VainoValkea
Emperor
Is that so? I'd imagine the trade routes add a lot more incentive to tactically co-operate with one's neighbors.
How good is BNW, in your opinion?
- Thread starter Smokeybear
- Start date
Is that so? I'd imagine the trade routes add a lot more incentive to tactically co-operate with one's neighbors.
bison21
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 221
I am not sure what to think exactly yet. What struck me about BNW is that it feels alot more like Civ4- just without the annoying stacks.
I love the trading and to an extent the increased complexity, but I feel that it is a tad too complex now. I don't see micromanaging as a form of intelligent design, and believe that the strategy should be with the players decisions. I think the culture-tourism part is too complex. Don't forget that civfanatics represents the top-end of the player base (in terms of knowledge and difficulty), and the vast majority play on warlord-king.
The culture-tourism game is very very complex: You have to increase culture(1), but also provide artist slots(2) which are different from culture specialists(3), and these slots fill up with guilds(4) -> great people production (5) which then leads to tourism (6) which exerts pressure (7) but somehow that pressure is always in relation to culture (8) and later ideology (9) and not to forget, swapping artworks to manage pressure (10). And then of course all the diplomacy modifiers that help with it, AND teching correctly, adding more pressure on the player (11+). The culture window is very difficult to understand, and imho goes beyond "it takes a game or two to get used to it".
I think tourism should have been dropped and instead, culture itself would be the pressure variable which can be enhanced with trade relations, religion, DoF's, world congress and so forth.
This is a complaint on a very high level- would I spend 20£ on the expansion? Yes. Would I recommend it? Yes. Do I love it? Yes.
I love the trading and to an extent the increased complexity, but I feel that it is a tad too complex now. I don't see micromanaging as a form of intelligent design, and believe that the strategy should be with the players decisions. I think the culture-tourism part is too complex. Don't forget that civfanatics represents the top-end of the player base (in terms of knowledge and difficulty), and the vast majority play on warlord-king.
The culture-tourism game is very very complex: You have to increase culture(1), but also provide artist slots(2) which are different from culture specialists(3), and these slots fill up with guilds(4) -> great people production (5) which then leads to tourism (6) which exerts pressure (7) but somehow that pressure is always in relation to culture (8) and later ideology (9) and not to forget, swapping artworks to manage pressure (10). And then of course all the diplomacy modifiers that help with it, AND teching correctly, adding more pressure on the player (11+). The culture window is very difficult to understand, and imho goes beyond "it takes a game or two to get used to it".
I think tourism should have been dropped and instead, culture itself would be the pressure variable which can be enhanced with trade relations, religion, DoF's, world congress and so forth.
This is a complaint on a very high level- would I spend 20£ on the expansion? Yes. Would I recommend it? Yes. Do I love it? Yes.
JustinianIV
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2013
- Messages
- 245
It would be interesting to know what Civ4-only people think about BNW after playing it.
They can't say it isn't more complex, and it does feel like it has better options for role-play types.
Of course, many of them seem to have made up their mind already and didn't even give GnK a fair go.
blackcatatonic
Queen of Meme
Forgot to add the caveat: I don't play multiplayer or scenarios, and from what I gather from other players, both of those are something of a let-down.
I wouldn't call twice in the same era on Prince 'almost never'. The only thing that it seems fair to say about the AI in this expansion is your neighbours won't always DoW you, which I think is a good thing in the interests of varying play a bit.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 16,938
I'm enjoying BNW and feel the money was well spent. Both Trade Routes and the new Culture system are solid mechanics. Trade Routes are serious business. The Culture system is fun. They mesh together and with the older mechanics quite nicely.
If you are on the fence, there is a demo on Steam.
If you are on the fence, there is a demo on Steam.
Randall_Flagg
The Evil One
As builder and laid back freindly player. I give it a 8/10. The trade routes, the tourism is just so juicey.
Aaron90495
King
I'd give it a 9/10...it really is fantastic. There are a few balance tweaks to be made, but for the most part, all the new mechanics tie in with the existing G&K mechanics amazingly well. Cultural victories are no longer a game of leveling up 30 times, and for the first time ever in a Civ game, 1) the end-game is enjoyable, and 2) science players can no longer ignore culture, just as culture players could never ignore science. I also love that you can finally settle a city late in the game and still have it be worthwhile; I grew a 20-pop city in about 85 turns last game. I agree that the aggressiveness needs to be upped slightly, but that can (and almost certainly will be) adjusted in a patch.
On the multiplayer front, I think it's just fine. Is it amazing? No. But it does what it needs to, something I couldn't say about CiV multiplayer until now.
I've yet to play the Scramble for Africa scenario (that's planned for today), but the American Civil War scenario was surprisingly good. I'd encourage those skeptical to give it a shot.
On the multiplayer front, I think it's just fine. Is it amazing? No. But it does what it needs to, something I couldn't say about CiV multiplayer until now.
I've yet to play the Scramble for Africa scenario (that's planned for today), but the American Civil War scenario was surprisingly good. I'd encourage those skeptical to give it a shot.
+1. I agree...
