CFC TG1: Calling All Settler, Chieftain, and Warlord Players

Ping. Sorry that I've been a little slow, but I'm still here. I guess it's just the three of us for now.

Whose turn is it, anyway?
 
Aye Sindri Pink, just pick up the game and play a round.

For now we're in build up and consolidation mode until we get to astronomy. IMO its a good idea to go for the new and improved national wonders as a next goal, and to grow our cities by building granaries/watermills (more pop = more science).

Do we also want to begin building up the military for a next war already? Its probably cheaper to build units now and upgrade them later, but then we pay unit maintenance. I'm not much of a warmongerer, so I'm not sure how to best prepare overseas invasions on a continents map.
 
I've done some warmongering at my lower levels of play. It depended on having a notion of how strong my neighbors were and starting a slow build of units to beat them. Once you have enough for the first neighbor, you keep a steady stream that replaces any casualties/garrison units that happen. In Civ 5, the goal seems to be to really minimize unit losses so that you can continue the invasion with the already built, and now promoted, units. Units are slow to build and you have to keep ahead of your invasion plans.

Being isolated like this really throws me off. On lower levels I have built infrastructure and saved up money. Then, when reaching Astronomy, I bought myself a start of a Military while building the rest. I don't know if we are going to be all that crazy rich at this level.

Without looking at the game, I offer this thought. Keep expanding and building infrastructure to support our mighty army. Look at how many turns it would take to build our strongest unit (on average across the cities). When we are about that many turns from Astronomy, cue up military units. Save enough money to buy one or two Caravels right away when we get the tech. As the Caravels start revealing who is nearby and weakest, fine tune the military we are building with extra siege or horses or whatever. Then let loose the dogs of war. Otherwise, if we really don't like what we see out there, adopt plans as needed.

I would normally be leery of building granaries and watermills. In the age of nerfed Maritime City States and given our isolation, they may be a good idea. A major goal right now is to grow like cancer as fast as our happiness will let us. I really worry about someone out there in the fog getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
 
Sorry for the delay, but I'm finally playing my turnset now. I'm coming up on a new policy and was wondering what our plans are. Should we continue with Patronage or go back to Honor to prepare us for future wars? I'll play my remaining turn as soon as I get some answers.
 
I'm not sure what policies we still have to get in Honor. Think we agreed to take the double exp one, but skip on the garrisons and the one after that (cheaper upgrade for military units).

In my turn I opened up patronage only because we have enough cash to start allying with some city states, and the slower influence decay will help save cash in the long run (also at that time we didn't have any alternative really. I didn't want to open piety in case we would decide to go for rationalism later). IMO we don't need further policies in patronage for now, its a good tree but if we want to continue a war game then we have better alternatives :)

In particular, I think commerce would help us. It has a nice synergy with the national treasury (if we build that in Rome). I'd say to go for the right side of that tree: cheaper road/railroad maintenance, cheaper buying of units/buildings and finally extra happiness.
 
140
- Knight defeats barb Spearman.

141
- Cumae +1 :c5citizen:
- Same Knight clears barb camp near Lhasa, frees one of their workers => +30 :c5influence:. I give them 250 gold => +30 :c5influence: and friendship (and +6 :c5culture:) for 40 turns.

142
- Nothing

143
- Our Golden Age ends

144
- Happiness drops to 1 :c5unhappy:

145
- Archer clears barb camp SW of Dublin.

146
- Civil Service! => Education

147
- The Great Library has been built in a far away land

148
- Lhasa desires Angkor Wat
- :c5trade: reaches Neapolis & Cumae
- We get a new Policy. Commerce => +3 :c5gold: in :c5capital:

149
- Legion clears barb camp SE of Rome
- Legion clears barb camp N of Cumae
- Cumae starts Library

150
- Knight clears barb camp N of Copenhagen
- Two Horsemen clears barb camp E of Ravenna

151
- Nothing

152
- Ravenna finishes Monument => Library

153
- Ravenna +1 :c5citizen:
- We're :c5happy: again.

154
- Nothing

155
- Education! => Astronomy
- Rome finishes Temple => Walls
- Legion+Horseman clears barb camp SW of Sukhothai

For the future:
Berlin almost connected to our trade network.
12 turns to Astronomy.
Libraries needed in Cumae, Neapolis & Ravenna for National College - underway in all three.
Colosseums needed in Neapolis & Ravenna for Circus Maximus.

I think that about covers it. As usual my computer flat out refuses to let me take screenshots without a CTD, but I managed a strategic view of the empire at turn 155.
 

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Thanks Sindri! I think that puts me up next of our original group. I would like to suggest that if anyone is reading this thread and wants to join, they should speak up and we can bring them in.

I will take the save and do my turn as soon as I can. Is there any discussion we need. If we are that close to Astronomy, then we need to figure out what we are going to do when we meet people. Are we nice, nasty, or neutral?
 
- Rome finishes Temple => Walls

For the future:
Berlin almost connected to our trade network.
12 turns to Astronomy.
Libraries needed in Cumae, Neapolis & Ravenna for National College - underway in all three.
Colosseums needed in Neapolis & Ravenna for Circus Maximus.

Good progress towards astronomy! But why are you building walls in Rome? Ok it doesn't cost anything in maintenance, but its not like we need it really :)
 
I will take the save and do my turn as soon as I can. Is there any discussion we need. If we are that close to Astronomy, then we need to figure out what we are going to do when we meet people. Are we nice, nasty, or neutral?

I'm curious to see how the AI has developed. I think we never got any messages about civilisations or city states being wiped out yet? In any case, I suggest peaceful exploration until we're ready to bring the cavallery :)

There's not much to discuss right now, I think its still build up/consolidate until we have a good picture of where our competitors are. Btw. I'd suggest building/buying a caravel on the western side of the continent, since we know the eastern side rather well already.

Another topic, do we want to continue with 15 turns each, or return to 10 turns? IMO 15 turns is fine and gives each player more opportunity to do things. Just remember to stop and post on the board if you're unsure about anything.
 
But why are you building walls in Rome? Ok it doesn't cost anything in maintenance, but its not like we need it really :)

Yeah, I know, but I didn't know what else to build. Sorry. :undecide:

I'm curious to see how the AI has developed. I think we never got any messages about civilisations or city states being wiped out yet? In any case, I suggest peaceful exploration until we're ready to bring the cavallery :)

I agree, let's play nice for a while until we have a good target for our next war. Oh, and about the AI development I got a list of the most wonderful states while playing. It went:
1) Unmet player 4
2) Unmet player 3
3) Unmet player 2
And the rest of us left with zero wonders each, which means that there at least are couple other civs without wonders, just like us.

Another topic, do we want to continue with 15 turns each, or return to 10 turns? IMO 15 turns is fine and gives each player more opportunity to do things. Just remember to stop and post on the board if you're unsure about anything.

Until things start happening at a faster pace, 15 turns sounds good to me too. Now let's get out on those high seas and do a bit of exploring!
 
I looked at the save and want to give a quick chance for discussion.


Builds: I want to switch Rome to a Monastary and Antium to a Circus. The Monastary in Rome would be 7 culture for 2 maintenance. That's a pretty good return, to me. The Circus is free happiness. I don't want to throw away whatever hammers that are already invested, but I want to put these two buildings in front of the Walls. With three turns left in Antium it is probably not worth trying to time Rome's Walls to happen before Antium Walls to get the UA bonus. I do think the Walls have some possible value. I am conditioned to think that some of the strength evaluation a Civ has of you is based on defensive strength, and that relative strength affects diplomatic reactions. I am concerned about meeting new people as a relative weakling. We have some Libraries about to finish. I would like to build some military just to keep ourselves strong and ready.


Expansion (and Diplomacy): I assume we are still expanding, but are presently limited by happiness. Is it time to buy more culture, pearls and horses from Lhasa with an alliance? The pearls will help our happiness limit for expansion/growth. We can also start another Coliseum. How big a happiness buffer do I need to see before starting another Settler?


When Astronomy comes, I want to buy two Caravels. One going east and one going west. We can buy Lhasa and still have enough in the bank for the Caravels. This brings up the question of how much you spend on alliance at a time. I usually save up and spend 1000 gold at a time.


Tech: After we get Astronomy, I want to do Chivalry and Banking for Knights and money respectively.


I will wait as long as my itchy fingers will let me for your input before taking off madly in these directions. :)
 
All right, looked at the save too, here are my thoughts. Let me start with two screenshots:



We have four horse units, two melee combat units and an archer, as well as two triremes. When we go against our next targets, we have to consider that the patch has nerfed our horses. We shouldn't rely on them as main attack force anymore (although when upgraded to knights they will still be very powerful). We have only two iron left currently. I think its a good idea to build two ballistae (our unique catapults) with the remaining iron, to get some siege support.



We clearly are not that weak, judging from the soldiers rating :) we also have the lead in land area and crop yield, which should help us to catch up in population. I'm wondering why we have so low production, but our cities are still developing and I think it'll be ok in the long run.

Suggested city builds (after they complete what they're building now)
Rome:
- Watermill (->Production!)
- Ballista
- University

Insert the national college once available (in 15 turns), same for other national wonders.

Antium:
- Circus
- Ballista

Cumae:
- Market
- Perhaps a spearman/pikeman in case we have to face horses?

Neapolis, Ravenna: Collosseum, Market (to be able to build the other two national wonders)

Note that we should not build more units immediately, before we know where the other civs are.

Alliances
We should also immediately ally with Lhasa. Friend status is nice but doesn't help us all that much! I'm fine with spending 500g for now, that will give us 72 turns of ally status if I count right (due to patronage ;) Btw. all city states give 65 influence for 500g and 130 influence for 1000g, so there's no advantage to paying the larger amount.

Tech:
I agree with going for chivalry next. Then we have to choose tho, banks would be great (could also build forbidden palace), but we could also go for metal casting -> steel (12 turns total), longswordmen would help us immensely in the coming wars I think! Metal casting would also open up machinery (-> crossbowmen).

Social policies
I checked, we don't have discipline from honor yet (+15% combat str when another unit is adjacent). Could pick that up, I'm not sure how important it will be, considering we are pretty good in power currently.
I still would like to continue down the commerce tree then, or do you prefer other things (we will also have rationalism and freedom available once we finish astronomy and enter the renaissance era!)?

New cities:
I would like to hold off building more cities, until we finish the national wonders. Thats up for discussion of course.
 
lurker's comment:
We have only two iron left currently. I think its a good idea to build two ballistae (our unique catapults) with the remaining iron, to get some siege support.
Don't forget that you have to invade another continent and you need fleet to escort your invasion forces. Frigate need iron and is much more powerful then caravel. After patch frigate usually destroys caravel in one shot. And AI now builds quite a lot ships. Moreover, by the time of invasion, you will probably could use trebuchets (it is only a little better then ballista) or even canons.

Probably you need a little more iron. Maybe you should find city states with iron and buy them?
 
lurker's comment: Don't forget that you have to invade another continent and you need fleet to escort your invasion forces. Frigate need iron and is much more powerful then caravel. After patch frigate usually destroys caravel in one shot. And AI now builds quite a lot ships. Moreover, by the time of invasion, you will probably could use trebuchets (it is only a little better then ballista) or even canons.

Probably you need a little more iron. Maybe you should find city states with iron and buy them?

I didn't know that frigs use iron...hmm. Anyway, we have several options of getting more of it, either by founding another city (not my preferred way, see above), or via CS...I didn't check if one of the city states known to us offers iron.

Also I was thinking about frigates, but tbh I don't see a real value in building them yet (or upgrading our triremes). Navigation is a loooooong way off, and we have more important techs (IMO) to get first. And while I agree that the bombard support would be really helpful, I doubt our forces will need much cover, at least for the first invasion. Our caravels (which we should have by then) must scout ahead and make sure we don't run into pirates/barb ships.
 
I like the Ballista and Pikeman suggestions. I will also go along with working towards national wonders.

Do you really think a Watermill is that useful? It doesn't impress me as a hammer and maintenance investment. Two food isn't that much compared to what our capitol will get from Maritime cities and one hammer isn't all that much either. I have only built it in non-capitol cities starving for food.
 
155


Spent 500 gold to temporarily buy the undying loyalty of Lhasa for 72 turns. We are now at 8 happy.


156


A barb camp appears southeast of Ravenna. Sent Horseman from Ravenna to go beat them up. Si Satchanalai loves the King because of the pearls from Lhasa. Some City grew because we are at 7 Happiness.


157


Neapolis finishes Library. Start Coliseum.


Turn 158


The Horseman finds that the barb camp has a Pikeman in it. Combat results predict minor defeat. I am not in a hurry. Send Horseman from Berlin to help. Two horses should be able to take the Pikeman out before it gets a chance to hit back at a weakened Horseman next turn.


Antium finishes Walls and the local citizens feel safer, although it doesn't seem to help the happiness levels. Ingrates. Start a Circus. Maybe the clowns will cheer up these clowns.


Turn 159


Cumae finishes Library. Start Ballista. Singapore wants us to take out Dublin. We're too busy growing.


160


A barb camp appears on Lhasa island. I had left a Horseman idling on the island and it goes to stomp on barbs.


Somebody out there denounces somebody else. Glad to hear they are not getting along, whoever they are.


161


The two Horseman gang up on the barb Pikeman near Ravenna. It's dead. More denouncing happening out there!


162


Nothing happens. Don't read this entry.


163


Rome finishes Walls. Start Watermill. (I still think the Monastary is a good investment. I hope Watermills are useful enough that we build them in other cities to get the UA bonus.)


Started road to Hamburg. Two road tiles to connect a size 7 city!


164


A barb camp right next to the Barringer Crater! Can't have that. Send a Legion from Rome.


Our Horseman finds it is another barb Pikeman on Lhasa Island. It will be an effort for a reinforcement unit to catch up. We are going to maneuver for a hit and run. I can stand on a hill next to the camp, attack and get weak, and then retreat one space behind a hill so the Pikeman can't get me the next turn. This will do.


165


Nothing to report


166


ASTRONOMY!


Horseman attacks and retreats to safe place. I am actually proud of this little tactic.


Set research to Chivalry. Bought two Caravels, one in Rome, one in Cumae.


167


Horseman is healing on Lhasa Island waiting for a second shot at the barb camp. Caravels head out East and West. Ravenna finishes Library and starts Coliseum.


Antium finishes Circus. Yes, I should have done the Market in Cumae and the Ballista here. I don't see anything I want to build immediately except maybe a Temple. If two gold for 7 culture isn't worth it in Rome, then 2 gold for 3 culture can't be a priority in Antium. I have an idea that may get me in trouble. I want to save Rome to build regular buildings to give the UA bonus to other cities. So, I am going to start the National College in Antium. To my understanding it doesn't matter much where you put the National College as long as you get the science multipliers in that city. It will take longer, but it will leave Rome free to build other things and keep Antium busy while we are exploring/growing. Start National College in Antium.


168


Dublin wants Singapore eliminated.


169


Meet Darius. I don't know how you people feel about Open Borders. I open them up with everybody when I meet them and then figure out the politics to see whom I want to continue being friendly with. Given that it is only a another turn to complete my reign, I will leave that to the group. He was amenable to a straight across the board Research Agreement, so I took him up on that. Bought RA for 250 gold.


Met Stockholm. I didn't catch the gold we got, but I don't think we are the first to meet them.



Road to Hamburg complete.



170


It's an Archer next to the Barringer Crater and it shot at our Legion. I will let the next Ceasar of the realm deal with that insult.


Good luck you, Ceasar-to-be, in your exploring and empire building. Darius is ahead of us in Science, so I suggest we find other RA partners. This part of the exploration is one of my favorites, so have fun!


By the way, our Horseman on Lhasa Island has run into difficulties. It looks like the barb camp spawned a fresh Pikeman and it has us cornered. You can do what you find to do with it, but my advice is to duck into the water where the Pikeman can't get us and bring up the nearby Caravel as support. Try not to lose our dear brave troops, unless it is for a good reason.


Save file attached. A couple screenshots to follow....
 

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Whoa, I could actually use some nice teamwork to brush up my skills from purely being self taught but I doubt I actually have the time available right now, or the know-how to keep up.
 
Whoa, I could actually use some nice teamwork to brush up my skills from purely being self taught but I doubt I actually have the time available right now, or the know-how to keep up.

Welcome to the boards, and hope you enjoy reading so far! We're also learning (as you can see from the title of the thread), just follow up on reading and ask questions if you want! :)
 
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