DRM Tolerance

What DRM do you find acceptable? Pick one or more options.

  • No DRM (Open Source, Donationware, et cetera)

    Votes: 151 62.9%

  • CD-Check (CD-Key, CD in drive, the majority of CD games)

    Votes: 173 72.1%

  • One-Time Registration (Impulse, many Indie games)

    Votes: 133 55.4%

  • Login-Based (Steam, GameTap)

    Votes: 85 35.4%

  • Registry-Based (SecuROM, Starforce)

    Votes: 15 6.3%

  • DRM not listed here, including user ideas (Post)

    Votes: 8 3.3%
  • Total voters
    240
  • Poll closed .
Ever since having to... work around a not-all-that old game with scratched CDs, I have been drawn more and more to a digital download system. Of the ones I've tried, Steam is the most convenient.

I've reinstalled things from scratch 2 or 3 times without any major problems with Steam. Didn't like Stardock's system, too chaotic and the Gamertap system last I tried it was an absolute shambles.
 
kayapo said:
I wasn't talking about Steam. If you are not going to bother reading and understanding posts, you really shouldn't bother quoting and responding to them.

My argument was about the general idea that people are usually against having their privacy invaded and the post you argued that you don't care about your own privacy because nobody cares about you, etc.
Click to expand...
Your response is not fair at all. You were not talking about steam when you said that people do not like their privacy invaded, true. But the thing is that steam does not 'steal' info from you, they tell you that they gather info as part of the deal. If you accept that deal, then you should not complain about the invasion of privacy or about an invasion of civil rights and all that dramatic stuff. If any invasion of your privacy is that big a deal to you then you can leave it.
 
Agent Roo said:
Ever since having to... work around a not-all-that old game with scratched CDs, I have been drawn more and more to a digital download system. Of the ones I've tried, Steam is the most convenient.

I've reinstalled things from scratch 2 or 3 times without any major problems with Steam. Didn't like Stardock's system, too chaotic and the Gamertap system last I tried it was an absolute shambles.
Click to expand...

Steam is flat-out inferior to Impulse and GG to me in terms of being convenient.

Steam is superior only in amount of titles and better sales.
 
Vordrax said:
I apologize for the confusion, then. Actually, my initial intention was a single-choice poll, "What is the most intrusive form of DRM you find acceptable?" But then I realized that, in doing so, I make an implication of actual severity in my list. There are people (including myself) who find CD-checks to be "too intrusive," for reasons I won't bother going into in this thread. But if I voted on one below it, it is "assumed" that I've already stated that CD-checks are acceptable.

I realized this might be a bit tricky, so I changed the wording "What is acceptable? Pick one or more options" in the hope that most people would notice it before voting.

As an aside, there are people who find "No DRM" unacceptable, who may have actual experience working in the field as a developer or publisher. And I think they should be allowed to voice their opinion in this poll. They feel that it is necessary, and I think not including the ability to agree with its necessity is wrong. Just because other users don't understand their point of view does not invalidate it.
Click to expand...

Developers tend to oppose DRM. It costs them sales. DRM is often forced on developers by publishers, as we're seeing with 2K screwing over Firaxis.

Sorry: double post.
 
I like having a physical mass that is the CD in my possession. I want to punch 3RDG-G78Y-MBQ6-4T7Q-KA1H in my computer and authorize the program myself.

I think that my most valid reason for saying this is opinion - I would rather install it the same way that I have for years, than be required to do so differently. In other words, I do not want to change an already good system.
 
arstal said:
Developers tend to oppose DRM. It costs them sales. DRM is often forced on developers by publishers, as we're seeing with 2K screwing over Firaxis.

Sorry: double post.
Click to expand...

Thank you for voting and not arguing about DRM in the thread.
 
Akkon888 said:
I like having a physical mass that is the CD in my possession. I want to punch 3RDG-G78Y-MBQ6-4T7Q-KA1H in my computer and authorize the program myself.

I think that my most valid reason for saying this is opinion - I would rather install it the same way that I have for years, than be required to do so differently. In other words, I do not want to change an already good system.
Click to expand...

Same here. I'm afraid there are too many people that wish steam to do everything for them. Those that wish to do things ourselves are just going to miss out.
 
Who in the world has been voting for Starforce...???? it's like voting to have your computer destroyed by a nuclear explosion.

Impulse method was okay... because it required you to login to get updates and patches to the game, but this gives consumer choice to do so. It was not Required and forced down the consumers throat against their will.

Requiring Internet to even install the game is almost as bad as requiring internet to play the game. It's a nice way of them to tell you to bend over and take it up your pant-leg. Dial-up users and non-internet users might meet a nasty surprise after game purchase from the store to play single player.

Developers tend to oppose DRM. It costs them sales. DRM is often forced on developers by publishers, as we're seeing with 2K screwing over Firaxis.
Click to expand...

Firaxis should grow a spine. 2K even hired someone to comb the forums to sanitize dissent.
 
Civ 5 should go the way Galactic Civilizations went, with good AI and no DRM.
 
Olaf_The_Great said:
Civ 5 should go the way Galactic Civilizations went, with good AI and no DRM.
Click to expand...

Worst case, people can always make a Civ mod for Elemental. One thing I am sure of is that the mod tools for Elemental will be very extensive, especially since the CEO of Stardock isn't doing mods for Civ V now.
 
TheDS said:
Um, that's what the poll is about. What do you consider "within reason"? Is a CD check within reason? Is holding a gun to your head within reason? If it depends on the product, then I could see why you felt unable to explain your choice.
Click to expand...

Coming back to this thread a little belatedly, but I thought I'd explain myself here. Yes, it depends on the product. That's what I was trying to say in my first post. I took the poll to mean "DRM in general," not just "DRM in Civ5." Maybe that was a misinterpretation.

(This is what I had said originally: "I also didn't vote, because my opinion is a bit complicated. I guess you could say that my opinion is: I'll accept whatever DRM scheme Civ uses as long as it is within reason. This will probably infuriate some people here, but there you have it. DRM does not exist in a vacuum for me, and I'm more willing to make concessions for Civ than I would be for just about any other game.")

As far as Civ5 goes, I would accept most of the options listed in the poll (alas, someone holding a gun to my head was not among them). I have no experience with registry-based DRM, so I can't really comment on that at this point. But I have no "general" tolerance level for DRM that would apply across the board. It would really depend on how much I like the game.
 
arstal said:
Worst case, people can always make a Civ mod for Elemental. One thing I am sure of is that the mod tools for Elemental will be very extensive, especially since the CEO of Stardock isn't doing mods for Civ V now.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I would rather just get a fileshared copy of Civ5 than wait for a mod to be released.
 
Registry-based DRM basically installs a rootkit on your computer to check the disc. SecuROM even goes so far as to force your disc drive to operate in a legacy mode all the time; since drives were not designed to run in this mode for any length of time, this can result in damaging or destroying your drive.

For this reason I always run games in a sandbox and never let them directly access my computer, even when installing. Unfortunately, steam has been known to randomly not work sandboxed.
 
This:

arstal said:
if I can crack it
Click to expand...

makes that:

arstal said:
CD-check DRM
Click to expand...

Utterly pointless, as far as DRM goes. That's why we have things like Steam now.

And this:

Vordrax said:
look at "Dwarf Fortress." It survives on donations (Donationware). A good set of examples, too, are the indie games in the Humble Indie Bundle, including one of my favorites: Aquaria.
Click to expand...

is a bit of a mad argument, I afraid :p

I mean, you're not seriously comparing the development costs of Civ (or any other full on commercial product) with indie games written by a couple of blokes sat in their underpants... are you?
 
CaptainBinky said:
This:



makes that:



Utterly pointless, as far as DRM goes. That's why we have things like Steam now.

And this:



is a bit of a mad argument, I afraid :p

I mean, you're not seriously comparing the development costs of Civ (or any other full on commercial product) with indie games written by a couple of blokes sat in their underpants... are you?
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard of Stardock? They have no copyright protection, but people buy their games anyway.
 
That is the whole point of Impulse and Stardock; Impulse is almost exactly the same thing as Steamworks here. Impulse for GalCiv 2 you had to make an account and register your game to get updates and patches, but you could play the game out of the box.

Steamworks for Civ5 you must make an account and register solely to install the game, and then possibly be forced to download a 1 GB patch. You must also be online to get updates and patches.

Anyone should be pro the previous method than the 2nd. They both deal with the issue on the same grounds, except the only difference is: Steamworks alienates players that want to play offline that may not have internet access, also gives problems that on Day 0, you won't be able to play the game because of server problems. People with slow internet needing to possibly download a huge patch. People not wanting Steam virus' (j/k).

The Impulse-method is far superior to the Steam-method in every way. 2K likes to ram Civ 5 players where the sun doesn't shine, that is why they did that.
 
tom2050 said:
That is the whole point of Impulse and Stardock; Impulse is almost exactly the same thing as Steamworks here. Impulse for GalCiv 2 you had to make an account and register your game to get updates and patches, but you could play the game out of the box.

Steamworks for Civ5 you must make an account and register solely to install the game, and then possibly be forced to download a 1 GB patch. You must also be online to get updates and patches.

Anyone should be pro the previous method than the 2nd. They both deal with the issue on the same grounds, except the only difference is: Steamworks alienates players that want to play offline that may not have internet access, also gives problems that on Day 0, you won't be able to play the game because of server problems. People with slow internet needing to possibly download a huge patch. People not wanting Steam virus' (j/k).

The Impulse-method is far superior to the Steam-method in every way. 2K likes to ram Civ 5 players where the sun doesn't shine, that is why they did that.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I mean. You can play out of the box, and only have to register for updates and fixes. So if you have an offline computer, you can simply go to an online one, download a the patch executable, and take it to your gaming computer
 
CaptainBinky said:
is a bit of a mad argument, I afraid :p

I mean, you're not seriously comparing the development costs of Civ (or any other full on commercial product) with indie games written by a couple of blokes sat in their underpants... are you?
Click to expand...

I don't recall making an argument or a comparison. I believe I made a statement of fact for clarification, so quit being so argumentative and trying to pick a fight. It doesn't make you look witty or intelligent, it makes you look obnoxious.
 
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