it does seem that going liberty=>tradition is a viable option now.

You're just reading it wrong. It's not "in cities placed...", it's "culture border expansion discount in cities" ...is... ""placed on Tradition branch opener"". I blame the lack of commas (or not enough of commas) to be the biggest reason of misunderstandings such as this. You wouldn't really, if at all face such problems in Finnish or Russian texts. :D
 
I love it -

1 - Civ5 was a xmas present.

2 - Civ5 patch 1 was another xmas present.

3 - Civ5 patch 2 yet another xmas present.

Keep them coming.

I like the sound of the diplo changes, I like the Social Policy changes, granary changes and especially the addition of an Aqueduct (Hospital will not be worth building).

Staying happy on Deity has allways been a challenge, now it will be even more difficult, due to the reduction in happiness from happy buildings.

I also see hammer production as being a major problem for large cities as pointed out by other knowledgeable forum members.
 
Well the buildings actually providing base :c5production: is good, but I'm not sure if that +7 base :c5production: is going to outweigh an extra +50%. Let's see...

A city with base 10 :c5production: with +115% will get 21.5 :c5production:, and with the new yields will have a base of 17 and get 28.05 :c5production:. A city with 30 :c5production: currently gets 64.5 :c5production:, but will instead get 61.05. The point where production starts to be better under the current system would seem to be at 25 base production.

Hmm...not as bad as I thought, actually. That's reasonably high. But it would seem to run counter to the emphasis being placed on larger cities; the larger your cities get, the more they are disadvantaged under this new system.

Don't forget about the mine buff - if a city has just three mines, the break even point is higher at 33:c5production:.
 
Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

Long explanation:
If you found a new city, it will permanently increase your SP costs by +33%. With Representation, your next social policy will not be affected by this new city. But all future policy gains will be counting that city in as well.

Lets say you are 7 turns away from a social policy. Lets say you also have 10 settlers ready to place 10 new cities. If you have Representation, the new 10 cities won't affect the policy cost for the next one. It will still be completed in 7 turns. After that, the 10 cities' modifiers (10*33%) kick in.
And I would understand it as such:
Each city you own increases policy cost by what, 20%?. Now, with Representation, each city YOU build, increases the policy cost by 20%*1/3. Which is ~7% instead of the usual 20%. But cities you annex for example do it by the old 20% (if I remembered that % correctly).

edit: but it says policy not policies, so you know, whatever.
 
Thanks for publishing the upcoming changes. I'm gladly looking forward to play using them and believe the veterans when they say, that most of them are good.
 
Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.

Long explanation:
If you found a new city, it will permanently increase your SP costs by +33%. With Representation, your next social policy will not be affected by this new city. But all future policy gains will be counting that city in as well.

Lets say you are 7 turns away from a social policy. Lets say you also have 10 settlers ready to place 10 new cities. If you have Representation, the new 10 cities won't affect the policy cost for the next one. It will still be completed in 7 turns. After that, the 10 cities' modifiers (10*33%) kick in.

I'm wondering if this is true.

Small example:
Your next SP is going to cost you 1000 cultural points (cp).
You have accumulated 900 cp and you're making 50 cp each turn.
So, it would take you two additional turns to unlock that SP.

Founding a new city would make the costs of the new SP now become 1334 cp, meaning an increase of 334 cp. Now you would have to wait 9 turns.

I understand that sentence that the increase actually will be 330*0.667 => 220 (actually, it would be 220.11 cp, so rounding may play some role here, too).
So, founding a new city will make the next SP more costly, but not as much as without Representation.
You would have to wait now for 7 turns.

Otherwise, it would have been much easier to say: "Doesn't increase the costs of your next Social Policy".
 
That's the reading as I see it. Future cities only adding a 7 percent increase instead of a 20 percent one. Of course this only applies to self founded cities.

I must say that one serious concern in making liberty and tradition a must have double dip is that the ai is not allowed to use both branches unlike the player. This was less of a problem when all of the best branches were in Renaissance or later. Now it can be seen as a subtle and accidental ai nerf.

Another thing to mention is that moving so much direct yields to buildings really takes us away from any concept if city specialization and towards spamming every building in every city. It also subtly improves ics by making every single plot a viable city location since you are not dependent on tiles.

I agree with the above poster about the ugliness of tying trademroute gold to capital pop. It vastly increases the value of a high food start and seriously hurts Arabia and Russia who have flavors that spawn them in lower food locations

Until they address research agreements and great scinetists I really doubt this will cause less 1700 launches. The tech slow down was needed but it fails to address the 2 largest holes in tech rushing.

Overall I would call this patch a step forward and a sideways stagger. A lot of gloss but still not addressing many of the core game problems deal
 
Significant turn time improvements.
I am happy to hear that. :)
Buildings
Aqueduct added (entirely new building). 40% of Food is carried over after a new Citizen is born.
Palace boosted to 3 gold and 3 production
Granary gives bonus 1 food for Wheat/Banana Deer; cost reduced
Market and Bazaar provide 2 gold (as well as +25%)
Workshop provides 2 production (bonus reduced to +15% but affects ALL production); cost increased
Windmill now has a +15% production modifier (for buildings only) and provides 2 production
Stable gives bonus 1 production for Sheep/Cattle/Horse and can be built with Sheep or Cattle; cost reduced
Lighthouse gives bonus 1 food for Fish; cost reduced
Ironworks dropped to 8 production (but earlier in tech tree now)
Factory requires Workshop; add 3 production but boost now just 25%; has 1 more specialist slot (now 2)
Nuclear and Solar Plants now require Factory but increase to production is now 35% and provide 4 production themselves; these two now mutually exclusive
Hospital adds 5 food (but no longer retains food), requires Aqueduct
Forge adds +1 production to each source of Iron
Reduced Armory maintenance to 2 gold
Seem to be reasonable changes. Hopefully they'll improve the gameplay.
Policies
Tradition: Culture border expansion discount in cities placed on Tradition branch opener. Discount increases over the course of the game. Also grants +3 Culture in the capital.
Aristocracy: Wonder bonus reduced by 5% to 20%.
Legalism: Provides a free Culture building in your first 4 cities.
Oligarchy: Garrisoned units cost no maintenance, and cities with a garrison gain +100% ranged combat strength.
Landed Elite: +15% Growth, and +2 Food per city.
Monarchy: +1 Gold and -1 Unhappiness for every 2 Citizens in your capital.
Liberty: +1 culture per turn in every city.
Collective Rule: Settler production increased by 50%, and a free Settler appears near the capital.
Citizenship: Worker construction rate increased by 25%, and a free Worker appears near the capital.
Representation: Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less. Also starts a Golden Age.
Order: Reduce Order production bonus to 15%.
Meritocracy: +0.5 Happiness for each city connected to the capital, and a free Great Person of your choice appears near the capital.
Good changes. Oligarchy needed to be nerfed while Liberty policies needed some boost.
Doubled culture from kills for Aztecs
That would make Aztec UA a bit useful. BTW they are not changing Ottoman UA. Why ? :(
 
MULTIPLAYER
Can now use DLC civilizations in multiplayer
Added Ring, Skirmish and Ancient Lake maps to MP.

Excellent! However.. I was really hoping they would have done more.
Specifically working on the end turn move.
 
I must say that one serious concern in making liberty and tradition a must have double dip is that the ai is not allowed to use both branches unlike the player.

The AI isn't allowed to use both tradition and liberty? News to me. Where's that written?

I think the ping-pong between tradition and liberty is kind of funny. Originally tradition was really bad and liberty was the way to go. After the first major patch, liberty was almost useless while tradition got a major buff. Now liberty will be much better again. Tradition is still okay, but Oligarchy is nerfed hard. Looks like liberty is on top again.
 
So, if I am reading this right, does this mean a OCC India will never have unhappiness ever?

The one OCC India game I played I never went into unhappiness. This was with out any happiness buildings as well.

All this really translates to is India having more excess happiness than before. It may make mandate of heaven OCC India overpowered but the patch is not out yet so that's all hypothetical.
 
There has been some confusion about the Representation change:

Each city you found will increase the cost of your next Policy by 33% less.

For me that means, the penalty you get on your next policy by founding a new city, will be reduced by 33%...
 
The tradition liberty thing is in the policies XML file. There is a special rule that stops the ai from using both
 
And I would understand it as such:
Each city you own increases policy cost by what, 20%?. Now, with Representation, each city YOU build, increases the policy cost by 20%*1/3. Which is ~7% instead of the usual 20%. But cities you annex for example do it by the old 20% (if I remembered that % correctly).

edit: but it says policy not policies, so you know, whatever.

Or to put it more simply, Representation lowers the penalty for every subsequent city you build. That's it. Numbers above are correct.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom