Current (SVN) development discussion thread

The main reason for not placing the Great Wall is that it's difficult to make it look right.

Um...I think it's not a important question, or maybe that way:

Make Lhasa a independent city, then the Great Wall will be normal, then make Lhasa flips to China automatically in the next turn.

And Forbidden Palace meant to be added in Beijing, right?

I will suggest to make every city triple starting culture again, it's very odd to see there're a lot of tiles without culture covered in 1700AD in China at the Marathon speed...
 
Not for the Ottomans though.
 
The same reason Guangzhou is represented as a Chinese city instead of Hong Kong or Macau.

Nagasaki was founded by the Portuguese as a colony in late 16th century. Kagoshima was founded by the Japanese many centuries earlier, had always been more important to Japan, and even today has larger population than Nagasaki.

The idea that Nagasaki was Japan's "only window to the outside world" was nothing but false and outdated myth perpetuated by Western sources.

You should really learn to look at things from an other than Eurocentric point of view.

You're just wrong. While it is certainly true that the Japanese had trade with China, Russia and Korea throughout the Tokugawa period, Japan was nonetheless very much a closed society domestically. Chinese, Korean and Russian traders were not allowed in, though Japanese merchants might and did arrive in their ports. Nagasaki was the only place in Japan where any foreign merchants (Dutch and Chinese, primarily) were allowed in Japan, and as such was very important for not only Japanese trade but also the continued import of cultural and technological information from both the east and the west. Historical revisionism that has entirely eliminated the importance of Nagasaki is just as bad as the earlier view that Nagasaki was the only interesting thing going on in Japan. You need to stop being condescending; other people also know what they are talking about sometimes.

Also, Nagasaki was significantly larger than Kagoshima prior to having a nuclear bomb dropped on it in WWII, when the center of Kyushu shifted from Nagasaki to Kagoshima. Modern population is hardly relevant.
 
# free buildings when founding a city from at least from the previous era
This is very welcome.

Founding new cities in the modern age as India comes with a whole lot of buildings, instead of absolutely nothing. Is is intentional that these cities are still size 1 though? I thought that America got to found size 4 cities (or thereabouts) for instance.
 
Yep, that's an unrelated part of the code though. I can change that too.
 
You're just wrong. While it is certainly true that the Japanese had trade with China, Russia and Korea throughout the Tokugawa period, Japan was nonetheless very much a closed society domestically. Chinese, Korean and Russian traders were not allowed in, though Japanese merchants might and did arrive in their ports. Nagasaki was the only place in Japan where any foreign merchants (Dutch and Chinese, primarily) were allowed in Japan, and as such was very important for not only Japanese trade but also the continued import of cultural and technological information from both the east and the west. Historical revisionism that has entirely eliminated the importance of Nagasaki is just as bad as the earlier view that Nagasaki was the only interesting thing going on in Japan. You need to stop being condescending; other people also know what they are talking about sometimes.

Also, Nagasaki was significantly larger than Kagoshima prior to having a nuclear bomb dropped on it in WWII, when the center of Kyushu shifted from Nagasaki to Kagoshima. Modern population is hardly relevant.

Personally I think there are good arguments for including both, but Kagoshima is in a better location on the map (has the whale and the choice to mine or windmill the Nagasaki hill) so that would be my preference.

Does anyone ever found Nagasaki in the 3000BC or 600AD scenarios?
 
Just ran some test American spawns of the 1700AD Scenario. A few things:

- Most AI civs will revolt into a different set of Civics in the first few turns of this scenario causing them to become Unstable/Collapsing. Instead of trying to figure out what they're trying to revolt into, I say give everyone a free 10 turns of No Anarchy and be done with it.

- England is consistently Collapsing by the time of American spawn. Due to a few factors which can be rectified:

(1) Civics switches, like I mentioned above.

(2) Bombay & Calcutta wither and die under Mughal Culture. Change the Mughal UB to provide free Great Artist GP points, instead of 1 Free Artist. If there's one thing I learned from all these RFC modmods, it is that Free Artist is never a good idea because it messes everything up.

Also, consider removing Khajuraho. It makes sense to include it perhaps in the 600AD Scenario (it's not there, btw), but in the 1700AD Scenario nobody can make use of it anyway.

(3) England, Netherlands, and Prussia should start with No State Religion + Secularism. AI Netherlands and Prussia would revolt into Secularism anyway. AI England is too dumb to figure that out - we may need to help them.

- Finally, I think AI colonial civs should have a reduced, or completely zero Stability penalty when their colonies (America, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina) declare independence. The loss of cities is already a huge enough penalty.

- There should even be a diplomatic relations bonus between colonial civs and their former masters, to represent the "Special Relationship" between America and Britain, for example.

Got to agree with this, American UHV and space race victories are quite simple in the face of endemic collapsing. In my last run Turkey collapsed about 5 turns in (how I am not sure) and Germany collapsed about 50 years later after 'crusading' to a German middle east. France and Britain both collapse very easy - not only in America games either - especially Britain. Spain seems to hang on collapsing for a very long time, however, any effort at espionage on the players part can precipitate their downfall far faster - Mexican spawn and Inca respawn only worsen their situation, so I believe the reduced stability hit for colony independence is a very good idea.

For America Manifest Destiny and a quick mop up of the remaining mainland French and British cities is over fast, and all the collapsing leaves independent Caribbean easily overrun - either take Guatemala for yourself or leave it for your Mexican brethren. I'm terrible at warring, but Turkish collapse only leaves Middle Eastern oil ripe for the taking with Flight and transports, especially in anything happens to Iran. The only issue is the wonders, all the collapse leads to a mega-Holland, ahead in the tech race (until infrastructure is up and running anyhow), amazing colonies and large European holdings - in one game Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Italian peninsular, Paris, London and Vienna (Eastern Europe belonged to a par-for-the-course giant Russia in the form of a large Polish vassal, also saw Polish Brasilia from a conference :crazyeye: ). I must say I don't play on Emperor where I'm sure it is far more difficult, but honestly I don't want to see that Holland on Emperor :eek:

Haven't been able to get home and update to the very latest SVN yet, still one behind, so I'm not actually sure if these problems have been addressed, just wanted to add my complete agreement with IOnlySignIn's proposals, for what it's worth.
 
I'm very concerned about how easily the european powers are collapsing...and about America's tech advantage (as I posted in another thread)...I think as I usually play with the Prussians it's very hard to get the uhv if we start so behind on tech.
 
You're just wrong. While it is certainly true that the Japanese had trade with China, Russia and Korea throughout the Tokugawa period, Japan was nonetheless very much a closed society domestically. Chinese, Korean and Russian traders were not allowed in, though Japanese merchants might and did arrive in their ports. Nagasaki was the only place in Japan where any foreign merchants (Dutch and Chinese, primarily) were allowed in Japan, and as such was very important for not only Japanese trade but also the continued import of cultural and technological information from both the east and the west. Historical revisionism that has entirely eliminated the importance of Nagasaki is just as bad as the earlier view that Nagasaki was the only interesting thing going on in Japan. You need to stop being condescending; other people also know what they are talking about sometimes.

Also, Nagasaki was significantly larger than Kagoshima prior to having a nuclear bomb dropped on it in WWII, when the center of Kyushu shifted from Nagasaki to Kagoshima. Modern population is hardly relevant.
You're right. I'm wrong. I'm sorry.
 
Would be nice if someone could come up with like at least three GP names for all categories for Argentina, Mexico and Brazil.
 
Thanks! I'll keep collecting.
 
Mexico:

Great Artists: Diego Rivera, Frida Kahlo, Carlos Fuentes

Great Scientists: Andres Manuel del Rio, Jaime Lagunez, Jose Luis Lezama

Great Engineers: Heinrich Zoelly, Bernardo Quintana Arrioja, Guillermo González Camarena

Great Generals: Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla, Agustin de Iturbide, Porfirio Diaz

Great Prophets: Juan Diego, Jose Maria Morelos, Norberto Rivera Carrera (not 100% on this one)

Great Merchants: Juan Sánchez-Navarro y Peón, Carlos Slim Helú, Ricardo Salinas Pliego

I'm assuming there's no civ-specific Great Spies?
 
Okay, committing the results of today:
- more 1700 AD adjustments (stability, colonists, England/Mughal situation, Great Wall)
- Infantry no longer receives +25% against gunpowder units
- India cannot respawn while the Mughals are alive (but the Mughals can when India exists)
- Mughals as an English vassal are called British Raj if India is dead
- new third HRE goal: settle three great artists in Vienna by 1700 AD
- the Forbidden Palace now also reduces civic upkeep by 50%
- rewritten wars on spawn, they now happen when the spawn actually happens and correctly include vassals and war plans
- rewritten free AI colonists
- a pass over the Andes is freed in Bolivia when the Incan conquerors appear
 
I'd say Bolivar might be appropriate until/ unless Gran Colombia is in.
I've just resolved to put Gran Colombia in before the release.
 
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