The Great Lighthouse - how do you use it?

I love the Great Lighthouse. While I used to think the Pyramids were the game-making wonder, I have long since abandoned that idea on any water-heavy map. Between currency and corporations (a nice long window) it means double trade routes in coastal cities. While just playing a normal game with it as a bonus is effective, I've discovered there are ways to make the GLH bonus just sick in particular situations. I will post mine, and hopefully some others will post theirs...maybe it's even more powerful than I think.

First: Astronomy is more important than anything else in the tech tree once you build the glh, unless you have overseas foreign trade without it. Double domestic trade is good, double foreign/continental trade is very good too. Double foreign overseas trade is a lock on the game, should you have it early enough. I will actually use liberalism to take astronomy when isolated with the glh - and watch my scientific output double in an instant.

Second: how to get to astronomy early is the key. Isolation is helpful for this, as ever spent on military is not spent on economic development. I will go after a single neighbor with axes/chariots after building the glh when feasible. Libraries and harbors are right behind granaries in my build order when founding coastal cities. Economy first whenever/wherever it is safe! If I have a neighbor I can't kill early, I try to set up a defensible border until I have a big enough tech lead to make the conquest simple. (usually maces/trebs vs axes/archers)

Third: Arrr! Be a pirate. By grabbing astronomy early, it is common to have privateers before anyone else has galleons (and in ideal conditions [neighboring continent with a single crossing point and AIs for trade], it can be done before caravels). I use lots of them, and use them aggressively. I generally forgo blockades for domination of the seas, killing everything that moves. If possible, I will isolate at least one AI continent for an easy military conquest without diplomatic repercussions. This is time consuming, but results in a game where domination/conquest victories are easily achievable without anyone ever coming anywhere near tech parity, or space before anyone else can even build parts.

Anyone have any favorite strategies they use to leverage those bonus trade routes?

Some important things regarding Astro-Lib:

1. You must get it well before most overseas AI's get Banking.

2. Since you need Optics you will also need Machinery. That means if you have a spare GS you should bulb Lib before acquiring Machinery.

3. Free Religion will be key to opening borders with overseas religious nutheads

If you can deal with that then I agree, GLH + Astro-Lib can be very powerful.

mariogreymist said:

I will post mine, and hopefully some others will post theirs...maybe it's even more powerful than I think.

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I think you just need to grow your cities sufficiently to boost the base value of the trade route. It helps if the AI's cities are large as well.

GreatProfit said:

Some important things regarding Astro-Lib:

1. You must get it well before most overseas AI's get Banking.

2. Since you need Optics you will also need Machinery. That means if you have a spare GS you should bulb Lib before acquiring Machinery.

3. Free Religion will be key to opening borders with overseas religious nutheads

If you can deal with that then I agree, GLH + Astro-Lib can be very powerful.

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The strategies I outlined do vary in effectiveness based on a lot of in-game factors. I don't see not being able to bulb liberalism as that big a deal when holding the glh - researching one big tech (you can bulb philo and educ even while grabbing machinery) is worth the time. I've also found that you can get open borders by handing out an old tech like CoL. Granted, it's a powerful civic tech, but it is worth it on two fronts: it makes them like you enough to open their borders and it gives the AI the ability to expand which means they will be spending their resources doing something other than getting Astro themselves. In some cases, I've managed to use literature as the bribe - a completely 0 opportunity cost move if the GL is already built. Shwedagon Paya can also get FR to get the borders open. Cash will also do it, and it's not uncommon to have a GM pop at about the same time as optics if the GLH is the only wonder in its city, making cash easy to come by.

As for the Banking thing...yep. You want a long period of overseas trade. I will sell econ cheaply (their entire treasury nine times out of ten) to any civ that is in mercantilism and has educ - it's worth it in the long run.

I've found the biggest factor for this being truly a dominant move is how much contact the other civs have with one another. If they only know one civ besides me, or are isolated, it is very easy to manipulate them. If they have multiple people to trade techs with, then I cease being God to them and am just a powerful enemy. There is a big difference.

Nares said:

I think you just need to grow your cities sufficiently to boost the base value of the trade route. It helps if the AI's cities are large as well.

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This is a good point. It's actually worthwhile to trade away certain economic techs cheaply to help your enemies er, trading partners grow their cities. From time to time I've found AIs without monarchy when I am cruising the world in my caravels! I want them to have it, because I want those huge markets to sell my goods in. I will also trade Code of Laws cheaply, as it allows for more cities to trade with. And after getting Astro, I am very willing to sell health/happiness resources cheaply to aid their growth.

Of course, growing one's own cities is a forgone conclusion whenever one enters into a primarily economic strategy.

Regarding the spare GS: It is assumed you've already spent 1 on Phil and 1 on Edu.

How much money does it usually take to get relations good enough for OB? Usually I am very wary of giving a lot of cash to the AI's because of how cheaply they can upgrade their units. If consequently their power rating shoots up and they set their sights on you, it can get ugly.

Even without the overseas bonus the GLH is a pretty damned cost effective wonder, especially if you're industrious or have stone close enough to be claimed with a second city. It greatly increases your coastal expansion speed, with GLH coastal cities pay for themselves very quickly.

Only problem with quick astronomy is it will obsolete the colossus which is great to combine with the GLH as there's a considerable distance between the two to build military and conquer stuff and 2f/3c (4 with financial) tiles aren't half bad when you're pumping your population to get better routes.

^ Oversea trade routes are generally better still.

GreatProfit said:

Regarding the spare GS: It is assumed you've already spent 1 on Phil and 1 on Edu.

How much money does it usually take to get relations good enough for OB? Usually I am very wary of giving a lot of cash to the AI's because of how cheaply they can upgrade their units. If consequently their power rating shoots up and they set their sights on you, it can get ugly.

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I've found that doubling the AI's cash reserve (Assuming they aren't nearly broke) is usually sufficient to boost relations enough. And I really don't worry about giving them money to upgrade their chariots/HAs to Knights...after all, when they sail those suckers on galleons, they will meet a fleet of privateers before getting to my coastline. Not to mention that if one takes this strategy, it should be a long ways off before you even have to worry about them having astro.

Kietharr said:

Even without the overseas bonus the GLH is a pretty damned cost effective wonder, especially if you're industrious or have stone close enough to be claimed with a second city. It greatly increases your coastal expansion speed, with GLH coastal cities pay for themselves very quickly.

Only problem with quick astronomy is it will obsolete the colossus which is great to combine with the GLH as there's a considerable distance between the two to build military and conquer stuff and 2f/3c (4 with financial) tiles aren't half bad when you're pumping your population to get better routes.

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I used to think this way too, but then I started building enough workers. Cottages beat the hell out of sea tiles in the long run, What you give up for that extra is far more than just the s you spend on the colossus. And what you gain by getting Astro/lib together (the usefulness of FR has already been discussed in this thread) is generally worth 8-10 in every coastal city. At a point where cities are usually no bigger than 13-15, there is no way you're working enough water tiles to make the colossus a better pay off than astro.

Kietharr said:

Even without the overseas bonus the GLH is a pretty damned cost effective wonder, especially if you're industrious or have stone close enough to be claimed with a second city.

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stone?

^ I believe that's a common misconception. Don't know why though.

To simply answer the original question: You build it and then you settle coast until you can settle no more. Up to 15 cities is easily manageable with the GLH, even on Immortal.

I use the Great Lighthouse to generate a couple of hundred gold from "failure cash". Then I start a new game.

Seriously, I hate the thing because it's so unpredictable when it will go. I've beelined it, had it ready to finish by ~1900 BC, and been beaten to it. Or, I've seen it still unclaimed at 600 AD. The only rule seems to be, if I try for it I'll usually come close but get narrowly beaten. Combined with the huge investment in both beakers and hammers, with no multipliers to sweeten the failure cash, and it really is my least favorite Wonder.

A lot of the good wonders are like that. I've built the Pyramids after 0AD and failed at 1200BC. I also don't see it as a huge investment in beakers - Both required techs are important early ones. It does mean being creative about research order is helpful. If possible, I will delay the wheel and BW until I can start the glh (Don't want to waste forests on anything else anyway). This stings less if there is stone/marble available, making masonry a worker tech. Alternately, if I have a seafood start, I will sometimes put off Ag/AH while getting BW.

It's also good to use whip overflow from building workers while building the glh. To do that, let a worker grow for a turn, then go back to the glh. When you exceed the happiness cap, whip that worker to reduce pop by two and get bonus s for the glh while increasing your chopping capacity. I do agree that it's a frustrating wonder to fail with, because of its lack of multipliers.

mariogreymist said:

Second: how to get to astronomy early is the key. Isolation is helpful for this, as ever spent on military is not spent on economic development.

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TGLH is weaker on isolation because there's no foreign trade route bonus for a long time. It's still nice, but the Oracle is quite important too on isolation. On higher levels, it's quite impossible to build both.

MkLh said:

TGLH is weaker on isolation because there's no foreign trade route bonus for a long time. It's still nice, but the Oracle is quite important too on isolation. On higher levels, it's quite impossible to build both.

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It's a trade off for certain. I will take isolation over a non-overseas trading partner because of the ability to forgo a strong military. The problem with a continental neighbor is the need to maintain a strong military slows economic development. If I can block a neighbor with one inland or two coastal cities, then I will accept a neighbor. If the border is going to be any longer than that, I will build the glh and start pumping axes/chariots.

I will take the glh over the oracle in pure isolation every time. And you're right...it is all but impossible to get both at high levels. Even a key economic tech like CoL from the Oracle isn't going to be more beneficial than the glh between its build and the first peril of overseas enemies (Astronomy). Two extra trade routes in every coastal city, even if only worth 1 and even at 60% science will yield more than CoL (which is a fairly advanced tech to get with the Oracle at high levels anyway). There is just too much difference between a one-time pay off and an ancient wonder which continuously generates and obsoletes at corporation to make the Oracle the superior choice in isolation. IMO, anyway.

Ideal for the glh is a continent where one spot (and only one) has access to another continent where other civs dwell. If I realize I have foreign overseas trade pre-astro, I will build the GLH before I even have my third city - it's that powerful in such a situation. It's pretty much an automatic win, unless you're an idiot.

MkLh said:

TGLH is weaker on isolation because there's no foreign trade route bonus for a long time. It's still nice, but the Oracle is quite important too on isolation. On higher levels, it's quite impossible to build both.

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Umm, no. GLH is strongest in isolation as you can settle the coast without having to worry about the AI mucking you up or stealing juicy interior spots you will eventually want. Further once you hit Astro (and isolation + GLH = beeline astro) you will get FAR more off the GLH than not. Strongest is, of course, semi-isolation where you are across the water (preferably with one deep water tile being claimed by an early border pop) from the AIs, but isolation is the next best shot.

In any event the other things to do to maximize GLH:
1. Have overseas cities of your own. Borders close, Merc gets adopted, and wars happen (yours or theirs); getting a +1 to all your cities can pay for the entire upkeep coast of settling an all water BFC.
2. Get Compass early. Harbors + bonus TRs are great.
3. Avoid corporation. You can reach Bombers + rifles + mgs + arty without killing the GLH.
4. Which brings us to our final point, GLH is a high strat, multipliers tap out at banking, Kremlin makes extremely effective at replacing hammers - run a Rushbuy economy. Beeline Astro -> Beeline Communism -> build Kremlin + MGB -> rushbuy units and stagnate at the MG/Rifle/Bomber/Arty army.

If you want the GLH + oracle on high levels they need to be built in cities one and two and you need to start with a good setup (e.g. Fishing with food resources at both locations so you can skip the other food techs and Cu so you can skip archery). If you are IND you can also chop em out in one location with enough forests.

It's overrated in isolation. Before you have intercontinental trade routes, it's only going to increase your commerce by, what, around 10-20 or so for a one person continent?

Pros: That's potentially more beakers than anything besides the pyramids and great library, so if you can build it little cost to your expansion, sure.
Once you have international trade routes, it's pretty amazing.

Cons: slower (commerce) expansion
Wasteful early techs. Roads and coastlines within your border can connect your borders without investing in sailing (less viable outside of isolation). Lighthouses aren't that important until you lift your happy cap. Walls stink in isolation, and you don't need construction, so masonry is a wonder only dead-end.
The cities pay for itself argument isn't very good. You're also increasing maintenance to the rest of the empire. Like an 8th city will cost 0.9+0.6*8>5 gold from aggregate number of city increase alone. Then there's increased civic maintenance and population growth maintenance. Commerce cities will tend to pay for themselves with or without trade routes. Mediocre hammer cities, even if they build research. may swing from not paying for themselves to barely paying for themselves.

If you build it before your second settler, you're probably losing too much. If you get it before your 3rd settler, you're probably slightly to marginally behind. If you try after that, the AI might steal it.

edit: not so big on oracle in isolation either, so great lighthouse very well be better. Code of laws is most useful for a fast philosophy. Free code of laws is a high chance for a religion. If you're smart about your economy, you should be able to get monarchy or aesthetics in a timely manner without oracle.

mirthadir said:

3. Avoid corporation. You can reach Bombers + rifles + mgs + arty without killing the GLH.
4. Which brings us to our final point, GLH is a high strat, multipliers tap out at banking, Kremlin makes extremely effective at replacing hammers - run a Rushbuy economy. Beeline Astro -> Beeline Communism -> build Kremlin + MGB -> rushbuy units and stagnate at the MG/Rifle/Bomber/Arty army.

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That is exactly what I was looking for in this thread...It never occurred to me that you can go that deep in the tech tree without taking corps! (probably because I love the pentagon when I am warmongering) And with the speed with which a GLH economy can reach that tech level in isolation, one could easily conquer a huge map with such an army.

Thanks!

mariogreymist said:

That is exactly what I was looking for in this thread...It never occurred to me that you can go that deep in the tech tree without taking corps! (probably because I love the pentagon when I am warmongering) And with the speed with which a GLH economy can reach that tech level in isolation, one could easily conquer a huge map with such an army.

Thanks!

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For further amusement, choose Spain as your Civ and ignore Economics along with Corporation. Lack of distributable FM is more than offset by the fact that your MCGs and Artillery will have 10 XP (with theo or vassalage) coming out of the gate So much for the "Spain's UB obsoletes so quickly" whine

Don't make too many MG though. In that case you want your hammers (which won't have factories or power) on your super arty IMO. You can just draft rifles which will be good enough other than maybe a couple MG for cover against field infantry.

Of course arty itself gives you anti-tanks, and while getting rocketry takes away 1 pop drafts that will also take away their ability to safely hit you with gunships, meaning you can kick this garbage around until almost the end of the tech tree, if only because the AI is stupid.

For this I recommend SP WS spam and police state if you can capture the pyramids. This will give you respectable unit build times and for naval units the drydocks will have you at +85% production...not terrible considering minimal health issues.