CDG Series Discussion Thread

beetle · Feb 20, 2016

I want to propose a Denmark map for April 15th.

I rolled one that works, but it is the TI script -- so maybe too much land.

Proposed Achievements:

Domination VC w/o training archer line, 2pts. Any scarcher/CS archer gifts can only be used for city garrison.

Train 6+ Berserkers and keep them alive to the end of the game: 2pts

Taking cities w/ Berserkers before Gunpowder: 1pt ea., 10 max.

Taking cities w/ Ski Infantry before Replaceable Parts: 1pt ea., 10 max.

Melee attack an inland city starting w/ embarked units: 1pt for the lultz

Wild_Woojsha · Feb 23, 2016

beetle said:
I want to propose a Denmark map for April 15th.

I rolled one that works, but it is the TI script -- so maybe too much land.

Proposed Achievements:

Domination VC w/o training archer line, 2pts. Any scarcher/CS archer gifts can only be used for city garrison.

Train 6+ Berserkers and keep them alive to the end of the game: 2pts

Taking cities w/ Berserkers before Gunpowder: 1pt ea., 10 max.

Taking cities w/ Ski Infantry before Replaceable Parts: 1pt ea., 10 max.

Melee attack an inland city starting w/ embarked units: 1pt for the lultz

Well, that sounds good, but its still February!!!!! :crazyeye:

I like how it is exactly 25 points though, that is good. I see nothing to disagree with, but I don't think it needs finalized now, we have 2 months and 3 games to release prior to this one. I don't know what Terra Incognita does, but I hope it can provide heavy tundra and heavier lakes. Cold, wet, deep lakes! I really want to abuse the UU's, both of them.

beetle · Feb 23, 2016

TI main page can be found here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=384109

It was used for DCL Japan. I am glad to have the time to keep rolling. My maps so far have been too sprawling.

Wild_Woojsha said:
...but I hope it can provide heavy tundra and heavier lakes. Cold, wet, deep lakes! I really want to abuse the UU's, both of them.

I have been focused on continents-like maps, but I like your idea better. So I will try rolling some great lakes maps. I will have to change up the opponents though. The free harbors, for example, don't mean much to Carthage on a lakes map.

Blatc · Feb 23, 2016

I'd like someone to take a quick look at my Brazil map to make sure it'll work for everyone. I'd posted a map previously that Consentient said he couldn't open. If you're playing in the CDG and also have that issue (Map packs or whatever it is), please PM me and let me know how I can send you the file.

Wild_Woojsha · Feb 24, 2016

vadalaz said:
The disembarking ability could be fun to abuse on a Lakes map, perhaps with seas for bodies of water. Lakes map is really good for domination in general.

beetle said:
TI main page can be found here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=384109

It was used for DCL Japan. I am glad to have the time to keep rolling. My maps so far have been too sprawling.

I have been focused on continents-like maps, but I like your idea better. So I will try rolling some great lakes maps. I will have to change up the opponents though. The free harbors, for example, don't mean much to Carthage on a lakes map.

I stole the idea from Valadaz on that one, most large lakes are better than oceans for early domination since they can be crossed before astronomy. Tundra is only for the ski infantry, I love skiing and think it would be good to finish cleaning up the map with those. Carthage might still benefit on this map though, possibly. I am not sure though, anyone know if harbors work in enclosed seas?

Wild_Woojsha · Feb 24, 2016

Blatc said:
I'd like someone to take a quick look at my Brazil map to make sure it'll work for everyone. I'd posted a map previously that Consentient said he couldn't open. If you're playing in the CDG and also have that issue (Map packs or whatever it is), please PM me and let me know how I can send you the file.

The best way to avoid this is to go into DLC and uncheck the map packs on the DLC. I finally broke down and bought the rest for under $5.00 before Christmas, but not everyone has that option and its a huge ripoff when not 75% off. You can uncheck as much DLC as you want, all the way down to Vanilla CIV V!!!! It's fantastic, and then you create the map under those checked settings and save it and all is well.

beetle · Feb 24, 2016

Blatc said:
I'd like someone to take a quick look at my Brazil map to make sure it'll work for everyone... If you're playing in the CDG and also have that issue (Map packs or whatever it is), please PM me and let me know how I can send you the file.

This is a tricky request because the Explorers Map Pack (which I have, because it was free) is different than the Scrambled Nations one. Both cause some people problems. I could tell you if you used Scrambled Nations (because I don't have that one) but I cannot tell if you had Explorers Map Pack disabled. Unless you intentionally took the time to check, it spoiled the map for sharing, because it is enabled by default every time you restart Civ. You need a volunteer that has neither Explorers nor Scrambled.

Wild_Woojsha said:
Carthage might still benefit on this map though, possibly. I am not sure though, anyone know if harbors work in enclosed seas?

The UU might be relevant, but civs with later naval UU are out because the UUs will be over produced and are mostly useless on small seas. Harbors work on enclosed seas, only for cities on the same sea. A human player might do okay by running roads/rails between cities on a couple different enclosed seas, but I wouldn't expect AI Dido to be that clever. She's out.

Not to give too much away, but Askia (UA) and Monty (UB) are in for sure. I had planned to skip Venice, but on a lakes map he might be okay. Do people want warmongers or soft targets or a mix? Also, I am planning for Raging Barbs.

beetle · Feb 24, 2016

beetle said:
I call dibs on Portugal.

I am going to retract this offer for now. My vague idea was to make the Feitoria key to victory. Since I now know that they work even while at war, maybe DomVC? But that would have to be late, and the UU is not much help. A map where it all came down to gold generation might be interesting too, but given the money buffs the Deity AI get, I cannot image what an Economic Victory would look like.

Any ideas for making a map all about the gold, but not just a dull SS Procurements SV or Diplo VC?

Blatc · Feb 24, 2016

beetle said:
This is a tricky request because the Explorers Map Pack (which I have, because it was free) is different than the Scrambled Nations one. Both cause some people problems. I could tell you if you used Scrambled Nations (because I don't have that one) but I cannot tell if you had Explorers Map Pack disabled. Unless you intentionally took the time to check, it spoiled the map for sharing, because it is enabled by default every time you restart Civ. You need a volunteer that has neither Explorers nor Scrambled.

Alright, I need a volunteer that has neither Explorers nor Scrambled.
The map is ready, I just want to make sure everyone can play it before getting into achievements.

gobbledydook · Feb 25, 2016

Ironfighter's map was great fun. Opened up a different approach to science victory.

Blatc · Feb 27, 2016

Tentative achievements for Brazil CDG game.

Suggested victory: Culture

A. Build* as many as you can of the following World Wonders: Sistine Chapel, Globe Theatre, Uffizi, Louvre, & Broadway
*hard-build or GE; conquering does not count
a) 1 = 1 point
b) 2 = 2 points
c) 3 = 3 points
d) 4 = 4 points
e) 5 = 6 points

B. Spread your religion! Points based on # of cities following your (self-founded) religion
a) 3rd most popular religion = 1 point
b) 2nd most popular religion = 2 points
c) most popular religion = 4 points

C. Produce, through any means, the following number of Great Writers/Artists/Musicians:
a) at least 3 each = 1 point
b) at least 4 each = 2 points
c) at least 5 each = 3 points
d) at least 6 each = 5 points

D. Enjoy 100+ turns of Carnival = 3 points

Maximum of 18 points from achievements

Starting location

Spoiler :

Shark Diver · Feb 27, 2016

Did you mention what type of map this was?

I like the bonus point structure, but shouldn't there also be bonus points for speed of victory?

Regarding the starting location:

Spoiler :

Blatc · Feb 27, 2016

Map is pangaea, all standard settings.
I considered a speed of victory achievement, but we don't always need that to be one of the achievements. It could also be counter-productive, as I think a top Culture player would have to debate between getting maximum points for some of the listed achievements and finishing faster.

Shark Diver · Feb 27, 2016

Fair enough. I certainly am not one who gets max points for quick finishes and I've made the same argument regarding speed of victory vs likelihood of victory. I know some have pulled off ridiculous CV finishing times and I'd love to read a good write-up on how.

I recently wasted some time trying to roll a perfect Brazil start. I didn't come up with anything as nice as this one portends to be. I am looking forward to this.....especially after the marathon Spain game I'm trying to finish up.

gobbledydook · Feb 27, 2016

A very production heavy start it looks like. Growth may be a problem, might need to use internal cargo ships. Sistine is achievable if you rush Acoustics, but then Globe Theatre would be a stretch. If you can actually complete Globe Theatre, then Uffizi shouldn't be a problem. Louvre isn't hard at all, and you should be first to Radio for Broadway anyway.

100 turns of carnival means Freedom is good. Maybe Order is superior?

The GWAM should not be an issue if the religion is strong, maybe some war is needed to destroy the religious civs?

Grendeldef · Feb 29, 2016

Blatc said:
I considered a speed of victory achievement, but we don't always need that to be one of the achievements. It could also be counter-productive, as I think a top Culture player would have to debate between getting maximum points for some of the listed achievements and finishing faster.

If it wasn't already obvious I'll say it again - I oppose pretty much all scaleable by speed achievements but I'd welcome some binary incentives like achievement(s) will be worth nothing unless the game was won by Txxx or achi A is obsolete if condition Y wasn't met by Txxx etc.
The purpose for that would be firstly to avoid overly long games just for the last achi point as almost everything is possible if given nearly endless time and secondly to plan ahead something that might not come up on a regular game ie 'how much can I derail from the usual path & still finish before Txxx' and I'll gladly admit that while the variations of the 2nd point may not be of general interest to the masses it is the part that still keeps me playing.

beetle · Feb 29, 2016

Thanks Blatc for the Brazil map!

I am up next. I want to propose Denmark for 15th instead of Byzantium. I rolled a pretty good lakes map that I think is more fun than what I have so far for Byzantium.

Any objections, discussion? We have a couple weeks.

Wild_Woojsha · Feb 29, 2016

beetle said:
Thanks Blatc for the Brazil map!

I am up next. I want to propose Denmark for 15th instead of Byzantium. I rolled a pretty good lakes map that I think is more fun than what I have so far for Byzantium.

Any objections, discussion? We have a couple weeks.

I was going to suggest you do this anyways, byz can wait. I have no objections and am looking forward to skiing around.

beetle · Mar 1, 2016

I could not open the Brazil map. So I rolled another Byzantium map and got one that was the most interesting so far (not OP, interesting).

So now I have two maps that are worth sharing, and it seems a shame to make one wait a month. How about a double header?

Domination is designated VC. Proposed revised achievements for Byzantium map follow, all point values conservatively borrowed from previous CDG.

Wreak havoc with the UU (16 points available):
- Clear your continent with mostly only the UU, 4 points.†
  †Starting warrior (may be upgraded), Scouts, scarchers, CS gifts are all okay. No turn limit, so UU may be upgraded too.
- Taking cities with only the UU, 1 point each.‡
  ‡Stacks with the above. Must be before you unlock either Compass or Chivalry. CS are fair game if you like. Capped at 10 points max, but we’ll see if anyone gets close to that!
- Build or purchase 5+ of each UU, 1 or 2 points.*
  *Keep them in battle and alive until victory. You can upgrade them, obviously.
Religious Domination (12 points available):
- Get a Reformation belief, 1 point.
- Fill out Piety, 1 point.
- Each rival Holy City converted at the end of the game, 1 point each.
- End the game with yours as World Religion in the WC, 2 points.
- End the game with your religion as the most populous, 2 points.
- End the game with your religion in half of all cities, 4 points.

Blatc · Mar 1, 2016

beetle, we posted earlier in this thread about guidelines for future maps to try and keep the series cohesive. Have your views on achievements changed?

beetle said:
I think fewer achievement points might, in general, be better. The Zulu game only had ten available -- and only two points for finishing before T200, which is a difficulty thing to achieve.

beetle said:
^^Agreed, I am just suggesting ~20 points as a nominal upper bound rather than 25. If you consider that some of the Assyria achievements were mutually exclusive, ~15 points is available for 3 of 6 games. Not that six games is a conclusive sample, but if we try to keep the points in a more limited range, it will be easier over time to compare games, including which were easier based on average scores.

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