MOO2Civ

First off: welcome to the thread!

I'll discuss some of your ideas (and hope others will jump in as well), but not all as I'm currently mostly concerned about practical implementation, so I'm limiting myself to those aspects.

Minor Annoyance said:

So in the civ combat system defencive equipment really should effect offence the same. That would be boring though if every promotion just added a percentage bonus to all combat then there would be no difference between taking a weapon promotion or a shield or armour promotion. So I'd have to think in terms of what different effect a weapon or system would have when the unit is advancing vs. when it's stationary.
To get the customization of your ships feel of MOO. I'd have most equipment and weapons be promotions for units. The unit themselves I was thinking would be available with a new engine technology combined with either a new armour type. A new power source and stronger hull material seems like good prerequisites for a new ship model. It's probably best to still have carriers, missile ships, and transports rather than promotions that give them those abilities.

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That's basically already the case. However, I don't think I can really agree with your offense=defense approach. In Civ2 there was the ADH (attack-defense-hitpoints) system, which has been simplified in Civ4 to basically 1 value (combat strength), although promotions can still increase offense, defense or strength in general.

I'm skipping your remarks on ships systems (the more advanced systems like Quantum Detonator, Black Hole Generator, Stellar Converter, Hard Shields, etc. still need to be implemented...), racial traits and including actual Marines, because I generally agree with this.

Minor Annoyance said:

Shields I thought would be difficult. I've already gone over why defencing systems having no effect when you attack didn't work for me, but I though about it and in this case it might! You might remember in MoO2 if you didn't move a ship it recharged it shields faster. So the ship that is charging in to attack would have weaker shields. So while it should increase strength overall, it should also have a defence bonus. I'd also give each shield a first strike chance, the reasoning being that superior shields gives you the chance to do damage without taking any and that's exactly what first strikes do. Remember how shields didn't work in nebula in MOO? Well having all enhancements from shields have a disadvantage in nebula that cancels them out. Except for first strikes because I don't think you can remove them do that. Hard shields would add some of the nebula strength back along with standard shield enhancements. Shield capacitors increased recharge rate so they should probably even out the offencive abilities of shields.

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This, basically, comes back to the offence=defense stance you're taking. In Star Trek for example, a ship's energy can be diverted to different ship systems (life support, propulsion, shields, weapons systems), which basically explains why offence doesn't equal defense: if all energy is diverted to shields for instance, weapons are useless. (If shields are down or damaged, they need recharging time: this doesn't effect offense, but does effect defense.) Unfortunately in Civ4 the weapons-armor-shield definition of MOO2 can hardly be replicated. (In MOO2, if armor=zero, the ship is destroyed; in Civ4 a ship is destroyed if overall strength=zero. Obviously, the MOO2 combat mechanic is more sophisticated...)

Minor Annoyance said:

If you steal anything from Fall from Heaven it should be the unit capturing mechanic. People loved that in MOO2. Also it would give something for the particle weapons to do if there is nothing else do make them different. Achilles targeting unit, tractor beam, transporters, troop pods, could all add chance to capture a defeated unit. Then you could let any ship "lightbulb" technology like great people can. They could only lightbulb the tech that is needed to build them so it wouldn't be useful for the player that builds the ship, but if you capture one you can't build you could scrap and reverse engineer it to get new technology. That could also be a way to get Antarian technology.

The Quantum detonators effect could be implemented by using the code for Pyre Zombies from Fall from Heaven, but it's probably not worth the effort.

Time warp facilitator would be the same as the blitz promotion.

Subspace teleporters would work great using the paradrop mechanic.

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These ideas I like in particular! (They also look like the most practical to implement.)

Alright, now I'm back to work. (I'm currently making a list of Moo2 Civpedia/tech quotes to be included, which due the amount of time required probably won't make it into Patch4, but a list of what is in will be included.)

Once again, any practical help is appreciated!

JEELEN said:

so far unable to add 3 more of Deon's LHs, which keep appearing as purple rectangles or seem to present a wrong pic (Sauron).

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They have right format, I playtested them.
Write here the artdefines path and folder placement of .dds files, I'll tell you what's wrong.

I changed the LH definition for the 2nd LH in the Art\Leaderheads folder, then as well in the XML\Art\CIV4ArtDefines_Leaderheads file.

(Mmm... I just remembered I didn't exit the mod before checking if they display correctly, so maybe that's it. I'll try again.)

Well, I've got Cassandra in now, but still having trouble with the Menz Agitat and Sauron LHs...

Anyway, woodelf's models will be in the patch too, if Keldath's testing shows no problems.

Deon, any progress on the Tech List you started?

Minor Annoyance said:

I also like the idea of having actual ground units defend and invade planets like was mentioned somewhere.

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This may actually not be too difficult: I've begun to suspect that the FF map actually is a sea map. (The fact that colonies can only be founded on Stars, the presence of Stealth Ships that can't capture or defend colonies plus the mention of "extends view over sea" - with Astro Construction, I think - are clear clues to this.)

YES! MOO mod at last
I've just played moo3, funny I bump into this.
thank you JEELEN.

woodelf said:

A lot of people use Word or something. I use XML Marker, free and idiot proof.

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Woodelf, your a saint
I was using wordpad, like an idiot...

You're most welcome! (Both to the thread and Civfanatics Center.)

The mod was originally started by NCCSavage (as you might have noticed), but despite the name it's not quite finished: currently Patch4 is being prepared for release (which will include alternative Leaderheads and the first models).

Finished a survey of the tech-tree (with prereqs) on paper. I may add this to 1st or 2nd post for reference. Meanwhile here's a screenshot from an advanced testgame:

Finished Tech Tree. Patch4 is encountering some delays...

EDIT: MOO2Civ Tech Tree survey attached to 1st post.

Meanwhile, deanej has posted his FF Flat map - which has been playtested for Standard, Large and Huge size - and will definitely be included in the patch.

Also, MOO2Civ Patch3 now has 400 downloads!

And MOO2Civ itself is now at 1300 downloads!

In MOO you would miniaturize ship equipment as you researched ahead of it. I was thinking a way to do that in civ could be to have a national project several techs ahead of the Shield I for example that was called something like "standardize Shield I", that when completed would give that promotion for free to any unit built.

Sorry for the delayed reply, but I've been rather busy elsewhere lately (and off-line too). I think it's an interesting idea and I have given the current Promotions setup some thought, but it will not be addressed until after Patch4, unless someone provides some practical help with that.

On that note, you may have noticed Patch4 isn't up yet, partly because two esteemed contributors have come down with the notorious Exam Fever (and I don't want to do work that's basically already done just to release the patch). Which is a bit of a problem as I intend MOO2Civ (Patch4) as a full install.

Anyway, since the release as is will not be released for a little while yet, there is room for practical suggestions to be implemented when it will be.

Once again, sorry for the delay.

Darn, almost forgot: here's a screenshot form an advanced test game of the working version of MOO2Civ (Patch4):

I've been trying for some time to edit any one of the available map(scripts) in order to add one or two scenarios to Patch4, but each time I load the WBS file all stars and planets are gone. (Have tried FF, FF Flat, Star Trek, Star Trek Flat, Spiral Galaxy...) Have no idea what in MOO2Civ is causing this, so at this point I'm stuck...

Any suggestions?

Hm. I got an additional promise for units to be delivered... After waiting all weekend with nothing happening, I think I'll try and implement the units myself and upload MOO2Civ (Patch4) next weekend - if the units are ready or not. (If not, there may be an additional unit patch later.)

Well, after much delay (and extensive playtesting), here it is:

MOO2Civ (Patch4) FULL INSTALL

Most ambitiously - but not intending any disrespect - MOO2Civ (Patch4) is meant to supersede the original MOO2Civ; which is why it is a FULL INSTALL: so no more copying of FF mod or manual installation of files - just download and unzip, and you're ready to go!

Check it out here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9532

Status Report

Current issues:

- certain leaders do not display First Contact text - which is available in-game
- woodelf's models could not be included in time - they'll appear in Patch5
- in the Patch4 Readme file two Mrrshan LHs are listed - Darquan is obviously a Darlok leader

And, just as obviously, there still remain lots of things to add to the mod. Will keep you posted!

I've reloaded MOO2Civ (Patch4) FULL INSTALL, as it didn't appear as a new upload. In addition I've added some more screenshots.

Those who have already downloaded it: this is the same file.

DL Page changed to: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9532

I thought I missed something in the reload version,and finally figured it out: I've attached some Playing Hints to the DL Page.