Rhye's Catapult

If you're serious I think it'd be good to open a new thread. I know that at least I'll contribute to it.

Editing XML really requires just about no skill. If you were able to set up the pediaicons and civlopedia for Civ3 you'll definitely be able to edit the xml. And I think that you should be able to implement that idea without using python, which you do actually have to learn.

Has anything been happening with this lately Rhye? Are you just waiting for the new patch to start up again so that you can get some actual feedback?

PS: What's with the avatar Rhye?

yes i'm waiting for the patch.
Btw I tell you I'm going to have an hard April, with an exam plus some Warlords testing to do for Firaxis, so little time to spend here, which has the lowest priority


My avatar is now kayak's. I have Mirc's one (and Mirc's personality too, at least I try ). For the April Fool. Do you ever browse the off topic forum?

I completely understand with being busy. I'm going to end up having a bunch of big exams near the end of the month too. Try and make sure that Firaxis doesn't screw up the expansion

I actually never go to the off topic forum. Whenever I leave C&C I get a strange feeling and decide to come back That's pretty funny though to switch info with people. I also saw the you lived in Romania and that really threw me off.

I figured I should wait for a few other people to post before I started in again

Tell us if Warlords is worth buying Rhye! I'm trying to budget between GW: Factions, Warlords, and Food. I'm willing to starve a bit on your recommendations

Hi, folks!

I just want to give a sign that I am here, excited as to see Rhye is here and that he and we, as a team might create something spectacular...

I just do hope to have that PATCH real soon...

oooh, finally Soma is here- about time!

Aeon221 said:

Tell us if Warlords is worth buying Rhye! I'm trying to budget between GW: Factions, Warlords, and Food. I'm willing to starve a bit on your recommendations

Click to expand...

Of course I won't be allowed to say anything about it (NDA), but regardless of how good it is, it will be needed to complete the expanded project because of the 18 civs limit removal

Yarr, so I guess I'll be buying it then. Yay Soma!

Aeon, your post was brought to my attention as I'm working on a similar concept for a sci-fi mod. I agree with you about that approach to resources -- or at least food -- though to some degree the concept of "towns" gets at the idea in a partial way (no one says that people drive from town to city; the directionality is irrelevant).

[As such I have no idea what this discussion has to do with catapults.]

One major frustration I have is that resources in Civ3/4 seem to be infinite, which as we all know from our present situation with oil is untrue (depending, of course, on whom you bleieve ). Anyway, under a resource-driven model, all cities will be able to benefit from a single cow resource, no matter where in the world, which perhaps suffers from unreality in the opposite direction?

Another general observation: Civ mixes together the notion of private/public so that who exactly is doing this "building" and "researching" is unclear. So whether governments can only "buy" things is kinda missing the major point, which is that a city's production in real life doesn't seem to be tied to whether there are hills all around it. (Or does it?)

The other, purely game-mechanic point is that Civ4 does a nice job of encouraging cities to specialize based on their surroundings. There may or may not be a lot of realism to it, but it's fun. How will you replicate that in this kind of mod? I ask because I'm possibly pursuing similar ideas in my mod and don't want it to be unfun.

Why not add bonds to the game?! Granted, I just came out of a massive test on the subject, so maybe I'm biased, but I still think it would work out nicely

Heres the formula I worked out on the way over to my dorm from my class (a twenty minute walk... gah):

5000g + (a random interger in the range of +/- 1000g) + per capita income for your civ * 100 = bond rate

10% + (a random integer in the range of +/- 5%) - (number of successful bond repayments/10)% + number of bonds defaulted on *10 = Interest rate

Up to five bond sets can be issued per turn, and all must be repaid (or defaulted on) within 10 turns. A default does not mean that the civ loses the amount of the bond, just that later interest rates will be higher and the player will not be able to issue a bond for 1-5 turns. Should the player not be able to pay the interest rates, they will be offered the ability to issue another bond, or to lose units and buildings up to the amount required. No civ can have more than 12 bond sets outstanding. A specific tech and a specific civic (which cannot be changed from as long as the player has bonds outstanding) and a specific small wonder should be required.

Implications: Per capita income would greatly influence this, so the warmonger would not benefit as much as the small trading economy or suchlike. This would also give builder civs a chance against mid game grognards by allowing them to powerpump out units while financing the crusade in defense of the homeland through bonds.

At least, I think it would work like that. Hopefully it would be balanced, in that pillaging and destruction of cities would reduce the income gained on bonds, thereby weakening the ability of these financial civs to make war in the same way that pillaging and destroying the civs of a warmonger based on production would.

The idea behind the random number ranges is to prevent a player from being able to run their economy into the ground in favor of production and then use bonds to rush buy at the same time based on some known minimum value of bonds and staggered payments.

Whatcha think guys?

EDIT: Gotta make sure that there is an option to refinance bonds.

@ All

I have an idea for balance one city civ ==> great 10-20 cities empires...

The One city civ should have +100 % attack bonus while the biggest empire should have a malus of 50 % on attack for the units ...

Beetwen the two extrems, should have graduated malus/bonus ...

For showing the difficulty of managing a great Empire

What do you think Rhye ?

Sorry to sound very negative, but I disagree with the last two suggestions.

@Aeon
I think adding in bonds would just be needlessly complicated and incredibly difficult to implement (at least so that the AI uses them). It might be somewhat interesting, but our efforts would be much better directed elsewhere.

@Lachlan
I don't really like the idea of a completely arbitrary bonus like that. It just doesn't make sense to me at all for a big civ to be penalized militarily. Things that I do think make sense would be to economically penalize them (which the game already does with city upkeep) and to possibly make a civic option which gives units in their own territory a bonus. You could call it nationalism or something, but it would be available to everyone.

Isn't that already in another mod?

Aeon221 said:

Isn't that already in another mod?

Click to expand...

What's already in a mod?

Hello. I have been following this thread (by that, I mean I remembered(SP?) that I saw this thread a while ago, and decided to come look at what's going on today). I've come up with a few points that could help you...

Colonies

1. I think that Nomadic civs shouldn't be able to build normal Settlers. Instead they can only build Nomads. The "Camps" could of course evolve into good citys over time, though...

2. Also, I think instead of having a colony generate some GPP's towards a random GP, they should generate points more towards some form of Great Colonist, who can upgrade a "Colony" to a "Colony Center", that acts as a second Palace for the civ's colonies. It could also stop the colony from becoming a proper city for longer (although not completely stop it).

3. If there are revolutions in colonies, they should be affected by: 1. the ratio of normal citys surrounding it to colonies surrounding it, 2. By the number of unhappy people in this colony, 3. By the number of colonies (matbe even cities) around it that are revolting and 4. The ratio of land owned by its owner civ surrounding it compared to the ratio of land surrounding it owned by a different civ. I also think it should be possible for America to be formed not out of randomness, but from a large-revolution (E.g. 3-4 colonies all connected to each other revolt, and the result is America.).

4. Colonies should not be able to get passed cultural level 1 (the 8 squares surrounding the city). This should give some incentive to try and turn those colonies inot towns.

The Rise and Fall of CIvs

1. I think that if possible, civs should be able to reappear again after they've been destroyed. So, for example, if Persia "Vannishes" around 0 AD-ish (Easy number to remember), there's a chance it could re-appear in the middle ages. I suggest this, because it has happened with many civs/nations before.

2. I think that when a civ is spawned, it should already be equiped with the starting civics it would have had at that time (Of course, depending on ruler). For example, when Greece is formed, it should already be equipped with "Herreditory Rule", and likewise, Rome should have "Representation" for its Government Civic.

3. I think that, as a warning, a pop-up should occur when a new civ is abbout to spawn on your land, so that you can take measurements to move units and things like that towards cities that won't get affected.

Random other things

1. I think that if a Barbarian manages to take over another civ it should be able to "turn into them". It would suffer diplomatic penalties ("I don't know if I can trust your Barbaric ways..."), but otherwise would take on their persona, and the tech development should be in between the Barbarians tech advancement and the defeated civ. Just an idea...

2. And on the note of Greece, to make it so that it is actually Greece, not Macedonia, how about changing the Leader from Alexander to Agamemnon or Memnon? They could essentially still keep Alexander's traits, too...

I hope those ideas help!

The nationalism thing. Its in the Ultimate Strategy mod.

#4 Colonies is a great idea!

#1 R&F is also wonderlicious, but number 3 is too easy to exploit, and therefore I am against it. There should be a popup when it happens, and not before.

Not sure about Random #1 (seems hokey, specially if there is a respawn possibility), and I am of the opposite opinion with regards to Greece (should just name it Macedonia and have it spawn when Persia does, with barb cities to represent the Greeks)

On the others, I have nothin to say

Yes, the nationalism is already in the Ultimate Strategy. Thats where I got the idea I think it would be a good possible thing to address Lachlan's concern, but economic penalities would, imho, be the best and most realistic solution.

I agree that not giving cities any culture until they upgrade from being a colony is a good idea. Would provide more incentive to have to upgrade.

The idea of civs reappearing seems pretty good, in fact it might be a great way to get around our being limited to 18 civs total.

I don't think it really matters that much what civics a nation starts with when it gets 'born'. I guess it would be nice to have them be historical, but the AI would just revolt away if it thinks that another choice is better.

I would be really bothered it Greece's leader was changed to Agamemnon or something like that. If you want a real Greek I would choose Pericles.

I apologize for being silent,
but as you already know I'm very busy studying, playtesting Warlords and as this weren't enough, I had a surgical operation yesterday and I'll have to check in and out of the hospital for some days.

So, I can't comment any single thing I read, but I can assure that I always read everything.

Just a suggestion...before proposing anything complicated, think first how would you implement it. I mean, an idea must be translated in code. And AI should be able to handle it, so not just XML and Pyhton, but C++ (in the SDK) too. (I don't ask you to write code but just to think if it would be a pain to make it, or not, ok?)

An idea I had:

Port Villages.
Explaining through Example: In the Earth Map made by niust, Germany begins play with one tile between it and the Nordic Sea, I can't remember the real name. My theory is that if Germany were to build a town on this tile, the one between Berlin and the Sea, it would give Berlin 'coastal city' status. One thing I would suggest, though I'm not sure if this is possible, is making that coastal city status in effect only for buildings and ships, not wonders. That should balance it, and it will allow Germany to have a major port near their capital even though the capital is a little ways away from the coast. Maybe we coulod also make this only effective for villages and above, that would allow an opposing power to pillage the coastal towns to cripple an enemy's navy for a fairly long time.
The only way I can see implementing this is through an IF THEN clause/statement. I'm not sure if python or XML has that though, as I have only worked very briefly with C++ and JAVA.

Also, Something I mentioned in the 'mod without a name' thread, is the possibility of making different specialists provide a production bonus towards a type of building, or perhaps even starting to build it themselves. I like this idea because I feel that if there are a bunch of merchants in a city, they're going to try to set up a market even without the Government's help, or at least that's my oppinion.
This one might be easy, if you can just change the specialist properties in XML to 'double production of **insert building here**' or 'Provide two hammers towards **insert building here again**' Not sure about this though, as I haven't really looked at it. But that's what I would try because it seems like it would be the most streamlined method.