I'm finally watching Star Trek Enterprise. In my experiences, everyone has said this was the worst Star Trek series out there and it's a good thing it was abruptly ended. However, I'm finding it to be the opposite. I'm nearly on season three and this is actually turning out to be my second favourite series (Nothing can beat my beloved DS9). For those who disliked the Enterprise series, what made it terrible for you?
Enterprise was great. A lot of people moaned about season 3 because it was one season with one grand overarching plot, but I rather liked it. Season 4 was just brutally awesome. Perhaps the best single season of trek of any series. Manny Coto shined. Pity they cancelled it at it's apex, but that's TV and scifi. FYI it was simply called "Enterprise" in season 1. They later changed it to Star Trek: Enterprise for the later seasons. Also FYI, the one thing I didn't like was them mixing up the intro song after season 1. I thought the more simplistic version in seasons 1 was best.
Speaking of intros... and slightly spoilerish, so I shall put it in spoiler tags. An opening intro to a 2-parter in season 4:
I saw the last ever episode of Enterprise. I didn't mind the Riker/holodeck plot, but the writers being too lazy to actually write Archer's Federation commencement speech was extremely disappointing.
Yeah, and I didn't even really like that they felt they had to frame Enterprise in TNG for the ending, but most shows have crappy series finales, so I'm not going to hold that against Enterprise overall.
(Remember, in US speak, a series is the entire show for its whole run length. A season is one year (typically) of the show.)
I thought that Babylon 5 did the Babylon 5 plot better than Deep Space 9.
Although I have a soft spot for Voyager and I know that's unpopular with a lot of Trekkies. I still put TNG on the top because that's what got me into scifi along with the original Star Wars trilogy.
I watched the first two seasons and part of the third of Enterprise but they changed the time they were showing it and I missed the season premier of the forth and I just fell out of the show. I want to go back and finish it sometime.
Hmm, seems like the CFC crowd likes Enterprise. That is pleasing. On one side, I can't wait for seasons 3 and 4 but on the other hand, I don't want to have it just suddenly end... Ah well. I've started reading ST novels and just finished Strike Zone, so I guess the literature can keep me afloat once I'm finished.
That reminds me, here's a question, why do so many sci-fi TV shows have such god awful first seasons? I mean, TNG was the trope namer for growing a beard, Farscape was boring as hell and I gave up after about 5-6 episodes (I've heard it gets much better, which is completely believable, but I've just never got round to trying again) B5 didn't pick up till season 2 (when, admittedly, it became the best sci-fi show ever), DS9 has a pretty poor begining (I forget exactly how long it lasted, I watched it when it was 1st on TV, which was some time ago...), when, much like B5 S1, it was just "generic stuff happens on a space station", and so on.
Because it takes some time for the director, editor, producer, and actors to build some rapport with one another and to get a feel for what the show is and how it should be presented. Most television shows start with a grand vision by a writer or producer, and it takes some time and experimentation for that vision to be converted into a format which works for tv. Many shows never get that conversion at all.
That, and it sometimes takes actors a while to get into their role as something they do naturally rather than force. I know Michael Dorn, the man who played Worf, really liked his time on DS9 because he had already gotten used to the role of a Klingon and wanted to develop the character more now that he knew who that character really was.
All of what Owen said, plus the fact that scifi shows are building a world/universe that is distinctly less familiar than the real one and so it's a more difficult task. Scifi has always struggled to be more than just B-level entertainment and hasn't always received the best personnel and resources to tackle the challenge.
I like Enterprise and certainly more than Voyager. Not sure how much I like it in relation to the other ST series though. Coincidentally, I'm actually watching my way through Enterprise now, I'm in season 2 or 3 (can't remember).
I wish they had been able to show the Romulan war and i also wish they had shown more meaningful contacts with alien species. what I mean is that in later series, it is established that a bunch of alien species are in teh Federation. It would have been awesome if Enterprise had shown more first contact or interspecies relationship-building episodes. Most of the species they introduced were either antagonistic and never show up outside of Enterprise (the Xindi) or are one or two show throw aways (they are in an episode and never seen again).
I really like how they treated the Andorians though, we go through how the entire human/andorian/vulcan relationship developed into what it is in later series. Wish they had done that with more species.
Also, more peaceful exploration would have been cool. It seems like half of the 'exploration' episodes end up with Archer + redshirts stranded on an alien world and/or int he middle of an alien civil war. It always ends in bloodshed.
I've talked to a lot of offline people (anecdata!) who don't care for the cast as much as the other Star Treks, in particular TOS and TNG. They particularly hate Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok, Neelix, and even Janeway gets dumped on. 7of9 was oft called "sexy Data" since they both had the discovering humanity character development arc.
I didn't find the characters as stiff and monochromatic as they did relative to other Star Trek series (because let's face it, they recycle a lot of stuff and growing a beard is basically Riker's character development for most of TNG). There are characters I like and dislike all over the place, even in the beloved TNG--I'll take about any Voyager character over effing Weasles "McD-bag" Crusher.
Where Voyager really shined, I think, was making the ship a bit more believable. They have to take the engines offline for maintenance, for example, and they have a night shift that actually does stuff (and it's not always the proper captain on the bridge). That, and by setting the story so far away from Earth they were able to recreate that classic exploration and discovery feeling that was kinda missing with DS9.
Rewatching Enterprise as well recently, only at the end of the 2nd season so far though. If you leave out the temporal cold war and the 2 or 3 episodes that dont fit in with the rest of the cannon its a decent Trek series.
Its the second time I watch it, as I remember the I didn't like the Xindi arc at all. The show seemed to get into its own in the 4th season from what I recall.
In short, lots of potential, bad execution.
This. It often comes towards the end of the first season or mid-way through the second, depending on the particular cast and crew. I distinctly remember B5 kicking into gear in episode 13 of Season 1. I remember waiting for The Coming of Shadows to end so I could rush to the bathroom, and that sequence towards the end where the battle-crab materialises out of nowhere damn near made me piss myself. Then they hit the ground running in Season 2 with Londo's political alliance with Refa, the assassination of the President, Sinclair being replaced, etc..
It's almost as Joe Straczynski got angry at DS9 for stealing his bible and decided to prove he could out-write them without any outside assistance. One guy writing 3 whole seasons of a television show has never been done before or since.
Mostly this. I just never fell in love with the main characters and there was this happy family theme going around which really could annoy the crap out of me. TNG also had its dose to some degree, DS9 did too. But VOY exceeded it all by light years in my memory.
Yet Riker did for instance the outstanding episode where he was kidnapped and declared insane and acted it well. An accomplishment I could not imagine for anyone of the VOY crew. Maybe they had more character development and were less stiff than in TNG, but change and flexibility didn't make them a wee bit more interesting IMO.
Also existence of a night shift where no Picard nor Riker would be there was mentioned, while not explored much if at all
Back to Star Trek -
The technobabble employed to solve (or cause) every plot problem in Voyager makes it nearly unwatchable for me now. When I was 12 or 13, Voyager was my favorite of the series as I had seen the others but kind of came of age with Voyager, much like Antilogic.
However, it didn't age well with me, I went back and tried to watch the series again as an adult (few months ago) and the technobabble got me.every.single.episode. Can't stand it - yes, I know it's in all ST shows/movies, but Voyager takes it to a ******ed extreme.
BTW - totally agree with VRWCAgent, Season 3 of Enterprise is pretty awesomesauce!
Mostly this. I just never fell in love with the main characters and there was this happy family theme going around which really could annoy the crap out of me. TNG also had its dose to some degree, DS9 did too. But VOY exceeded it all by light years in my memory.
Yeah, if you didn't care for the characters, then it's hard to get into the series. I think that's the real draw for me to watch TOS--given that I grew up with much more modern sets and a style, the visual aspects and sound effects of TOS are much more grating to me than to a pre-TNG fan. But you watch it for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
Yet Riker did for instance the outstanding episode where he was kidnapped and declared insane and acted it well. An accomplishment I could not imagine for anyone of the VOY crew. Maybe they had more character development and were less stiff than in TNG, but change and flexibility didn't make them a wee bit more interesting IMO.
None of these statements are absolute for all the series, I think there were good character development episodes scattered throughout in all of them (although they tend to concentrate in the later seasons).
I just really hate Weasles.
Also existence of a night shift where no Picard nor Riker would be there was mentioned, while not explored much if at all
Oh, I remember a mention of it here and there (and one scene where Picard and Riker are talking in the halls about 6-hour or 8-hour shifts for some reason), but there's not a lot of effort to develop and use that. Plus, at least Picard or Riker always seemed to be on the bridge if not both, so did they have 12-16 hour shifts?
Back to Star Trek -
The technobabble employed to solve (or cause) every plot problem in Voyager makes it nearly unwatchable for me now. When I was 12 or 13, Voyager was my favorite of the series as I had seen the others but kind of came of age with Voyager, much like Antilogic.
However, it didn't age well with me, I went back and tried to watch the series again as an adult (few months ago) and the technobabble got me.every.single.episode. Can't stand it - yes, I know it's in all ST shows/movies, but Voyager takes it to a ******ed extreme.
BTW - totally agree with VRWCAgent, Season 3 of Enterprise is pretty awesomesauce!
Dude, how many times did effing Geordi LaForge remodulate the frequency of the main deflector dish to solve Every Problem Known to Spacefaring Man? Seriously, if I were designing a Star Trek ship, it would have like 20 main deflectors pointing every which way and dozens of extra remodulators.
Just once, I wanted to see a TNG episode where the remodulators were hit or sabotaged and they couldn't escape with a main deflector dish trick.
In any case, I think TNG was a little worse with technobabble than Voyager, but I haven't watched the two series side-by-side in years so I'm not sure if its selective memory.
Voyager, for me, shined with the two parters: Scorpion (introducing 7 of 9); Year of Hell (with acquaintance and curmudgeon Curtwood Smith) and of course the series finale.
Otherwise, it was meh.
DS9 ruled until the finale...
TNG's best thing was Three of the four films. The last film was Awesome.
Never saw Enterprise.
Loved the original series. Absolutely loved the films, save for #1 (yawn) and #5 (Spock's brother? Please!)
Yeah, if you didn't care for the characters, then it's hard to get into the series. I think that's the real draw for me to watch TOS--given that I grew up with much more modern sets and a style, the visual aspects and sound effects of TOS are much more grating to me than to a pre-TNG fan. But you watch it for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
True that Though I personally also kind of dig the narration style of TOS. Something about it, very hard for me to put into good words. Wouldn't want all of ST to be in that style mind you , but some is nice.
Voyager, for me, shined with the two parters: Scorpion (introducing 7 of 9); Year of Hell (with acquaintance and curmudgeon Curtwood Smith) and of course the series finale.
Otherwise, it was meh.
DS9 ruled until the finale...
TNG's best thing was Three of the four films. The last film was Awesome.
Never saw Enterprise.
Loved the original series. Absolutely loved the films, save for #1 (yawn) and #5 (Spock's brother? Please!)
I loved the Voyager multiparters, I remember all of those episodes you mentioned.
DS9 has never beat B5 in my book.
As far as the movies go, I really liked the TNG movies (shockingly, all of them, I didn't understand why people didn't like the odd-numbered TNG movies), although I feel the Abrams reboots are a bit too comical for me. I laughed at Spock yelling Khan and a bunch of other stuff that probably wasn't supposed to be funny.
Dude, how many times did effing Geordi LaForge remodulate the frequency of the main deflector dish to solve Every Problem Known to Spacefaring Man? Seriously, if I were designing a Star Trek ship, it would have like 20 main deflectors pointing every which way and dozens of extra remodulators.
Just once, I wanted to see a TNG episode where the remodulators were hit or sabotaged and they couldn't escape with a main deflector dish trick.
In any case, I think TNG was a little worse with technobabble than Voyager, but I haven't watched the two series side-by-side in years so I'm not sure if its selective memory.
I said it was a problem in all the series, but you've definitely got some selective memory going on. I watched through all of the TNG seasons a couple of years ago (still an adult) and I noticed the technobabble, of course. The difference is that Voyager goes into epic details about their space magic and throw out fifteen different made up words in a string. In TNG it's usually much more toned down. It's there, it may even be there at comparable levels to Voyager (I don't think so but I'll go along for the sake of argument) but it's not so in-your-face. It is absolutely in your face in Voyager and it ends up getting in the way of the plot because if your even moderately scientifically literate you wind up focusing on it because they won't let it go.
One thing that grates me about all ST shows is that they never really show you what a Federation ship is capable of in combat very well. The ship is either horribly outmatched or can smoke anything that comes within a lightyear. Often, both cases are true, even within the same episode and with the same enemy! I think Enterprise (the show) in particular has this issue; especially during the Xindi arc or whenever the Suliban come up. They can either kick the crap out of their adversaries or they are completely trounced. It can be jarring though some episodes they play it off very well such as when they jerry-rigged the phase cannons to overload (which saved them but caused massive damage to the ship).
Probably DS9 was more consistent than the other series in this regard when it came to the war in the last 2 seasons, though of course they used mismatch between Coalition and Dominion ships as a major plot point (the Dominion with the Breen could handily disable almost all the Coalition ships save for a handful of obsolete Birds of Prey the Klignon's had). But other than that, they were overall more realistic I think in that they showed both sides winning and losing more on the circumstances than on who had the stronger space magic in that particular engagement.
One other thing that gets to me is the transporter. It's awesome but how many times was it made useless due to the unobtanium in the cave walls the away-team was exploring? Take away the unobtanium and the transporter would work and take the away-team out of danger; end of episode. I know it was done that way to create the conflict in the plot to begin with, but it was always heavy-handed. Enterprise (the show) suffers from this in particular because in the 1st and 2nd season there were numerous instances where the Captain gets involved in some civil war or shenanigans and is trapped because the shuttle can't land because reasons but they never even mention the frakking transporter.
Edit: Totally agree with you on your assessment of ToS. I can't really watch it for that reason even though I want to.
I thought the last couple of TNG movies kind of sucked, in particular the last one. First Contact was freaking awesome though!
I watched both and I never found them very similar other than the basic setting you mentioned.
Well I suppose both stations played a key role in a grand political and military struggle (shadows / dominion) and the DS9 wormhole kinda mimicked the B5 space jumps (important so that all the action can come to you if being on a station you can not come to it).
Hm... well perhaps Bajor is a bit like those B5 reptile people (Narn was the name I believe) and Cardassia a bit like the Centauri. But not much really. Just that the Centauri were kinda imperial and the Narn got sacked.
First officer is a tough woman.
Doctor in ST is brownish and in B5 black
You see I am already going on a limp here.
Even better, the shuttle you will later see in Galileo 7 simply wasn't delivered in time and they had to improvise.
They supposedly figured having them vanish in a ray of light is the next best thing to just having them appear on the planet.
No better way to pad a 1 hour TV drama than to spend 1 minute giving a genuinely long passcode
I'm always genuinely impressed when the technobabble mostly kind of makes sense. TNG did that really well.
Also, the console recorded one of the numbers/letters wrong.
lolololol did you seriously play that back and pick out one of the numbers was entered wrong!
Haha I don't know why that's so funny considering I'm not much better - arguing about ST while watching ST on Netflix while ignoring the paper I'm suppose to write that's not about ST.
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Though I personally also kind of dig the narration style of TOS. Something about it, very hard for me to put into good words. Wouldn't want all of ST to be in that style mind you 
, but some is nice.
