Sick of people making excuses for 2000 years of peace

Status
Not open for further replies.
It genuinely sounds like people are having wildly divergent experiences with the AI. I wonder why that is. I've only played 3 games so far, one for each in King/Emperor/Immortal, and I've never failed to have a war. And in all these games, they kept declaring war some time after the peace treaty was over.

In my latest game, both America and the Ottomans declared war on me by turn 53 because I was aggressively expanding near them. And this was only on King too.
 
cakes said:
2/3 of my games have been war games

if you really want war then declare war yourself or bump the difficulty up. it is an unfortunate common belief that if something is wrong then it must be the fault of the devs
Click to expand...

I don't really think that anyone is blaming the devs. They merely dislike the feature, and expect the devs to be one ones to fix it.
 
I've had some very interesting developments in the game I'm playing. There has, indeed, been less war, though I faced early plots from both my neighbors. Instead of fighting it out, I reloaded and bribed Germany to attack both of them (Celts and Inca). I was friends with the whole world except those two for much of the game.

By the time the ideologies are up and running, the Celts and Inca have both gone Freedom with me and have turned friendly. Germany (by far the strongest army) has gone Order and is taking a beating from my tourism, and my diplomat alerted my the has was sending an invasion fleet my way. I manage to get a defensive pact with the Celts (along with Venice and Sweden for more than 100 turns, though they're farther away) and together we await the Germans.


To my delight, he's sent his army to make a landing exactly at the city I was told, with his fleet screening for the units. My units are few in number and outdated, but he'll have a surprise when I pop the ideology in a few turns to grant 6 free units. After breaking the peace, he's gone happiness negative.

I'd never has expected such a scenario to happen before. I don't think I've ever gotten a defensive pact to work once in 200+ hours of game time. Now I've got 3, and a 4th likely to come. I've always felt like the AI was kind of schizophrenic, but this whole game I've been able to develop lasting partnerships.

Going to war can penalize a civ in many areas-gold, science, happiness. It just means that one has to weigh the risks and the rewards very carefully now. I strongly prefer this system.
 
I am playing my first game and have definitely found a difference. Everyone is friends with each other with no hint of a war. It does give you time to concentrate on other aspects of the game, whereas in Gods and Kings I would be playing and getting DOW'd constantly by the AI. In my opinion Gods and Kings had too much war and BNW has too little. I am sure this will be balanced with a patch though, and the game is great as a whole. We just need that little bit more aggression from the AI. Maybe 15% or so.
 
Simplicity2 said:
It may be that there is a problem, but I am definitely not seeing it in my game. I think it has to do with the map settings. I'm playing standard King continents and war is everywhere. I've seen multiple naval invasions even.
Click to expand...

I've had actualy a game same settings king continents where the AI didn't declared war at all only in late game really wierd this mechanic has proparly to do with trade routes
 
sanchopanda said:
I wouldn't say that the AI is totally broken, but it would be nice to have some more aggression, especially in early eras. It would be nice as well, if tall empires would produce some more units to defend themselves, especially Brazil. In half of my games I had Brazil as "ally" and in all of those games I had to defend Brazil (to protect my trade routes). They had much gold, a good score, but nearly no units. Culture and Tourism is useless, if you are going to be steamrolled :)
Click to expand...

Wrong! Brazil played way smarter then you think!
They didnt need an army, because they had a strong buddy to protect them (you).
Excellent play from the AI!

GhostSalsa said:
I've played G&K for a year as an aggressive conqueror who goes after the strongest AIs to get their wonders and to narrow the victory field. I deprioritized conquering my belligerent neighbors until mid-game because, after destroying their invading armies, they were hobbled anyway and would be easy pickings for mid-game.

I don't like turtling. But I like AI aggression.

Even if I didn't retaliate-conquere every time, early aggressors still had a role to play in pressuring my build-order from turn one and giving me something to do before Artillery.
Click to expand...

You have played so many games wherein you have proven that attacking you is a bad mistake. Now you say the AI has gotten worse because it stoped making that mistake?
About 'not knowing what to do': its your own fault if you play every game the same and get bored that way. Try new strats.

kiwimaster said:
It genuinely sounds like people are having wildly divergent experiences with the AI. I wonder why that is. I've only played 3 games so far, one for each in King/Emperor/Immortal, and I've never failed to have a war. And in all these games, they kept declaring war some time after the peace treaty was over.

In my latest game, both America and the Ottomans declared war on me by turn 53 because I was aggressively expanding near them. And this was only on King too.
Click to expand...

Yep, thats the small sample size. The average players gets an average ammount of wars. But some people get more and some get less. The game is out for a few days only, so people played only a handfull of games, so statistical extremes seem like a prove, which they are not. If such a 'extreme peace' game hits someone whos is waiting for the game to follow the one and only routine hes used to and wants to see, and if that person was never been taught patience, they rant here and call for patches.

Everyone just calm down, wait a month and enjoy the change :)
 
BSPollux said:
You have played so many games wherein you have proven that attacking you is a bad mistake. Now you say the AI has gotten worse because it stoped making that mistake?
Click to expand...

Tell that to the four or five times I lost to early Greek or American rushes in G&K???? Honestly.
 
I took out two civilizations and a city-state early on, and then 50 turns later, I get dogpiled by 12 out of remaining 15 civilizations. The AI conserves its wars just to eradicate the scourge of the world (me).
 
JanghanHong said:
I took out two civilizations and a city-state early on, and then 50 turns later, I get dogpiled by 12 out of remaining 15 civilizations. The AI conserves its wars just to eradicate the scourge of the world (me).
Click to expand...

I've attacked Arabia, conquered two of their cities, but didn't accept their peace proposal when I was on the verge of taking Mecca - they offered nothing. Refusal to accept peace seemed to rile the Siamese and Ottomans (other two on the continent), who both instantly DoWed me. Thing is, neither of them attacked me. They didn't need to I guess. Buenos Aires city state sent in a massive army and razed Medina to the ground. Manila attacked from the south, while my ally, Monaco, just sat and watched. I just about held them off and took Mecca to get the 4 wonders that I wanted. Arabia takes peace, but Siam and Ottomans still having none of it several turns later. Buenos Aires still taking shots at me. Meanwhile, Recently discovered Venice has just been captured by the Assyrians, meaninig I'm going to have no one to trade my luxes to very soon.

It's certainly a different experience.
 
BSPollux said:
Wrong! Brazil played way smarter then you think!
They didnt need an army, because they had a strong buddy to protect them (you).
Excellent play from the AI!
Click to expand...

Nice try :). I thought the same and reloaded the game just to confirm or disprove my thought. They lost at the first attack of Casimir.

Most of the time I did not really protected him. My protection was to use the 1UPT mechanic and block the enemy units.
 
I've played 2 games on immortal standard pangaea, both had no early wars in them. My last game as Poland i was squished up against Sweden/Spain/Portugal i had 1 single spearman and 3 cities, Spain finally backstabbed me around turn 180 but by that time i was so far ahead of tech i squashed her armies. Ended up turn 247 diplomatic Victory. ( diplo is brokenly easy/fast, i may have to start disabling it )
 
Well, I just quit a pangea game that had plenty of bloodshed. Incans annihilated Babylon, and in turn were obliterated by Hiawatha. So many wars I lost count.

And that was only a King.
 
Well, for my part, in the only game of BNW I've played that's lasted passed the Renaissance, there has been a decent amount of war. Not quite as much as I remember, but then I was stuck on a continent with a bunch of civs who all decided to go tall, as did I. So there are still huge tracts of unclaimed land. A couple of wars broke out, mostly between Carthage and Korea; Carthage also wiped out England.

Now, once I got Astronomy and found the other continent, things changed. I met Napoleon first, then Monty, then Alex, then Gustavus and Atilla! And their continent is smaller than the one I started on. There are some wars going on over there. I seem to have arrived just as Atilla began a conquering spree, he seems to be absorbing Sweden atm.
 
I've had early wars <t100 in all of my games. Monty Dowed me at t28 because my great merchant took the city state between us when I played as Venice. if you think the AI is too passive push your borders out and take advantage. The only peaceful game I've had is a scontenients game but even in that game Attila, lizzy, and Poland have been at constant war while Hawaii becomes a tourist paradise.
 
Simplicity2 said:
It may be that there is a problem, but I am definitely not seeing it in my game. I think it has to do with the map settings. I'm playing standard King continents and war is everywhere. I've seen multiple naval invasions even.
Click to expand...

Same here - Prince level, continents. On other continent Pacal, Monty, Saladin and Suliman have been warring with each other since the classical era, some border cities have changed hands (or been razed)...

On my continent I suppose it could have stayed very peaceful, I was intending to see the new culture victory. But Isabellas attitude + Shoshone grabbing all my favorite city spots + 3 Military CS Allies gifting me new Siege equipment = kill someone. (Does Anyone actually like warmongers BTW? all I see is the negative diplo hit for it...)
 
The problem isn't necessarily with the peaceful civs being more peaceful. Nor is it that civs no longer go berserk if you provoke them in the slightest, i.e., exist next to them.

The major problem is that Civs who are designed to be aggressive before the Renaissance build up significant armies then do little to nothing with them frequently; not just against the player, but against anyone. It makes sense for the Dutch or the English to be cautious early on. It did not make sense, as demonstrated in this thread, for Rome or the Huns to be doing absolutely nothing with their unique units.

It seems like the level of aggression around turn maybe 100-120 is fine, but not around level 50-70. Which, considering a lot of Civs have unique units geared for that time period, is a problem.

EDIT: Of course, I just lost a game as England where I rushed Great Library -> Petra, which was great until at turn 115 (on Epic) Shaka, my nearest neighbor, attacked me with a force of maybe 15-20 archers and spearmen. So still some early aggression.
 
almost finished a Diplo Carthage game....Washington and Pocatello have a little phony way every few hundred years, no territory changes hands, Gustavus has taken Panama and Ormus and just declared war on me and marched in with 7 Caroleans, a few Knights and 2 Cannons, prompting Harun to attack him too.

AI does seem more placid and more prone to playing tall but not to any game-breaking degree
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
Two of my allied city-states are at war with each other
Replies
2
Views
324
martindo
M
ThermobaricPunch
Multiplayer desyncs (loading screen between turns) and weird bugs
Replies
1
Views
863
coolhandluke11
C
R
Few questions about vox populi and more
Replies
1
Views
315
Yerltvachovicic
Yerltvachovicic
mastrude
Civ V Calculator Nerds
Replies
0
Views
344
mastrude
mastrude
M
defense treaty
Replies
3
Views
241
martindo
M
Top Bottom