Deity Fun II - Qin the Dazzling Man [Fractal, Random leaders, normal speed]

Manco Capac

Friday,13 June,I Collapse
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Mar 1, 2010
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Hiya folks,

after 20 days of the first installment of Deity Fun, the second has arrived.
Indeed, nothing so special comes along the serie except maps are tried and often won (always won?).

Another particularity is you won't find EVER (or really rarely) following leaders:
-Huayna Capac
-Sitting Bull
-both Egyptian leaders
-Pacal II
-often Willem

The reason is personal and has to do with playing with leaders that does not have a powerful early units that only pushes me to choke (which is my speciality). Willem, I don't like him. :p

This serie name comes from this game where it ended to be no fun because of its higher than usual difficulty.

The settings deviates from stardard only in mapsize and map type.
Being large instead of standard changes a lil' bit the experience but not so much.
Fractal is the mapscript presently (but not forever), which was the favorite of ol'times.
Being verified means you normally won't hit a wall of bad unbalance.


==========================================================

RNG had to decide which leader we will move to the summit:

Qin Shi Huangdi, the awesome builder of shiny wonders.

The start:
Spoiler :

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/ib9nhs.jpg[/IMG]
Oh noes, an obsolete start. At least many rivers and FP, or is there something else...?


Settings:
Spoiler :


The game need BUFFY mod quite unfortunately for you because I usually send end games to infamous HoF board. So, you can't use worldbuilder.

No worries if someone wants to play earlier save, I will edit and show how to make autosaves turn by turn and more than few saves without automatic erasing as well.

Now, show me Qin's worth, his superiority! Don't forget he's a classy man, compared to the infamous Shaka. :lol:

Those who participate:
  • Pixiejmcc - Unknown fate.
  • Gkey - Domination (by default because of sheer number of cities)
  • Lymond - Almost reached cultural victory, but green-eyed Gilg prevented his loss.
  • Htadus - Unknown fate and save. :p
  • BornInCantaloup - Unknown fate but tend to win.
  • PeteJ - Unknown fate.
  • shakabrade - Winning state. Victory not determined.

------------------------

My own shadow just here.
 

Attachments

  • AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000 - Deity Qin.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Never the egyptians? :(

Warrior SE and maybe on the wine, or burn maybe two turns and scout more. Settling in place would result in an awful slow opening unless there's something right next to the cow, which is unlikely given the start generator algorythm.
 
Never the egyptians? :(

Warrior SE and maybe on the wine, or burn maybe two turns and scout more. Settling in place would result in an awful slow opening unless there's something right next to the cow, which is unlikely given the start generator algorythm.

Spoiler :
There's a nice spot close by. Keep it hush hush.


Can somebody give me a Cho-Ko-Nu 101?

Spoiler :
I really can't make them work for me. If you get them before your opponent gets feudalism or machinery (and so long as they don't have elephants - well horse archers are a slight pain also). Anyway... supposing your opponent doesn't have any of those easily gotten techs/units I'm sure they are very effective! I know there's the whole avoid fishing and Great Scientist your way to them... IME somethimes that is effective sometimes not. On this occasion I simply teched my way to machinery. I had just 5 cities which helped the tech rate and got machinery in 25AD which felt reasonably fast. This wasn't a beeline, I started off going for aesthetics to keep up in tech. May be that was a mistake. I know you can get it a lot earlier with the Great Scientist gambit. I waited until I got construction and a few catapults before attacking. I'm sure that was a mistake. I only really needed the catas to take down cultiural defences and without the bombard promotion they are very slow at that :p In hidsight it was a mistake to go for Willem I think. He teched to Machinery and Feudalism quickly and his front city had 100% cultural defence (or whatever the correct term is). But he's always a juicy target... founding religions, building wonders tech whoring.
 
Spoiler :
There's a nice spot close by. Keep it hush hush.


Can somebody give me a Cho-Ko-Nu 101?

Spoiler :
I really can't make them work for me. If you get them before your opponent gets feudalism or machinery (and so long as they don't have elephants - well horse archers are a slight pain also). Anyway... supposing your opponent doesn't have any of those easily gotten techs/units I'm sure they are very effective! I know there's the whole avoid fishing and Great Scientist your way to them... IME somethimes that is effective sometimes not. On this occasion I simply teched my way to machinery. I had just 5 cities which helped the tech rate and got machinery in 25AD which felt reasonably fast. This wasn't a beeline, I started off going for aesthetics to keep up in tech. May be that was a mistake. I know you can get it a lot earlier with the Great Scientist gambit. I waited until I got construction and a few catapults before attacking. I'm sure that was a mistake. I only really needed the catas to take down cultiural defences and without the bombard promotion they are very slow at that :p In hidsight it was a mistake to go for Willem I think. He teched to Machinery and Feudalism quickly and his front city had 100% cultural defence (or whatever the correct term is). But he's always a juicy target... founding religions, building wonders tech whoring.

Spoiler :

I'm really glad you give a try to this map; I think it is a touchy map where you get it or fail. And willem was absolutely the wrong opponent because he is the said runaway (oh well I haven't said yet). SB is the second runaway (I'm sure you already met him).
You see cho-ko-nu wars aren't always the obvious when rolling the chinese; I did not choose that path (my own shadow which is done prior to the thread and it is not necessarily wins will be posted 15 days later and means; that moment you'll see what I have done for comparison; no spoiler to anyone now :)).
Anyways, does it mean you'll never get a hold of him, no you definitely can hit him hard, but must be at a better moment.

Here's a hint who you should attack; the diplomacy table has a nice supposedly useless feature I called bragging function where the stronger AI (usual on deity) will brag about their strongest units. Verify it often with your neighbours; I did and made my choice quite early and it paid quite much!
 
Never the egyptians? :(

Warrior SE and maybe on the wine, or burn maybe two turns and scout more. Settling in place would result in an awful slow opening unless there's something right next to the cow, which is unlikely given the start generator algorythm.

Oh ahcos...I know how people like some civs but I'm in a personal crusade to learn deity without using awesome leaders but often medium or mediocre leaders. I admit Qin is no mediocre at all, but for the first installments, I am lax.
I want to learn non-HoF games with seldom suboptimal starts. The firsts of the series are mild for the moment (the first installment was easy for some and that is fine given it was intended to be fun). But as the serie goes, possibly it will go harsher as I'll get along deity more easily.
But if I persistently use good to awesome leaders like Pacal II (see the most recent AZ's vids; that's what I want to avoid knowing my addiction about choking), HC, Hatshesup, Darius, etc. Or sometimes even good leaders with good tech combo and good traits; willem is one example and Hannibal too (not mentioning the interesting HA).

Sure it doesn't happen all the time to get all the stars aligned to use nice UU, but I wish to avoid it altogether.

Indeed, once I get a decent Toku or Charlemagne, be sure this will get straight in the series.

BTW, will you give a shot to this game? The last I saw from you was a certain elepult...give a try, it is more fun than you might think. But for the third instalment that comes 15 days from now, that's a different story. :ack:

Now that think my list of leaders to avoid is quite short: I forgot the romans and the persian. Yes the romans are overrated, but can be devastating against a single neighbour if iron is found.

Wah? Did he spit in your cereal? Because he has to be one of my favourite leaders! Why the hate?

Now to see if my PC can handle a large map!

Not him, but Pacal II once. I sure hate that guy after a certain experience.
No hate, but avoidance. It's time I shoot in my leg and stops playing spoiled with gems starts and good leaders.
 
Come on! Give it a try...the first installments are meant to be easier.

Don't you want to learn diety...

Be careful with NW for the warrior as you will have to settle on that FP and that is no good with so few food.
 
I would have to change too much of my typical diplo game. That is why I die(on)ty.

I was considering on settling in place or settling on wine. Wine would give me 3 FP's, 1 unhealthy and several forests to fell.

I am guessing you are implying I would find something tempting to NW but it is not a food source.
 
Spoiler :

I'm really glad you give a try to this map; I think it is a touchy map where you get it or fail. And willem was absolutely the wrong opponent because he is the said runaway (oh well I haven't said yet). SB is the second runaway (I'm sure you already met him).
You see cho-ko-nu wars aren't always the obvious when rolling the chinese; I did not choose that path (my own shadow which is done prior to the thread and it is not necessarily wins will be posted 15 days later and means; that moment you'll see what I have done for comparison; no spoiler to anyone now :)).
Anyways, does it mean you'll never get a hold of him, no you definitely can hit him hard, but must be at a better moment.

Here's a hint who you should attack; the diplomacy table has a nice supposedly useless feature I called bragging function where the stronger AI (usual on deity) will brag about their strongest units. Verify it often with your neighbours; I did and made my choice quite early and it paid quite much!

Spoiler :
Well I tried again (something I don't really mind doing but it is definitely an advantage once you know the map) and this time bulbed Machinery. Its so hard to remember to make sure you don't tech or trade Fishing! Anyway this time I had Machinery in 275BC. Self-teching Aesthetics slowed me down a bit. It would have been nice to have stone in order to pick up some failgold. Declared on Willem just before the new millenium. Its now 600AD and he's a gonner. I just have to be careful he doesn't peace vassal. Not sure where I'll take it from here... I should really have a plan :p
 
Absolute zero? Please come back, I am bored

Eh? Not sure if this was a dig at Tachywaxon but I like his approach. Like he says, winning with deity with a strong leader is one thing but to really learn how to play its good to have a challenge :) But then I love AZ's vids too and he does play weak leaders as well.
 
Come on! Give it a try...the first installments are meant to be easier.

Don't you want to learn diety...

sometimes I really wonder about this point...if i really want or don't. To me this game is about FUN first...and somewhere on the line emperor-immortal-deity is less and less fun and looks like more and more work...

that said... Qin is certainly good leader which offers Eng beeline
 
BTW, will you give a shot to this game?


Really too short on time to play Deity right now. I am stomping Immortal for fun, but Deity is just so tedious and often frustrating with runaway AIs and peacevassaling. Immortal isn't really a challenge, but at least i don't get frustrated if i do the right decisions and still lose because of OMGWTFIMBA 17+ city AIs that cap their whole continent. I play fractal, fyi, so yes, that happens - too often, actually.

If it was Pangea i'd maybe try it, but fractal just isn't made for Deity unless you're really lucky with the land distribution. Some of the more recent IMM maps i've played would've been lost on Deity from turn 1 given my land and the AI's. Not implying your map is just like that, but even if it's perfectly shaped Deity's still very time consuming. Maybe i'll change my mind, who knows.
 
I played the start of this one. I probably won't continue on until after my gandhi game but I couldn't resist playing out the start.

475bc:
Spoiler :

I made the decision to settle the wine which turned out to be the best spot by far. Early tech path was hunting>AH>wheel>pottery to get cottages out early. This capital will be a really nice cottage spot later on. Then I researched mysticism for border pops, then decided to take a stab at the oracle. Probably not a great choice with industrious neighbors but I ended up getting it in 1640bc and took code of laws. I went for aesthetics after grabbing BW but a few turns in Willem started plotting war, so since I didn't have copper and iron was a gamble I decided to go for horse archers. Willem declared on ramesses instead so now the plan I think is to attack Stalin. He has some decent land and he will eventually go after me anyway so I should probably get him out of the way while he is weak.

My land:
Spoiler :


The tech situation:
Spoiler :




 

Attachments

  • Tachywaxon BC-0475.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Well, I tried to play this, but...

Firstly I needed to rename CvGameCoreDLL.dll to make BUFFY actually work instead of BULL.
Secondly when save finally loaded, there was no interface.
Spoiler :


And thirdly when I still wanted to give this a try (ctrl-R to view resources, B to build city, space to end turn, etc) after pressing end turn I was waiting for like 6 min to proceed to turn #2.

It probably have something to do with BUG (I see some Buginit() already running message at top of the screen), but BUG is installed in Custom Assets and might be compatible with mods...

In addition I see Civilization already consumes 3 times more RAM and CPU then it usually does. Something with above mentioned issues + big map make it not possible to run on my box.
 
OK switching BUG's Custom Assets folder to original one did the trick.
Weird though, the whole point of BUG Custom Assets setup was making it compatible with whatever additional mod you run.
OTOH that Buginit() already running message I got previously, could mean that BUFFY 3.19.003 already contains some version of BUG and therefore BUG was failing to start while creating these UI issues and consuming more RAM and CPU.

Never mind, it works and I play this right now.
 
GKey - BUFFY is BUG/BULL...the issue is that they conflict. It's possible the reason is due to being different versions of the same mod or that BUFFY includes the small HOF mod. BAT works fine with BUG/BULL active. BUFFY does need to be updated.
 
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