Civilization elimination thread

eisforeccentric · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 23 (+1)
Austria 0 (-2)
Aztec 25
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 15
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 23
Huns 20
Inca 23
Iroquois 16
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 25
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 13
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 23
Polynesia 10
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

I always have fun when I play as Arabia. The Bazaar is my favorite UB out there, and if I need oil in the late game, the UA is a big help.

Broken UA is broken record. Austria must go.

JtW · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 22
Austria 2
Aztec 25
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 15
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 23
Huns 20
Inca 23
Iroquois 16
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 26 (+1)
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 13
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 23
Polynesia 8 (-2)
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Polynesia: their UA is totally unrealistic - you can have diplomatic relations with civilizations on the other side of the globe in the stone age, if you play them. I find it breaks the immersion.

Maya: I love their UB and how it feeds into my religious/cultural playstyle. And the Long Calendar Count is just cool!

zyx · Aug 25, 2012

Bakspatel said:
I liked the structure of the wonders topic so I don't see much reason to make major adjustments - so all credit goes to Zyx.

Thanks. Yet a lot of the credit goes to civnoob13, who started a wonder elimination thread 2 years ago, I more or less just resetup one.

maurcus · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 22 (-2)
Austria 2
Aztec 25
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 15
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 24 (+1)
Huns 20
Inca 23
Iroquois 16
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 13
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 23
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Arabia, I usually don't trade my resources to the ai so no

Greece, ever played a normal map size as Greece setting it to 40 city-states?

Mesix · Aug 25, 2012

maurcus said:
America 16
Arabia 21 (-2)
Aztec 25
Babylon 22
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 15
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 24 (+1)
Huns 20
Inca 23
Iroquois 16
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 13
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 23
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Arabia, I usually don't trade my resources to the ai so no

Greece, ever played a normal map size as Greece setting it to 40 city-states?

Corrected the tally...eisforeccentric contribution was left out (eliminating Austria and adding a point to Arabia), and marcus forgot to subtract points from Arabia.

Haphaz · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 21
Aztec 25
Babylon 22 - 2 = 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 15
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 23 + 1 = 24
Iroquois 16
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 13
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 23
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Playing Inca around a mountain range is a blast, with their cheap/free roads and multi food bonuses (gold can be a bit difficult mind). I have the most fun playing them. Babylon has been nerfed a bit by the change to the GS bonus.

Bakspatel · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 21
Aztec 25
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 20
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 15
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 24
Iroquois 14 -2
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14 + 1
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 23
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

I don't find the UA, UB and UU very interesting of the Iroquois and I never seem to get along well with the AI.

The Netherlands needs some love. Their UA is great, Polders are totally awesome and I just love to terrorize the oceans and coastal cities with the Sea Beggars. They actually made me being more focused on naval combat than terrestrial combat.

Bakspatel · Aug 25, 2012

Thanks. Yet a lot of the credit goes to civnoob13, who started a wonder elimination thread 2 years ago, I more or less just resetup one.

Alright, thanks for the info =)
Two years ago is a while back, I don't even know if that poster is still active. So if you don't mind I'll just let your name on it.

HelloGoodbye123 said:
I havent voted, but are we voting for civs we like? or civs we like because they are powerful?
and for dislike, are we voting for civs we dislike, civs we dislike because to weak? or civs that we dislike because we lose against them too often?

because i feel this thread is a bit innacurate when i see some ppl voting down a civ because its either weak, OR wayyyy too powerful .. which makes no sense !!!

also, vote after every 24 hours?
so the same ppl can come and re vote up the same civs and vote down the same civs? lol

Well the idea is to give a proper reason why you are voting for that civ. It has to be about in game reasons that must have some logic in it. So downvoting because of hate towards a particular nation/people doesn't count and neither is upvoting a nation/people because you like them. In my last post I upvoted the Netherlands, but not because I'm from it but because I think they are a good civ in G&K and that they deserve to be around a little longer. I don't see them reaching the top 10 but 30+ would be ridiculous. Well in my opinion

So the base of your voting has to be based on your ingame experience: not owning a DLC isn't valid (after all, how can you rate something that you do not own?) and hate towards a civ because you would have preferred over a different civ doesn't count as well. Just try to give as much arguments as you can.

I do expect some maturity from people and that (at least in the early stages) they will not constantly up- and downvote the same civs.

I've also seen some posts in which the replyer didn't provide any arguments, I'll let the previous ones go but in the future in my opinion any post without arguments can be ignored.

And thanks to those who keep an eye on the flow of the topic and spot accidentally skipped votes =)

Liegence · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 21
Aztec 26
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 15
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 24
Iroquois 14
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 23
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Aztecs - fun to play! Awesome early-game unit that holds promotions and a +food building. Excellent! I love 'em and I love to hate 'em when they're against me.

Celts - UA not worth much more than a free pantheon and gets worst as the game rolls on. UU is nice in the early game but suffers later b/c of bad upgrade path. UB looks like it would be great, but G+K happiness is easier to come by and by being a higher tier building it's difficult to build for a REX and puppets are unlikely to ever build it so it's less useful in conquests.

Rooftrellen · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 21
Aztec 26
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 22
Denmark 11
Egypt 16 +1
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 24
Iroquois 14
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 21 -2
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Egypt just does well for me. The UU has helped me dominate early from time to time and the UB is great for happiness. I don't want to do two votes the same way in a row either, so too bad for Carthage today.

I just don't tend to get much mileage out of Persia for some reason. Uber GA's scream awesomeness, but I seem to never get much out of it compared to other UA's.

not owning a DLC isn't valid (after all, how can you rate something that you do not own?)

I figured that it a civ added nothing to my game, it would be a valid reason for downvoting if other civs did. I won't downvote the DLC civs from here on out, but that means I will ALWAYS be downvoting a civ that gives me more fun and entertainment.

Tachii · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 21
Aztec 27 (+1)
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 22
Denmark 9 (-2)
Egypt 16
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 24
Iroquois 14
Japan 20
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 21
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

No way Polynesia and Germany is worse than Denmark. It has to go. The UA is often useless unless it's a water-focused map. Berserkers extra movement is nice, but that's all, while Askia has every unit with Amphibious. :/ The rifleman is also lackluster. Bonus on hills is the only relevant bonus, since most fights won't be on Tundra/Snow unless you're playing a specific map type.

Still +1-ing one of my fav civs to play, Aztecs.

PhilBowles · Aug 25, 2012

Tachii said:
No way Polynesia and Germany is worse than Denmark.

In gameplay strength? Germany certainly isn't. In sheer fun, both to play and as an opponent (a valid gameplay consideration)? Denmark's way ahead of the pack.

It has to go. The UA is often useless unless it's a water-focused map. Berserkers extra movement is nice, but that's all, while Askia has every unit with Amphibious. :/

You only need to play Denmark a couple of times to realise just how much stronger it generally is to be able to land, attack, and defend on land than to attack from the water and be still stuck in the water next turn (although being able to sit under a melee ship for protection is an asset), particularly since you can also do so with ranged/siege.

I'm not sure how many have played Denmark here, but be aware that you keep the movement of an embarked unit the turn when you disembark - which means that with Denmark's +1 movement for being embarked, every unit has +1 movement when it moves onto land. Embarked movement is also usually faster than ground movement, and moreso with Commerce. So you can land a 2-move (on land) catapult and still have 3-4 moves left with the unit, so you can move as well as set up and fire.

The rifleman is also lackluster. Bonus on hills is the only relevant bonus, since most fights won't be on Tundra/Snow unless you're playing a specific map type.

Last time I played Denmark I didn't seem to get the hill bonus. I'd agree it's not a great unit, but a rifle UU is by its nature pretty good, it's longer-lived than the Berserker, and sometimes you will get the bonus.

Tabarnak · Aug 25, 2012

America 16
Arabia 21
Aztec 27
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 22
Denmark 9
Egypt 16
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 5
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 24
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 20
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Persia : Awesome civ with Chichen Itza. Golden ages are stronger under G&K making this civ more appealing.

Japan : Good warmonger, but the problem is...there is nothing else useful with this civ.

PhilBowles · Aug 25, 2012

Tabarnak said:
America 16
Arabia 21
Aztec 27
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 22
Denmark 9
Egypt 16
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 3
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 24
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Polynesia 8
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Deutschland, Deutschland unter alles. The civ isn't weak, but I don't find unit spam interesting either to play or play against, it's one of those civs that has nothing to it but warmongering, and I don't think the barbarian effect is either well-implemented or well-chosen for Germany. To top it off, Bismarck is annoying as a rival.

Siam: Still the most versatile civ in the game to my mind, and I like the fact that maximising the UA tends to take effort. Although with the new resting influence system, pledging to protect + Patronage can give you permanent friendship with CSes you aren't focusing on, which is very powerful and elevates Siam well above Greece, whose slow influence drop is weakened relatively speaking both by the resting influence system and the greater ease of obtaining and maintaining influence post-G&K, and which gives you no particular advantages for maintaining influence with CSes.

Monthar · Aug 25, 2012

PhilBowles said:
I'm not sure how many have played Denmark here, but be aware that you keep the movement of an embarked unit the turn when you disembark - which means that with Denmark's +1 movement for being embarked, every unit has +1 movement when it moves onto land. Embarked movement is also usually faster than ground movement, and moreso with Commerce. So you can land a 2-move (on land) catapult and still have 3-4 moves left with the unit, so you can move as well as set up and fire.

This is exactly why I'm confused at all the Denmark hate.

PhilBowles · Aug 25, 2012

Monthar said:
This is exactly why I'm confused at all the Denmark hate.

People look at Danish UA. People think Denmark's weak and/or uninteresting. People don't play Denmark as a result. People come onto the thread and point out how weak Denmark is... Not helped by Harald's consistent underperformance as an AI reinforcing that impression.

GThreepwood · Aug 25, 2012

America 17
Arabia 21
Aztec 27
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 22
Denmark 9
Egypt 16
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 3
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 24
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Polynesia 6
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

America : As a warmonger i was stunned how America worked out as a great civ. I like the ability, and the units are very nice. I prefer buying tiles as soon as i settle a city to claim more land so the ability is useful to me. Minuteman are very mobile riflemen and they can shift really fast from one side of the battlefield to the other. The B17 is also very very powerful.

Polynesia : Don't like the improvement, and the Maori warrior is downright useless. Ability is good for water maps, but gets obsolete at some point of the game...

Buccaneer · Aug 25, 2012

America 17
Arabia 21 + 1 = 22
Aztec 27
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 22
Denmark 9
Egypt 16
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 3
Greece 24
Huns 20
Inca 24
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 20
Maya 26
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Polynesia 6 - 2 = 4
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

I found Arabia to be a superb civ to play as (and a good opponent to play against, usually). I feel Camels were every bit as dominant as Keshiks (I've conquered with both) and probably a bit better due to the promotion. Plus they get Bazaars.

I found very little value playing as Polynesia, even on an island map. After getting the 12th ruin or so, the ruins become nearly irrelevant and Poly doesn't have the power to fight. They are also too passive to play against, not conquering at all and not expanding very well either.

DGDobrev · Aug 25, 2012

Actually, Polynesia is great for maps when you want to uncover all civs for early RA's. The thing is, on higher difficulties that tactic just doesn't cut it, as you have a ton of things to think about. Not to mention that nothing beats the early GS of Babylon or Mayans, or the research boost from Korea after you build Library and University. I'd leave GL out as on higher difficulties AI always builds it before you.

However, I must say that I managed to get 6 RA's on Immortal at the same time after education with Polynesia, which was the best one I ever got (7th was at war with me, and signed peace after I spent all my cash on RA'S

). So there is actually some wicked usefulness to embarking on water tiles right away. A scout + your initial unit circling the Pangea will let you uncover every civ early on.

EEE_BOY · Aug 25, 2012

America 17
Arabia 22
Aztec 27
Babylon 20
Byzantium 23
Carthage 21
Celts 18
China 22
Denmark 9
Egypt 16
England 17
Ethiopia 18
France 22
Germany 3
Greece 24
Huns 20-2=18
Inca 24
Iroquois 14
Japan 18
Korea 20
Maya 26+1=27
Mongolia 17
The Netherlands 14
Ottoman Empire 20
Persia 22
Polynesia 4
Roman Empire 20
Russia 20
Siam 21
Songhai 16
Spain 14
Sweden 23

Can't think of a way to play the Huns except early war, perhaps if hanging garden still has 10 food, then the Huns may have a chance of peaceful play.

Maya is the most adaptive civ and most fun to play. Either wide or tall, peaceful or war, the long count calendar GE ensures i get one of the crucial mid game wonders that fits the chosen strategy.

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