Current (SVN) development discussion thread

morff · Jul 24, 2014

I think the problem with the tech reveals itself a bit later around +1500...

Screenshot attached from my last monarch game... Victoria was tech leader, year 1817, she got Assembly Line, Combustion, Rail Road (Electricity in 4 turns)... and she has only 3 core cities, 2 crappy cities in America, and 3 really crappy cities in India, one new city in Australia. (And i don't think i have traded a single technology with her.)

Spoiler :

Usually the Victoria is tech leader (if she doesn't get beaten early by Vikings badly or collapse by some reason), maybe the UP would deserve a little tweaking? (I assume she may be researching so fast because she is not paying any maintenance cost.)

The people that were saying the tech tree is being completed by 1950's IMHO not making it up

The tech tree should get completed after 2000's at least.

youtien · Jul 24, 2014

English leads tech mainly because of foreign trades and high population. London grows to 18-20 usually. French is next, for Paris usually grows to 18 and has Rome, they both have good colony spots too. No other AI Europeans(exclude Ottoman Istanbul) can grow that large. Russia has vast land but AI usually keeps low pop, strange.

Leoreth · Jul 24, 2014

morff said:
I think the problem with the tech reveals itself a bit later around +1500...

I've had the same observation, but it was mostly from 600 AD and I wanted to make sure that effects from the 3000 BC were not compounding on its tech situation so I can both treat the same way going forward.

Usually the Victoria is tech leader (if she doesn't get beaten early by Vikings badly or collapse by some reason), maybe the UP would deserve a little tweaking? (I assume she may be researching so fast because she is not paying any maintenance cost.)

Yeah, the UP will need to be nerfed or applied in a different way.

The people that were saying the tech tree is being completed by 1950's IMHO not making it up The tech tree should get completed after 2000's at least.

I don't doubt their observations. I am asking for more information because I cannot address this problem before I know what causes it. If individual civs are driving the high tech speed then their modifiers need to be changed. If the problem starts with a specific era, tech costs in that era have to be increased. Otherwise, tech costs in general might need to be increased. I also have to make sure that the problem exists to the same degree in different scenarios.

DC123456789 · Jul 24, 2014

Is it possible to make it so that the victory music only plays for the various victory screens, then if you decide to continue playing the background music returns to the normal era-appropriate music? I sometimes like to continue campaigns after a victory, and the victory music starts to sound kind of sad and lonely quite quickly...

Leoreth · Jul 24, 2014

Yes, that has always annoyed me too. Not sure how the repeat is forced but I'm sure it can be prevented.

Hippo8085 · Jul 24, 2014

Leoreth said:
I've had the same observation, but it was mostly from 600 AD and I wanted to make sure that effects from the 3000 BC were not compounding on its tech situation so I can both treat the same way going forward.

In my few 3000 BC scenario games I have not noticed anything different from 600 AD - actually Europe is sometimes a bit worse because of city placement, for some reason even those places without cities left over are really bad compared to 600 AD. No logical reason of course (I think).

Yeah, the UP will need to be nerfed or applied in a different way.

Can build a summer palace every 8 cities rather than only once (is that even possible?).

Leoreth · Jul 24, 2014

Hippo8085 said:
In my few 3000 BC scenario games I have not noticed anything different from 600 AD - actually Europe is sometimes a bit worse because of city placement, for some reason even those places without cities left over are really bad compared to 600 AD. No logical reason of course (I think).

Good to know that our observations match.

Can build a summer palace every 8 cities rather than only once (is that even possible?).

Interesting idea, I think it should. (Also, shouldn't the summer palace have a different, more universal name?)

Hippo8085 · Jul 24, 2014

I think so, considering what it does. Maybe "Governor's Estate" or something similar.

The main concern I have is that the AI does not seem to use the summer palace properly - I often see silver stars above cities close to the capital.

Leoreth · Jul 24, 2014

Yeah, I don't know how much intelligence is behind the AI creating secondary capitals.

Tigranes · Jul 24, 2014

youtien said:
Russia has vast land but AI usually keeps low pop, strange.

Quite historical let's not change it. Berlin needs to get big on the other hand, quite often it represents the entire Eastern Germany!

Tigranes · Jul 24, 2014

Leoreth said:
New commit:
- removed peak in Armenia and moved Lake Van 1W to its position
- adjusted city maps for the Caucasus for more accuracy
- replaced cow in Persia with Wheat

Great commit

!

morff · Jul 25, 2014

DC123456789 said:
Is it possible to make it so that the victory music only plays for the various victory screens, then if you decide to continue playing the background music returns to the normal era-appropriate music? I sometimes like to continue campaigns after a victory, and the victory music starts to sound kind of sad and lonely quite quickly...

Oh man, i really hate this too

You can "fix it" by going to options and disable, and re-enable the music. But you have to do it every time you load the game.

ezzlar · Jul 25, 2014

I dont think beelining is very realistic. You could go the RFCE way but only penalties for large deviations. Like steel in 1200 AD.

youtien · Jul 25, 2014

ezzlar said:
I dont think beelining is very realistic. You could go the RFCE way but only penalties for large deviations. Like steel in 1200 AD.

You are outdated. My Chinese got steel in 950 AD. Greeks can do that even earlier.

Leoreth · Jul 25, 2014

youtien said:
You are outdated. My Chinese got steel in 950 AD. Greeks can do that even earlier.

I mostly care about AI.

Throwing enough rocks into the way of power players such as yourself to have them have historical techs is a surefire way to ruin the game for the other 90% of players.

(Maybe we need more difficulty levels though.)

Grifguz · Jul 25, 2014

Couldn't you prevent beelining by effectively linking technologies to each other? I mean, for steel, you'd need to discover at least a few technologies in the general vicinity of steel (top or bottom), to be able to research it.

Leoreth · Jul 25, 2014

I'll take a look at Steel's prerequisites.

Atlantic Pacf. · Jul 25, 2014

Leoreth said:
New commit:
- replaced cow in Persia with Wheat

While this does give Persia more food, it's not the most optimal solution. First, the wheat can't be irrigated (unless one builds a city on the desert to its east, which is far from optimal city placement). Second, it's not Southern Iran that needs food most desperately; Shiraz can grow to around size 12 before Biology, IIRC. It's Northern Iran that needs food; Herat (assuming that Isfahan uses the sheep) peters out at size 4 pre-Biology; it's unable to even utilize all of its resource tiles. I think that an additional food resource should be placed there (and perhaps move one of the luxury resources to, say, Oman).

youtien · Jul 26, 2014

Atlantic Pacf. said:
While this does give Persia more food, it's not the most optimal solution. First, the wheat can't be irrigated (unless one builds a city on the desert to its east, which is far from optimal city placement). Second, it's not Southern Iran that needs food most desperately; Shiraz can grow to around size 12 before Biology, IIRC. It's Northern Iran that needs food; Herat (assuming that Isfahan uses the sheep) peters out at size 4 pre-Biology; it's unable to even utilize all of its resource tiles. I think that an additional food resource should be placed there (and perhaps move one of the luxury resources to, say, Oman).

Chop and farm the deer tile after civil service to irrigate that wheat.

Leoreth · Jul 26, 2014

New commit:
- increased tech costs in all eras from the Middle Ages onwards
- removed a tech speed increase from 1900 onwards
- removed an old mechanic that made widespread techs cheaper
- included a new mechanic that makes techs more expensive for the first quarter of civs to discover them and less expensive for the last quarter of civs to discover them

Didn't have the time to do many test runs with this setup but things do look better now. There was a bunch of complicated stuff by Rhye in the tech cost code which I mostly removed or streamlined.

Let me know how it's turned out.

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