A Babylon 5 Mod for the Final Frontier Mod

Please find below some of the things i came up with for a tech tree. I tried, as far as possible, to stick within the technology shown by the series but i guess we can keep some of the FF stuff. Makes it a little easier to do the MOD.
Obviously there are a lot more things that need to be added to this list, especially planetside buildings/improvements.
Tech’s and benefits:-
Communications lasers - Construct planetary communications network. +1 Happiness +1 Culture.
Planetary construction - 25% faster production of ships on planets. Negated by construction of orbital Shipyard.
Early space exploration - Construct satellite network. +1 Culture.
Space exploration - Construct scout ship
Laser weapons – Enables Mk I defence grid. (+20% defence bonus) Required to build corvette and larger sized ships.
Early orbital engineering – Construct mining ship (worker)
Suspended animation – Enables construction of colony ships.
Fission power – Construct nuclear power station +25% Production, -1 Health, -1 Happiness also enables fission engine and fission missiles. Leads to fusion power.
Fusion power – Construct fission power station or for a fee player can upgrade nuclear power station.
Removes negative effects of fission power also replaces fission engine with fusion engines. Leads to fusion and plasma weapons.
Fusion and plasma weapons – Required to build Corvette and larger sized ships.
Zero gravity training – Required to build Corvette and larger sized ships.
Orbital engineering - Construct space station (castle)+2 Culture, construct orbital shipyard +25% faster ship production.
Advanced orbital engineering – Enables construction of corvette/frigate sized ships
Hydroponics - +2 Health
X-ray Laser – Required for particle weapons research
Particle weapons – Required to build destroyer and larger sized ships.
Ship construction – Enables construction of destroyer and cruiser sized ships.
Small attack craft - Required to build fighters and bombers
Artificial gravity theory - Required to build destroyer and larger sized ships.
Terra-forming – Enables construction of terra-forming plant. This allows settlement of more planets and for greater populations on planets.
First contact protocols - Can only be researched after an alien race has been met or alien artefacts have been discovered.
Language translation - Enables tech trading
Universal language - Enables players to establish an embassy with another race
Xeno-biology – Can only be researched after an alien race has been met. +2 health
Ion energy theory – Enables research into ion power
Ion power – Enables Ion power station
Ion/particle engine - Enables improved engines for ships (increases movement)
Ion weapons – Required for Capital ships (dreadnoughts)
Rail weapons – Leads to mass drivers. Also increases planetary bombardment damage (as a catapult or trebuchet)
Mass drivers - Increases planetary bombardment damage (Use of these weapons gives negative reactions from other races is like use of nukes)
Organic technology
Data storage - +2 Science
Energy mines – Enables Energy mines promotion ( 2 – 3 first strikes)
Advanced data storage - +2 Science
Doomsday weapon
Galactic diplomacy – Enables Babylon Station wonder (UN)
Ground troops - Replaces the planetary defence ship. 1 ground unit per population point on a planet
Marines – Carried by invasion ships or troop transports. These units are the only way to capture a star system.
Artificial gravity – Increase movement of all units by 50%
Hyperspace theory - Required to build and use hyperspace (jump) gates
Hyperspace vortex generators - Required to build hyperspace (jump) gates
Hyperspace gates – Enables construction of hyperspace (jump) gates
Plasma engine
Gravimetric engine
Jump engines – Enables destroyer and larger ships ability to enter hyperspace (unit becomes a self
contained airport able to jump from 1 place to another in one turn)
Matter/antimatter
Quantum singularity
ZPF – Hyperspace tap
Credit chit – Enables trade/intergalactic currency

OK, I have tried to make a tech tree, it obviously needs more work, I have changed the names of a few techs and have added a few other.

B5 Tech Tree

It is in *.doc format (within a zip file because the uploader doesn't allow for doc files)

Name changes:
Communication Lasers -> Tachyon Link
Hyperspace Vortex Generators -> Vortex Generators
Hyperspace Gates -> Jump Gates

Added Techs:
- Solar Panels : I needed another basic tech so I added this one
- Missiles : Another projectile-type weapon (other than railguns)
- Artificial Intelligence
- Deep Space Exploration
- Ascension : Enables the "Last Voyage" project (Space race victory), 2 Planetary Self-Defense Protocols, 10 "10% population leaves for the Rim"

I left some other techs out deliberately, either because I found no place to put them or because I saw no use for them. So others I grouped together, like the "Energy Weapons" tech.


So, what do you think??

BTW: I did this tech tree before reading PsiCorps's last post

PS: how do we include telepathy in the game? (talking about Psicorps ;-) )


@thorgrimm:
I haven't look to much into graphics but do you think this may be usefull?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=184327

Hi again, I found this thread , check it!

a few minutes after the thread this happened:

screen0
screen1
screen2


these are of course only tests, but I got a little excited.

Hi

Name changes:
Communication Lasers -> Tachyon Link
Hyperspace Vortex Generators -> Vortex Generators
Hyperspace Gates -> Jump Gates

Click to expand...

Name changes are fine

Added Techs:
- Solar Panels : I needed another basic tech so I added this one
- Missiles : Another projectile-type weapon (other than railguns)
- Artificial Intelligence
- Deep Space Exploration
- Ascension : Enables the "Last Voyage" project (Space race victory), 2 Planetary Self-Defense Protocols, 10 "10% population leaves for the Rim"

Click to expand...

Added techs are good too, although rather than use Ascension as the title (bit too Stargate SG1) maybe we could find another more B5 orientated title - 'Beyond the Rim' for example.

I Thought we could use Telepathy as a bonus to Espionage as well as it enabling a second type of spy and extra missions. E.G. Everyone can build Spies until Telepathy event at which point the player can build Telepath Spies (PsiCorps for the humans). Telepathy would automatically give +2 to espionage in all that races star systems. Telepath Spies could get additional espionage missions in addition to the standard missions. All spies would have to move along established trade routes to get to their destination.

Hi again, I found this thread , check it!

a few minutes after the thread this happened:

screen0
screen1
screen2


these are of course only tests, but I got a little excited.

Click to expand...

Really impressed with those pictures. I'm guessing the language is Spanish but either way, would love to find out more.

PsiCorps said:

Added techs are good too, although rather than use Ascension as the title (bit too Stargate SG1) maybe we could find another more B5 orientated title - 'Beyond the Rim' for example.

Click to expand...

You are right, "Beyond the Rim" feels better. What do you think about the tech tree distribution... it just doesn't feel right for the hyperspace to be discovered so late in the game, but I can't see how to make its discovery earlier (techwise).

On a different area, I have used my limited artistic skills to start mking the buttons:

I already have them in DDS format (with a blank alpha channel).

a few other things I've been thinking:

- Since Civ is a "what if" game, I think we should add some worlds of the "League" (we need more than just 4 civs), but only the more representative ones: Drazi, Brakiri, Vree, Pak'ma'ra, and Markab. However to "honor the major B5 powers" we could only add a single leader for this ones.

- The concept of "Aircraft carriers" (or should I say Spacecraft Carrier) doesn't exist in B5, however, Capital ships are often capable of carrying fighters/bombers, I believe that some ships should be able to carry a single squadron and through promotions make them able to carry more. I think that it would be overpowered to make them able to carry more squadrons right from the start.

- Talking about traits, should we use a "trait(s) per leader" approach (like the standard game), a "trait per civ" approach (like Final Frontier) or a mix of both having a common trait for each civ and another trait for each civ leader??

And yes, it is spanish, but when adding units to the standard game I tried to add multi-languaje support (English, Spanish and German), I found it to be too time consuming (above all the german, for I'm just starting to learn that languaje), so I say, if we are to provide multi-languaje support lets leave that for a post-release stage.

EDIT: Also, we need, System names, I have a star map in a B5 book, I'll post it later, there is plenty of system names for the EA, however there are little for the rest.

Premier Valle said:

The concept of "Aircraft carriers" (or should I say Spacecraft Carrier) doesn't exist in B5, however, Capital ships are often capable of carrying fighters/bombers, I believe that some ships should be able to carry a single squadron and through promotions make them able to carry more. I think that it would be overpowered to make them able to carry more squadrons right from the start.

Click to expand...

If you ever played the B5 Wars miniature game they added the concept of Carriers and Missile Boats to the Universe. And since it was officially licensced by Warner Bros, most folks consider their additions as canon. And I do have at least one carrier model for all the major races and even a couple for the minor ones.



Cheers, Thorgrimm

No, I never played the Miniature Game... actually, until now, I didn't even knew it existed

A little update: I just made the flags for the major powers.

And the starmap: [its BIG!]


It is a photo taken from a book (I have no scanner)

Hey all. I'm a big B5 fan (been watching all the DVDs again this last few weeks).
I gotta say, i'm excited by the prospect of a B5 mod, and i'm really keen to see it get made and released.

Ive had a think and i've had some ideas about things you could do to make it work.



HYPERSPACE & INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL.
For starters, I'm of the opinion that each race should be locked into their home star system and the eight squares around it until they learn hyperspace technology, so therefore hyperspace tech should be available right towards the start of the tech tree.

This can be done by making a "deep space" terrain, which has a seriously high movement penalty, AND, a very high chance of destroying any units that enter it. So its possible to move thru it, but only briefly.

OK, so, how do they explore? Well, create a "Probe" unit, which is like a cross between a fighter and a missile, in that you can do a recon mission with it (only short range though), but that mission destroys it. In this way, the player can get some early exploration done.

Now, we need some way to enable hyperspace tech to make that 'deep space' terrain traversable. So how about we set it up this way:
When the "jump gate" technology is discovered, the player will get a free Great Person. This Great Person will actually be a disposable Jump Gate builder - his special ability is that you can consume him to build the "Jump Gate" improvement at that system.
A jump gate will allow the construction of Explorer Ships, which would be a National unit, that you're only allowed to have 1 or 2 of. These Explorer Ships would be able to cross the 'deep space' terrain type without any movement penalty and with the danger of losing them severely reduced, which none of your basic ships can safely traverse, so you can use them to explore.

Ok, so we have Explorer Ships, that can leave the system and explore. So you can use those to find other systems. And hey, here's the tricky bit:
Explorer Ships can build "Hyperspace Beacons" which is essentially a road.
By following the Hyperspace Beacons, other ships can have that high movement penalty removed - somehow, we'd also need to have that danger of losing the unit removed too.

So yeah - Explorer Ships can explore, and build beacons, and this will allow your civ to expand, since they should be the only ones who can build beacons.
Explorer Ships can also be consumed in order to create Jump Gates. If we can somehow set it up so that a system requires a Jump Gate in order to be colonised, that'd work pretty damn well

At this point, you can start colonising other systems.




THE LEAGUE OF NON-ALIGNED WORLDS
Ok, i had an idea that could make the League work as a single civ, but my guess is that it'd take a fair bit of work to actually do... so lets see if it's viable.

The League should have 4-5 leaders availible, each representing one of the major league races - ie. Drazi, Brakhiri, Vree, Gaim, etc.
That leader will have a trait that will allow the construction of THAT RACE'S line of ships (which, i think, should be shortened to only include a couple of ship classes).
The League player should have access to a special line of technology or civics that is... essentially, its like a progression. Step 1, step 2, step 3, League Unification. So these are steps along the line of slowly bringing the different races together. Each of these steps will have a couple of extra benefits, and each represents adding another race or two to the League.
So lets say you're playing as the Drazi, which allows you to construct the drazi line of ships (Star Serpents, Strikehawks, Sunhawks). You then get the first step towards League Unification (be it a technology or a civic, im thinking a civic). This will allow you to build a couple of new UU ships, one for each of the new races, as well as having boosts to culture and commerce.
Each further step will add another UU ship or two from the next set of races, and some additional benefits.

Here's my thinking - i'm presenting it as a set of Civics that only the League player will be able to access.

(Basic)
No effects.

(Step 1)
+10% Culture
+10% Commerce
+10% Maintenance Costs (to simulate the effects of beaurocracy)
Allows construction of (Scout and Corvette class League ships, assuming that all the necessary technologies for those ships have been researched.)

(Step 2)
+10% Culture
+20% Commerce
+20% Maintenance Costs
+20% War Weariness (to simulate the fact that they dont quite trust each other, you'd have more civil unrest and such)
Allows construction of (Scout, Fighter, Corvette, Frigate class League ships)

(Step 3)
+15% Culture
+25% Commerce
+25% Maintenance Costs
+25% War Weariness
+1 Unhappiness (Again, simulating mistrust)
Allows construction of (Scout, Fighter, Bomber, Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer class League ships)

(League Unification) (Would require the construction of a Wonder, i think, which would also double as something like the Forbidden Palace)
+20% Culture
+25% Commerce
+25% Maintenance Costs
+25% War Weariness
+2 Unhappiness
Allows construction of (All League ships).




PIRATES, RAIDERS, GOODIE HUTS
Goodie Huts should be, i think, a wrecked First Ones ship of some sort.

Pirates and Raiders, well... I gots an idea for that

As we know, during the epic Civ4 game, the roaming barbarian units get stronger based on what Era the players are in. Lets do the same thing here, but make it follow the Bab 5 timeline a little bit.

So here's some ideas for Eras, and the pirate/raider ships that could appear during that era.

Age of Discovery
-Renegade (just a crappy little attack ship thing).

Age of Expansion
-Dilgar Raider (Since the Dilgar were obviously pretty low-tech, compared to other races).
-Dilgar Destroyer

Age of Conquest
-Stribe Raider
-Rogue Dilgar (a weak ship, by this point)
-Pirate Raider
-Rogue Narn cruiser

Age of Shadows
-Shadow Scout
-Shadow Battlecrab

Age of Fire
-Shadow Battlecrab
-Vorlon Cruiser
(If you're feeling really nasty, maybe make a really rare appearance of the Vorlon Planetkiller )

Age of Ashes
-Rogue Centauri Cruiser
-Rogue Drakh Raider (since you said the Drakh would be playable..)







These are the ideas i've had so far - hope they prove helpful or useful in the production of this mod. Good luck with it, i'll certainly be cheering you guys on

MickyKitsu, one nit I needed to pick;

Age of Expansion
-Dilgar Raider (Since the Dilgar were obviously pretty low-tech, compared to other races).
-Dilgar Destroyer

Click to expand...

The Dilgar were NOT minor. if not for the intervention of the Earth Alliance the Dilgar would have conquered the League of Non-Aligned Worlds. They went extinct when the EA drove them back to their homewolrd and then its star went nova. See the Episode Deathwalker dealing with the Dilgar Warmaster Jahdur.

@ Premier Valle, FF has one ginormous problem when it comes to the Worldbuilder, the systems only show as dotted lines. Jebus27 came up with a way to actually get them in the proper place but it is a ROYAL pain to do. So if you want a scenario based on that map, it is going to take one heck of a lot of work to do.

See this thread:
FF System/Planet editing tutorial




Cheers, Thorgrimm

A lot of stuff to respond to since last night. Premier Valle first -

- Since Civ is a "what if" game, I think we should add some worlds of the "League" (we need more than just 4 civs), but only the more representative ones: Drazi, Brakiri, Vree, Pak'ma'ra, and Markab. However to "honor the major B5 powers" we could only add a single leader for this ones.

Click to expand...

I Agree, a choice of leaders for the 4 major races but if you choose any of the league worlds you get the one leader. The Drazi, Brakiri, Vree, Pak'ma'ra, Markab and Dilgar should make up the Non Aligned player options.

The concept of "Aircraft carriers" (or should I say Spacecraft Carrier) doesn't exist in B5, however, Capital ships are often capable of carrying fighters/bombers, I believe that some ships should be able to carry a single squadron and through promotions make them able to carry more. I think that it would be overpowered to make them able to carry more squadrons right from the start.

Click to expand...

The early Earth Alliance corvette carried no fighters and the early cruisers only carried 1 squadron of fighters. So in keeping with this we could have promotions that give extra fighter bays or alternatively a random event that gives an increase to the number of squadrons that can be carried by a particular ship class. Improvements in technology could also lead to an increase in the number of squadrons a ship class can carry. E.G researching Fighter Doctrine would mean all ships built thereafter can carry an additional squadron or 3.

- Talking about traits, should we use a "trait(s) per leader" approach (like the standard game), a "trait per civ" approach (like Final Frontier) or a mix of both having a common trait for each civ and another trait for each civ leader??

Click to expand...

I Think each race and leader should have a trait. EG. Humans could have the Imperialistic trait. If Sheridan is the leader he could be Charismatic. This gives the race it's characteristics. As an alternative, the players could be allowed a choice of what their racial trait is but the leaders have a fixed trait.

EDIT: Also, we need, System names, I have a star map in a B5 book, I'll post it later, there is plenty of system names for the EA, however there are little for the rest.

Click to expand...

In my initial proposal I named all of the Worlds/systems i could find that had featured in both the B5 CCG and the TV series. A lot of systems just have sector numbers so they could be randomly generated once a player runs out of know system names. Of course, players would still have the option to change the name of the system to anything they wanted.

Onto Thorgrimm now -

If you ever played the B5 Wars miniature game they added the concept of Carriers and Missile Boats to the Universe. And since it was officially licensced by Warner Bros, most folks consider their additions as canon. And I do have at least one carrier model for all the major races and even a couple for the minor ones.

Click to expand...

One of the shows featured a very Large Psi Corps Mothership in hyperspace (can't remember the particular episode) so i would agree with you that Carriers should be allowed and able to carry a fair number of fighters. At present working from http://www.b5tech.com/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/earthcapships.html you can see the numbers of fighters carried by the various classes of ships. All that needs to be agreed on is how many fighters make up a unit for conversion to the mod. Is a unit/squadron 6 fighters or more? 6 would be simplest as it would mean that the Hyperion class cruisers carried 1 unit and the destroyers all carried 6. This would mean the carrier should hold at least double the amount of a destroyer. We can argue about this later

Back to Premier Valle -

A little update: I just made the flags for the major powers.

And the starmap: [its BIG!]

Click to expand...

There looks to be a lot more systems named there than are included in the B5 CCG or were mentioned directly in the series. We should make the most of the names and use them wherever we can. I'm not too worried about the map being an exact replica of the universe. Who would want to play the same map over and over? I Like Chaos, random maps every time.
However i know that some people like to play on the same maps eg earth. So if it's possible we should provide a 'historical' map as well as a random map.

Finally we have MickyKitsu -

HYPERSPACE & INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL.
For starters, I'm of the opinion that each race should be locked into their home star system and the eight squares around it until they learn hyperspace technology, so therefore hyperspace tech should be available right towards the start of the tech tree.

This can be done by making a "deep space" terrain, which has a seriously high movement penalty, AND, a very high chance of destroying any units that enter it. So its possible to move thru it, but only briefly.

OK, so, how do they explore? Well, create a "Probe" unit, which is like a cross between a fighter and a missile, in that you can do a recon mission with it (only short range though), but that mission destroys it. In this way, the player can get some early exploration done.

Now, we need some way to enable hyperspace tech to make that 'deep space' terrain traversable. So how about we set it up this way:
When the "jump gate" technology is discovered, the player will get a free Great Person. This Great Person will actually be a disposable Jump Gate builder - his special ability is that you can consume him to build the "Jump Gate" improvement at that system.
A jump gate will allow the construction of Explorer Ships, which would be a National unit, that you're only allowed to have 1 or 2 of. These Explorer Ships would be able to cross the 'deep space' terrain type without any movement penalty and with the danger of losing them severely reduced, which none of your basic ships can safely traverse, so you can use them to explore.

Ok, so we have Explorer Ships, that can leave the system and explore. So you can use those to find other systems. And hey, here's the tricky bit:
Explorer Ships can build "Hyperspace Beacons" which is essentially a road.
By following the Hyperspace Beacons, other ships can have that high movement penalty removed - somehow, we'd also need to have that danger of losing the unit removed too.

So yeah - Explorer Ships can explore, and build beacons, and this will allow your civ to expand, since they should be the only ones who can build beacons.
Explorer Ships can also be consumed in order to create Jump Gates. If we can somehow set it up so that a system requires a Jump Gate in order to be colonised, that'd work pretty damn well

At this point, you can start colonising other systems.

Click to expand...

The Hyperspace gate network was constructed by the First Ones. There is little other information on the history of the jump gates. The Centauri discovered a jump gate within their own system as they started to explore space so we should allow for an early random event that allows for the discovery of a jump gate. This doesn't mean the player knows how to use the technology but it would allow them access to research the technology to use it.
Early human efforts to go out to the stars were using 2 person sleeper ships (as seen in season 2 episode 'The Long Dark') until the Centauri sold them technology and 'allowed' the EA to use the gate network. They were unable to colonise any systems until they had gate access. The only way to reflect this would be to have any colony ships move at speed 1 through normal space where they would be vulnerable to many hazards. Treat it like a Galley going out to sea in Civ III (i think), random chance each turn that the unit is lost.

THE LEAGUE OF NON-ALIGNED WORLDS
Ok, i had an idea that could make the League work as a single civ, but my guess is that it'd take a fair bit of work to actually do... so lets see if it's viable.

The League should have 4-5 leaders availible, each representing one of the major league races - ie. Drazi, Brakhiri, Vree, Gaim, etc.
That leader will have a trait that will allow the construction of THAT RACE'S line of ships (which, i think, should be shortened to only include a couple of ship classes).
The League player should have access to a special line of technology or civics that is... essentially, its like a progression. Step 1, step 2, step 3, League Unification. So these are steps along the line of slowly bringing the different races together. Each of these steps will have a couple of extra benefits, and each represents adding another race or two to the League.
So lets say you're playing as the Drazi, which allows you to construct the drazi line of ships (Star Serpents, Strikehawks, Sunhawks). You then get the first step towards League Unification (be it a technology or a civic, im thinking a civic). This will allow you to build a couple of new UU ships, one for each of the new races, as well as having boosts to culture and commerce.
Each further step will add another UU ship or two from the next set of races, and some additional benefits.

Here's my thinking - i'm presenting it as a set of Civics that only the League player will be able to access.

(Basic)
No effects.

(Step 1)
+10% Culture
+10% Commerce
+10% Maintenance Costs (to simulate the effects of beaurocracy)
Allows construction of (Scout and Corvette class League ships, assuming that all the necessary technologies for those ships have been researched.)

(Step 2)
+10% Culture
+20% Commerce
+20% Maintenance Costs
+20% War Weariness (to simulate the fact that they dont quite trust each other, you'd have more civil unrest and such)
Allows construction of (Scout, Fighter, Corvette, Frigate class League ships)

(Step 3)
+15% Culture
+25% Commerce
+25% Maintenance Costs
+25% War Weariness
+1 Unhappiness (Again, simulating mistrust)
Allows construction of (Scout, Fighter, Bomber, Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer class League ships)

(League Unification) (Would require the construction of a Wonder, i think, which would also double as something like the Forbidden Palace)
+20% Culture
+25% Commerce
+25% Maintenance Costs
+25% War Weariness
+2 Unhappiness
Allows construction of (All League ships).

Click to expand...

I've already covered some of the league stuff earlier but if they are kept as non player races then your step system would work quite well. How about adding something to the pot such as at step 1 they can have a defence treaty with another non aligned race, at step 2 they can have a 3rd non aligned race and so on. Once they have reached step 5 and signed a defence treaty with a 6th race they automatically form the League of Non-Aligned Worlds. To keep the system fair there should be some sort of research needed to increase to each step.

PIRATES, RAIDERS, GOODIE HUTS
Goodie Huts should be, i think, a wrecked First Ones ship of some sort.

Click to expand...

The goodie huts aren't a big favourite of mine for this mod. Agreed there could be random events for scout ships such that they find the wreckage of an alien ship. With a choice of benefits for the discovery. A bonus to a reasearch project or access to a star map. Nothing major. A wrecked First One ship would give the race that found it such a huge advantage it could unbalance the game. I want to try and keep the mod as close to B5's 'realism' as possible.

As for pirates they shouldn't be generated in deep space. They need to come from somewhere. My event suggestion would solve this quite well if it could be worked in. Unless a player deals with the pirate squadron within a few turns they will attract more fighters/light ships to their cause and pretty soon you have a system isolated by pirate activity and a long fight to restore order in the system. The system could even realise the pirates are a better option than staying within the players empire and rebel forming either a new empire or a barbarian/pirate system.

@ Premier Valle, FF has one ginormous problem when it comes to the Worldbuilder, the systems only show as dotted lines. Jebus27 came up with a way to actually get them in the proper place but it is a ROYAL pain to do. So if you want a scenario based on that map, it is going to take one heck of a lot of work to do.

Click to expand...

I Think i covered this bit earlier but if we could do the historical map then the mod has both the flavor of the series and the ability for the players to play blind on a random map. I'm really pleased with the input everyone has been making to this. I just hope we can get it off the ground and into space.

PsiCorps, you really need to read that thread of Jebus27's to see just how difficult it is to add your own star systems, and remember that has to be done for EACH star system. Also, IIRC the EA squadrons were 6 fighters in strength. Below is an incomplete list of ships and their fighter compliments.

Earth Force-1 Carried 4 Presidential Escort Starfuries
The Explorer Class carried 16 Starfuries
The Hyperion carried 6
The Omega carried 36
The Shadow-Omega carried 36
The Warlock carried 42
The Nova carried 36
The Psi Corps Mothership carried 36
The B5 Station carried 48
The Victory carried 56

The ISA Whitestar carried 4 Nial fighters

The Minbari Sharlin carried 15 Nial fighters
The Minbari Morshin Carrier had 48 Nial fighters

The Narn G'Quan carried 12 Frazi fighters

The Centauri Primus carried 12 Sentri fighters
The Centauri Balvarian carrier had 18 Sentri fighters
The Centauri Vorchan carried none

The Dilgar Sekhmet Cruiser carried 30 fighters

The Drazi Firebird carried one as a parasite
The Drazi Sunhawk carried one as a parasite

The Brakiri Avioki Cruiser carried 6 fighters
The Brakiri Tashkat Battlecruiser carried 12 fighters

The Raider Carrier had 21 Zephyr 109 fighters

The Shadow Cruiser carried 40 fighters

The Vorlon Dreadnaught carried 40 fighters


A Li'l something on the Dilgar to show they were definitely not weaker than the others.

The xenophobic Dilgar Empire, faced with extinction when it was discovered their sun was about to go supernova lead a bloody campaign to capture territory and assure the survival of their species between 2229 and 2232. The Dilgar's murderous rampage across the quadrant was lead by the Sekhmet class Heavy Cruiser. This type vessel was the flagship of the Dilgar race and was considered a match for even the advanced warships of the Centauri Republic.

Measuring 1,200 meters in length, this class vessel was armed with numerous weapons, including X-ray Laser cannons similar to Centauri in design, pulse cannons, and heavy plasma cannons. This made the Dilgar Heavy Cruiser similar in power to a modern Hyperion or Omega class Destroyer and their artificial gravity technology and gravimetric propulsion put them on par with the Centauri. Some have even suggested that the Dilgar were more advanced than the Centauri and closer to the Minbari technologically.

The Sekhmet struck fear in every race in the quadrant. Even the blustering Narns backed down from confronting the Dilgar when their own defenses on the Narn colony of Halax VII proved ineffective in the face of the Sekhmet Heavy Cruiser's assault. By the time Narn forces arrived at the fallen colony it was learned that the Dilgar Warmaster Jha'Dur, better known as "Deathwalker", had experimented and infected the entire colonial populace with biogenic weapons, killing almost all the Narn colonists. After this attack, the Narn dared not stand in the way of the Dilgar invasion of the Nonaligned Worlds.

Fortunately for everyone in the quadrant, the Earth Alliance joined the battle against the Dilgar in late 2231 and, together with the surviving forces of the League, beat the Dilgar back to their homeworld. In 2232 the Dilgar were defeated and the Earth Alliance accepted their unconditional surrender. As part of that surrender Earth forces blockaded the Dilgar jump-gate, confiscated all the Dilgar's quantium-40 supplies as reparations and imprisoned the Dilgar in their home solar system. This imprisonment proved to be a death sentence however as the Dilgar's star went supernova a year later, wiping out the threat of a renewed Dilgar conquest.

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Cheers, Thorgrimm

WOW!, lots of new info .

@MickyKitsu

I found the idea of the "probe" a very good one, it'll give the user something to explore some space.

About the "Deep space terrain", I think it is not possible, for that would require us to mess with the map-script used to create the maps, and I bet it is not easy. The closest thing to your idea that I think could work is changing the "empty space terrain" adding to it movement penalties.

The way you talk about the hyperspace with beacons replacing roads... great!, and just like in FF where the end of a warp/jump lane is located a different graphic appears, so there we could place a jump gate.

And yes, the Dilgar are (ejem...were... ) far from "weak".

@ Thorgrimm
I was just talking about System Names, it wasn't my intention to create such a map,... but now that you mention it, it could be used for an scenario, but that should be left for a post-release moment, the core B5 game comes first .

@PsiCorps
How could I forget to mention the Dilgar...
Yes, of course, only some capital ships could carry fighters.
And about the Traits, I agree, a trait per race plus a trait per leader, what does everyone else think?

I confirm that a squadron has 6 crafts; now, on the issue of squadrons per ship, I think that some capital ships should be allowed to carry 1 squadron, and since we have agreed on the existence of carriers those would be the major fighter deployment tool, otherwise a small fleet could be overpowered (that, or we'll realy have epic battles ), comments?

@Thorgrimm
Some of the ships you mentioned I do not recognize, such as the Morshim, and others, I assume those are the miniature game ones, looking forwar to meet them!

Now onto the news!:
Here is a JPEG with the Tech Tree I posted some time ago.

I havent changed some names, such as "ascension" for "Beyond the Rim",
with hyperspace techs so late in the tree we have guaranteed that there won't be Deep Space colonization, only "near space" colonization would be feasible, however hyperspace should be available by mid-game (IMHO) so what do we do about it?, perhaps expanding the tech tree, or just rearranging it?
There are more techs in PsiCorps list, do you think those should be added? and were? (many of those I left out because I couldn't found were to place them).
I have added succesfully two techs into the FF tree (of course these do nothing, but they work!)
I have made a few more advances, I'll post some screens later.

About the goodie huts, I like them, but true, to find a ship of the first ones is overpowering he who finds it, however we can take some steps into it, an event, were the ship goes rogue (and becomes a Pirate/barbarian) like in Ganymede, or we could set it simply to some advance in the actual research or a free tech; other than that, yes goodie huts should have simple things.

Early human efforts to go out to the stars were using 2 person sleeper ships (as seen in season 2 episode 'The Long Dark') until the Centauri sold them technology and 'allowed' the EA to use the gate network.

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That is the reason why I put "Early Space Exploration" after "Suspended Animation", however MickyKitsu's idea of the probe should be available after Fussion has been researched (much like the real "Voyager I and II").


Alright, I'll go and grab something to eat, and then I'll take some screenies.

Since the map is going to be a scenerio, you can add custom terrain, (I think). Just set is as unpassabe, and make some ships be able to pass it with the right tag in the unitinfos xml file.
When suggesing unit ideas and techs, please put it in spoilers. It is really annoying trying to scroll down the page with all the information.

@ PremierValle, thats a good tree so far, but I think we would need to seperate the weapons development from the civilian developments. Since a lot of weapons and defenses would have not very much to do with the branches you have in that tree so far.

For example, Gauss weaponry, or also known as rail weapons, has not a thing to do with fission power and everything to do with superconducting and energy transference.

This is just my dos centavos though.



Cheers, Thorgrimm

Hi, I'm back after a bath and a meal .

Ajidica said:

Since the map is going to be a scenerio...

Click to expand...

I share PsiCorps idea of having random maps, however a scenario (or several) are not (by any chance) left out of the ecuation.

Thorgrimm said:

@ PremierValle, thats a good tree so far, but I think we would need to seperate the weapons development from the civilian developments. Since a lot of weapons and defenses would have not very much to do with the branches you have in that tree so far.

For example, Gauss weaponry, or also known as rail weapons, has not a thing to do with fission power and everything to do with superconducting and energy transference.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right!, the single reason for me to put "rail weapons" after "fission" is because of the energy requiriments of such weapons, but none other than that; I like the Idea of your new techs :
- Supercondutors
- Energy Transference
(after all, every energy weapon deployed should need these two techs)

More comments please!

--------------------
Now, into the update, some of the screenshots you have already seen, but I have improved over the old ones:

Minbari Federation in Civilopedia:


Minbari Leader Valen in Civilopedia:


The "Play Now" Screen, featuring the Minbari


The "Dawn of Man" Screen (when the game starts)


The Minbari Home system "Minbar" (The name is automatically set)


Two Techs added to the tree

As you can see, Solar Panels 2 require Solar Panels, what you can't see is that I added so "Gravity Training" is also a requiriment of Solar Panels 2

The Flags - (Only the Alpha channel is required for the flags)


And the flags In-game


As you can see, the flags are all in the same colors, this is because I used the Minbari Civ to test all of the flags. Moreover we need to define what colors use each civ.

A little INFO on colors (please read)


So we need to define the colors for each civ, I suggest:
EA: Dark_Blue, Yellow
Minbari: Blue, ???
Narn: Red, ???
Centauri: Purple, Yellow

As for the League Flags and colors I have no idea at all

Maybe you can use this text below for the description for Valen instead of what you have.

During the Minbari's greatest hour of need he appeared in 1260 during the First Shadow War, where the Vorlons and Minbari joined together to fight against the chaotic race, the Shadows. Valen transformed Minbari society as he reorganized the caste system, created the Grey Council and formed the legendary Rangers. He became the first Entil'Zha and, all at once, a religious, military and cultural leader. He is revered by members of all three Minbari castes.

After the great war ended, questions arose about Valen due to the rumor he was "a Minbari not born of Minbari" and where he had come from. He and his family escaped Minbar and went into hiding; their later descendants returned to the Minbari homeworld. Little is known of Valen after he left Minbar. Valen eventually disappeared and was never seen or heard from again.

His name is spoken reverently ("In Valen's name" being a great oath) a thousand years later.

Click to expand...

Cheers, Thorgrimm

Thorgrimm said:

Maybe you can use this text below for the description for Valen instead of what you have.

Click to expand...

That was demonstrating text only, but thanx, your text is better than what I was thinking .

Here is a second version of the Tech Tree:
Three technologies added:
- Superconductors
- Energy Transference
- Thrust Vectors
One Tech Renamed:
- Ascension -> Beyond the Rim
Some dependencies have been altered/added

A couple more things:
Missiles:

Planetary Defense Grid


This last two items are just my opinion and I'm looking forward for your comments.
So any comments on the tech tree or the other Items?

PsiCorps, you really need to read that thread of Jebus27's to see just how difficult it is to add your own star systems, and remember that has to be done for EACH star system.

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just finished looking through this. What a nightmare.

The EA used the Global Orbital Defence (G.O.D.) satellites A player could build these in a system but they would be immobile. If you wanted to move one you would need to transport it to the required destination. You could use these in addition to the ground forces i suggested. This would make taking a system something something to be dreaded. A lot like peeling an onion.

PsiCorps said:

just finished looking through this. What a nightmare.

Click to expand...

Yes it is. Thats why pre-defined scenario maps are almost out of the question. Since every single pre-placed star system has to go through that process to work.



Cheers, Thorgrimm