Inquisition

Hey OrionVeteran. Had a very intriguing idea, have to consider how possible it would be to implement it.

Imagine the Scenario: You have 2 civs running Hinduism as their State Religion. However, one civ is running Pacifism and the other is running Organized Religion. Civ A builds a missionary and sends it to one of CivB cities-here it conducts a "Generate Schism" mission. What this does is to convert that city from Organized Hinduism to Pacifist Hinduism. This city-after 1 turn of anarchy-now gains a -1 Happiness and loses access to any Hindu Buildings as long as the Religious Civics differ. Also, the civ which has the Hindu Shrine loses the gold it normally gets from that city. Additionally, Civ A "implants" +2 CivA Culture/turn into that city and gets +1 gold per turn from that city-as LONG as it runs Pacifism as its Religious Civic.
So what do you think? Could make religion even *more* interesting-especially with an expanded Dogma mechanism for Religions.


Hi Aussie,

It’s really nice to converse with you again. Since the time when TheLopez developed the inquisition Mod for Warlords, I’ve had a straight forward vision to add several capabilities and prerequisites to make this mod more historically accurate. At the same time, I believed the Inquisition Mod should be thoroughly debugged to make it one of the most desired mod components for CIV4. We have come a long way since 2006, by adding a new religious victory condition (with 6 prerequisites), adding an XML option for limited religions and denying Inquisitors to Civs having the religious civics of Pacifism and Free Religion. Yet, there are still some additional prerequisites and features to add. For example:

1. Foreign inquisitions, with three prerequisites

• There must be an open borders agreement with your civilization.
• The state religion of the civilization must match yours.
• Your state religion must be established in the city.

2. Adding a prerequisite building for the inquisitor - The temple (not as easy as I first thought).

3. Adding gold to compensate for the cost of conducting an inquisition.

Throughout all of this, I have kept true to the distinction between Missionaries, Inquisitors and Spies.

1. Missionaries are used to spread or proselytize a state religion into other cities throughout your civilization and those, which have an open borders agreement with you.

2. Inquisitors are used to eliminate/remove any non-state religion and any associated non-state religious buildings that may exist in any city throughout your civilization and in any foreign city, where that nation has the same state religion and an open borders agreement with you.

3. Spies are used to conduct covert actions against rival civs to gain intelligence information, to sabotage enemy infrastructure or to steel gold or even technology.

I have great respect for you and think you deserve a thorough and detailed analysis. So here are my thoughts on your suggestion: If I understand you correctly, the scenario is: Civ A sends out a Missionary to a city owned by Civ B.

1. If the city shares the same religion as the missionary, then the use of the missionary changes the religious civic for that one city from Organized Religion to Pacifism.
2. The resulting action of this missionary would result in 1 turn of anarchy in Civ B’s city.
3. Civ B’s city would loose the gold income that would normally be provided by the Shrine.
4. Civ B's city looses the benfits it normally would receive from the religious buildings it has.
5. Civ A would start receiving the city gold benefit that once belonged to Civ B.

I have three simple questions to ask you. If you were Civ B and were attempting to achieve Religious Unity for a religious victory, would you be happy if a renegade missionary came from another civ into one of your cities and caused anarchy that resulted in a one turn suspension of all production? Would you be happy, if your empire no longer received the shrine gold benefit from that city? Would your city be happy if you took away the happiness normally gained by their places of worship? Clearly, the answer to all three questions is no. In fact, I would venture to say, you would be very angry over this covert action conducted by a supposed ally (Civ A), whose actions have stolen your gold and stopped city production. I believe this kind of covert action is more suited to a spy, not a missionary. That’s my honest opinion. My recommendation: Add a new mission for the spy to steel city shrine gold and a second mission to force a religious civic change in a rival city. I think those missions would better meet your desired goals.

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran :cool:
 
I really hate to keep bugging you OV, because I am sure you are pretty busy with all this stuff as it is. But I don't know which files I need to use, as in I don't know how to add a unit at all or what files hold the code for the unit and its abilities/prerequisites etc. I can probably find out another way, but considering you made this mod would you mind telling me which files I need to move/edit to get this unit in the mod I'm working with?
 
You might be right. Perhaps have the mission belong to a wholly separate unit. I didn't mention it, but obviously this kind of act would cause enormous harm to your relations with the other Civ. I just thought it might be a good way of representing the divisions which exist WITHIN religions-not merely between religions. In particular I'd like to see something which mimics the Wars of the Reformation which tore Europe apart during the Medieval and Renaissance periods.

Aussie.
 
Or Sunni and Shia in Islam. You would have to make alternative religions for each one (you could probably just change the color of the emblem) and make them event/great person based rather than technology based. I don't know exactly how you would make this work though. Maybe there could be a Schism button for the Great Prophet, but I don't know what prerequisites there should be.
 
I guess you know we did put schisms in Rapture. And the criteria is just a prophet and the appropriate religion in a city to preform a schism with. Like for example if a city has Sunni then you can make a schism to have Shia be founded in the city. I was planning to have the Revolution mod with it. So it would do more than a simple one turn loss in the end. It would lead the civilization quite possible splitting into 2 was my idea anyway.
 
I really hate to keep bugging you OV, because I am sure you are pretty busy with all this stuff as it is. But I don't know which files I need to use, as in I don't know how to add a unit at all or what files hold the code for the unit and its abilities/prerequisites etc. I can probably find out another way, but considering you made this mod would you mind telling me which files I need to move/edit to get this unit in the mod I'm working with?

All of them.

1. Each file in the inquisition Mod will have to be added to your existing mod in the same corrosponding folders.

2. Wherever you run across a file name from the inquisition Mod matching an existing file name in your mod, WinMerge will be required to combine the two files.

3. WinMerge allows you to compare the two files side by side. Wherever the inquisition mod has additional code or XML that is not found in your mod, then you copy and paste that code into your mod at the same precise function and location.

4. Watch for indentation errors, as they will cause a function or the entire mod to fail.

You now have the bare minimum information you need to start merging the two mods. I encourage you to review and ask questions on the SDK/Python threads to learn more and tacle the more difficult issues. Also, read the tutorial link I sent you, as it will really help you to understand how to merge files together.

Sincerely,

Orion Veteran :cool:
 
Orion's Inquisition version 101A is now released:

Get it Here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10325

Version 1.01A Changes: 9 Sep 2008

Added a new building called the "Holy Office" as a prerequisite for producing Inquisitors.

Holy Office building attributes:

Cost 240 hammers
+2 Gold (Simulates the confiscation of victom's personal property)
+1 happiness (City benefit for maintaining Religious Unity)
+1 Unhealthy (Simulates loss of population due to Inquisition)
Can turn one citizen into Priest
State Religion must be present in a city to build the Holy Office
Holy Office is now required to produce an Inquisitor

CivPedia comments: The principle of political, cultural and religious unity became the standard for many European governments in the Middle ages. The inquisition was imposed to preserve the purity of the faith and the unquestioned authority of religious and state leaders. Heresy was a belief in something that conflicted with the official state religious doctrine. The Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition operated with the full authority of the state to enforce church doctrine by cracking down and rooting out heresy. The words Holy Office meant Holy Office Building or Branch Office Building of the Holy Inquisition. The right of inquisition was the right to inquire on matters of faith and morals. Inquisitors representing the Holy Office were greatly feared.

Please feel free to comment about the attributes of the Holy Office.

Have Fun,

Orion Veteran :cool:
 
i like the holy office idea! thank you for your effort. im guessing that the AI knows how to use it?

I don't see why it wouldn't. I have not played too many games with the Holy Office building. May I ask for you to play out a test to look for the AI's behavior? It would be a big help.

Thanks.

Orion Veteran :cool:
 
Love the Holy Office! (this is both a declarative and imperative statement)

This is just the thing to represent the ongoing versus purge-based inquisition as per our earlier discussion. :goodjob:
 
Love the Holy Office! (this is both a declarative and imperative statement) This is just the thing to represent the ongoing versus purge-based inquisition as per our earlier discussion. :goodjob:

Glad you and Modifieda4 like the new Holy Office building. I was trying to use a dungeon for the building art, but the one I ran across did not work. So, a copy of the court house art is being used temporarily, until we find a suitable file to replace it.

Orion Veteran :cool:
 
I am trying to make it so the Inquisitor requires a Cathedral to be built unless under a Theocracy, and I can't get it to work. I put the right code under Theocracy (I moved it from Org Religion and changed it to SPECIALBUILDING_CATHEDRAL), I made seven different Inquisitors (one for each religion) and made their prereq building the Cathedral for each religion. So I don't know what else I have to do. Is there a python issue or something involved here that I'm not getting?
 
I am trying to make it so the Inquisitor requires a Cathedral to be built unless under a Theocracy, and I can't get it to work. I put the right code under Theocracy (I moved it from Org Religion and changed it to SPECIALBUILDING_CATHEDRAL), I made seven different Inquisitors (one for each religion) and made their prereq building the Cathedral for each religion. So I don't know what else I have to do. Is there a python issue or something involved here that I'm not getting?

the first place i would check is the xml file that controls the unit. (im at work now i cant check which one). from memory there are usually a bunch of requirement variables there.
 
Alright, I figured that part out. But now the Inquisitor's action button doesn't show up anymore. It did before I changed them to seven different units so maybe its a tag issue, does anyone know how I can fix this problem?
 
Alright, I figured that part out. But now the Inquisitor's action button doesn't show up anymore. It did before I changed them to seven different units so maybe its a tag issue, does anyone know how I can fix this problem?

i would look at the different missionary units for each religion. how did you fix the other problem?
 
I am trying to make it so the Inquisitor requires a Cathedral to be built unless under a Theocracy, and I can't get it to work. I put the right code under Theocracy (I moved it from Org Religion and changed it to SPECIALBUILDING_CATHEDRAL), I made seven different Inquisitors (one for each religion) and made their prereq building the Cathedral for each religion. So I don't know what else I have to do. Is there a python issue or something involved here that I'm not getting?

Since the Holy Office already has a prerequisite for TECH_THEOLOGY, all you needed to do was modify the "cannotTrain" function in the CvGameUtils.py file to limit production of the Inquisitor to only the Theocracy civic. You would have had the same effect, without going to the trouble of creating 7 separate inquisitors. ...Only 3 lines of python code to make that work!

V/R,

Orion Veteran :cool:
 
i tried your mod, i had a load issue in the XML. granted im folding the latest version into my mod, but the error was centered on the new code of the holy office. this is what i changed the code in CIV4ArtDefines_Building.xml to:
Spoiler :

Code:
<BuildingArtInfo>
			<Type>ART_DEF_BUILDING_HOLY_OFFICE</Type>
			<LSystem>LSYSTEM_3x2</LSystem>
			<bAnimated>0</bAnimated>
			<fScale>1.8</fScale>
			<fInterfaceScale>0.61</fInterfaceScale>
			<NIF>Art/Structures/Buildings/Courthouse/Courthouse.nif</NIF>
			<KFM/>
			<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Buildings/Courthouse.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Buildings_Atlas.dds,4,2</Button>
		</BuildingArtInfo>


i havent played a game thru, but in the test game i made things seemed to be working ok. The only critique I'd add at this point is I wish the holy office had a different icon than the courthouse. Other than that I'm eager to see the improvements you've made to the original inquisition mod in action :goodjob:
 
Is there a problem with the Holy Office?

No, there is no problem with it. We just didn't want to add another building, I am using your stuff for a mod that is for a specific group of people who are difficult to get any consensus with. We aren't put it out in public or anything. I personally wanted to include it but everyone else preferring to make it attatched to a Cathedral.
 
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