The Deity Challenge Line-up #20 - Spain - Valentine day Resurrected

Prickly is definitely the word. You announced it would be easy and everyone said it was easy, so I see no problem there. I do however think 6, maybe 5 and 8, were easier but that sapped absolutely none of the fun factor, simply optimised the player's Civ UAs.

I personally loved the map, my finishing time was alright but I definitely think I would have done it faster with a slightly different setup. Spain is definitely hit and miss, if there were no natural wonders around, then everyone would complain how we were forced to play a generic civ, innit :p
 
I swear, I am not going to play maps with Dido on them. :lol:


The AIs left so many wonders: MoH, Colossus, Sistine, Hanging gardens (no tradition AI). I then grabbed a risky Petra after NC on turn 75. Only china was really a threat to it though. Everything else was easy to get as I was so ahead in tech: Pisa, Chichen Itza, GT, PT, TM, SoL. Maybe I can get my sub 200 SV victory out of this map :)
In my game, Chichen Itza was gone on t58, and MoH was gone even earlier. Catharine literally rushed PT. I mean, what the actual hell. She also built Taj Mahal out of all people.

Anyway, I got a t260 CV. Could have been faster, but I went full Exploration because screw Rationalism. Sadly, Exploration finisher is utter crap, and not taking Rationalism came back and bit me in the butt. Also, I forgot to build Musician's Guild because I was watching TV. I just can't deal with these 2-minute turn times anymore. :mad:

I will try to go for sub-200 SV (t210 is where my games start having ridiculous turn times), though I am generally too lazy to calculate RA's, time Rationalism opener with Renaissance, etc., so I doubt I will accomplish that. lol
 
I hope you realise I'm not having a go at you, in fact I feel bad for you, but I just don't know how you can be having 2-minute turns. Maybe something is wrong with your PC? I'm playing on a MacBook which in reality can actually only barely handle the game, and even then, on T250+, the turn times for all the AIs combined is about 10 seconds. Perhaps you're exaggerating slightly?

But yes, I agree with you, Exploration is by far the weakest tree. It doesn't actually help with anything. Taking the opener for the Louvre is OK-ish, but probably sub-optimal in most cases. i.e. you should probably put that policy into Freedom, Aesthetics or Rationalism for a faster CV. I think in the future I'll only open Exploration if I win the WF and have a completely 'spare' SP.

But, like you, I have taken to playing without Rationalism cuz its really boring. My favourite thing to do now, when I'm not going for a DomV, is a Futurism victory. It's pretty fun. Did you try it?

Also, do you have a screenshot so I can add you to the spreadsheet? :)
 
I hope you realise I'm not having a go at you, in fact I feel bad for you, but I just don't know how you can be having 2-minute turns. Maybe something is wrong with your PC. I'm playing on a MacBook which in reality can actually only barely win the game, and even then, on T250+, the turn times for all the AIs combined is about 10 seconds. Perhaps you're exaggerating slightly?
I am not exaggerating because I actually timed AI turns. I think something happened to my laptop recently. I played the India game and it was fine, but the recent two games with Babylon and this one are just unbearable. Maybe they take longer because I am watching something on my second screen? But I would be too bored playing just Civ. I even watch TV playing DotA sometimes. :crazyeye:


But, like you, I have taken to playing without Rationalism cuz its really boring. My favourite thing to do now, when I'm not going for a DomV, is a Futurism victory. It's pretty fun. Did you try it?
Yes, I have done that. Actually, it could be fun on this map, since you can rush to Radio very fast even without Rationalism and then start massively working guilds. Unfortunately, it's generally hard to pull off on Deity because 250 tourism is just not enough when the AI's are running away with 40k culture. This map actually doesn't have cultural runaways.
 
Oh yeah, a screenshot. As you can see, the game didn't end too well for some ladies. Cardiff is the new capital of China. :goodjob:
 
For a lurker to make a point of saying this to me shows me that I ought to take notice. Perhaps many of you out there think I am excessively sensitive to criticism, and that could be true.

But then the flip side is that for my tenure as host, which ended with this map, I tried very hard to GIVE something to people, and it wasn't always appreciated. So maybe you could also say that there is a reason I am a little bit prickly.

Anyway, if everyone posted sub-T200 victories on this map I would concede it was unhealthily-easy, but only 3 players have done that, and the rest are normal finishing times. So again, hardly 'Immortal', or 'Emperor+' as this has been described. On this point I'm prickly because it's just inaccurate. A lot of people talked about difficulties with Cathy on this map. The terrain going down into the Chinese/Celtic peninsula certainly wasn't easy.

Anyway, thanks for your POV, but maybe if you were hosting and not lurking, you might possibly find you had a different one? :)

Was just trying to point out that some times when people make posts, they are merely observations, not direct attacks at you. Same goes for my post :). Seems like the overwhelming majority appreciated your hosting and your maps. Most rational people concede that determining difficulty on any given map is difficult. You chose to take the criticism of a few over the appreciations of many.

As for hosting over lurking... do not have the skill, time or desire. I love lurking these threads, you can learn a lot... recently you just have to sift through the petty arguments about the intended map difficulty.
 
Thanks for your thoughts, gunnerxtr. Is that you in the photo doing some pirouette above the water?
 
t240 SV

Spoiler :

Largely uneventful affair with only 2 wars, one when I took Cathy's Piety finisher GP and when Lizzy DOWed me(as in the screen-shot). Thanks to ToA & Petra I generated a GE before I could generate a GS so probably could've shaved some turns of this. Planed to do a SV using what I've learned in the Can someone explain exactly how bulbing mechanics work ? and that seemd to work.


 
Well, I feel like I've broken game :king:

I used mostly futurism strategy - normally it shouldn't work on deity but on this super OP map things are different.

The result would be even better if Russia didn't declare war on me (so I had to build units instead of wonders for few turns) or I sold cities (didn't want to).

I tested different things in this game so I reloads few times but even without it result wouldn't be much worse. :)
 

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What's the idea ? prebuild all wonders that pop a GWAM and time guild pops after futurism ?.

Not really, I delayed only two GP, just this map allowed for super early futurism (~130T) and obviously 250 tourism on 140T is worth much, much more than on 240T
How much do you realistically get ?

I guess you'd still need hotels + some GM.

I think I spawn about 8-10 GWAM after futurism so about 2000 -2500 tourism - nothing on 200+T but on 130-160T things are different ;)

World religion and hotels were enough, I had three GM but only first give me some tourism, second just cut down three turns and third as shown on screenshot remained unused
 
Nicely Done IronfighterXXX!! Amazing how fast your finish was for CV on Deity Stand/Stand but I figured we would see some really fast finish times on this map. It will be tough for anyone to knock you off the top of the Deity CV Leaderboard now! What is the record for fastest CV on Stand/Stand Deity 8 Civs / 16 CS's?
 
Nicely Done IronfighterXXX!! Amazing how fast your finish was for CV on Deity Stand/Stand but I figured we would see some really fast finish times on this map. It will be tough for anyone to knock you off the top of the Deity CV Leaderboard now! What is the record for fastest CV on Stand/Stand Deity 8 Civs / 16 CS's?

i want to say glory7's successful SS CV on diety. forgot how fast it was though. it might not have been t160s fast though. t188 maybe? but it wasnt with Spain wonders start either.
 
OK so i've won on t250 with a diplomatic victory,could've been much much faster if i have not been so uncertain about which VC to pursue,i think i've literally changed my mind during the play time like dozens of time ^^ ended with a DV(allied all but 1 cs ,no globalization but had FP,which is why i had enough votes)because it was fastest for me..
Could've won on the first vote 20ish turns before,but what the heck,i am still a noob when it comes to those delicately timed techs and sp's in the late game..
However this sexy sexy map carried me all the way,and this is actually my fastest win on Deity Stnd/Stand setting,so i am ok with that:)
Thanks again for the map,it was tremendous ammount of fun for me,ill share the details in my full report later this evening or tomorrow.
Cya on the next challenge(probably Byzantium map ,trying CV:) )and thanks again for this beautiful map!

Ps:Wonderwhoring swayed me away from my initial plan of SV^^,ended with 14 wonders which is also my new record on Deity:) petra t60 ToA t35,fun times!
 
I was thrilled to finally get a Spain map in which i actually find some NW in the first 20 turns.
Settled on turn four i belive NW on the silver(desert hill),adjacent to a mounatin,got pop ruin,rushbought a settler ,met Jerusalem and Lhasa and then founded my own pantheon(One with Nature).
Built ToA on t35
Spoiler :

Religion t36,lost HG on turn 55(Wu took it)
Spoiler :

Third city was founded on turn 57
Spoiler :

Petra t60
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After that i built Pisa on turn 135,engi'd Taj Mahal and continued to noob about:D
Got t175 plastics which i think is pretty nice stuff ^^
Spoiler :

As i've said before,i've been very distracted by building soo many wonders(damn :D) that i've constantly kept forgetting what VC to choose,got pissed because i've missed the first vote on turn 225 which could have brought me a victory,but my overall play was somewhat sloppy.
Won the world fair,dominated WC ,finished with whooping 75+ happiness
Sp's were full Trad,full Patronage,full Rationalism
Diplomacy in this game was also rather weird i believe i was friendly with all the ladies at some point of the game,and it was very funny actually:p
Got 33 gpt from Wu in peace deal and 22 from Theo(they tag teamed on me,and DoW-ed ,but Wu kept attacking Miln with all sorts of very outdated units,infantry vs, muskets lol,guess that was the reason behind her paying that much in peace deal,but funny thing is i haven't killed 1 single unit of the Byzanthine and they paid 22 gpt in peace deal few turns later...oh well :)
Anyhow i failed the first vote which happened on turn 225 and could have brought me a victory,also bulbed like a true noob,but the empire was too strong,and withstood all of my mistakes ^^ (ended with 3 cities 44 34 33 pop,which is also pretty sweet i guess :d ) anyway,here are some more screenshots and the winning screen ofc:)
Demographics
Spoiler :

Ideological pressure :p
Spoiler :

Wonders
Spoiler :

Winning screen
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Spoiler :


Thanks again for the fun map!:):)
 
Thought if I was going to complete the set of all 4 VCs I should try and get a decent turn time. Not the worst attempt, but I could have done much better with this map.
 

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Spoiler :

This map was a lot of fun. This was the first Deity map where I managed to theme the Sistine Chapel, Hermitage, and Uffizi with art. I had to buy two GAs to do it, and I'm sure I would have been better off using the faith on GMs and could have won much sooner (my last GM bomb was overkill, as you can see in my screen shot).

I figured there was a nearby NW based on the context of the DCL and civ, and went the right direction to find Kilo right away. I settled in the same spot that I see most everyone else did, and immediately bought Kilo and ripped through tradition insanely fast. I wandered my warrior East and was about to circle South when I found the NW and faith CS. I immediately bought a settler and headed to settle near it. I hit a gold ruin and bought a second settler, which I actually settled first right next to my starting location. I settled my original settler on the coast near the crater and I managed to buy the tiles I was getting 16 fpt from two wonders and 75% of an early academy! While I was using my warrior to scout the area around the NW, I stumbled into an unguarded Celtic settler. It became a free worker to chop a granny and library into my city, and more importantly didn't settle in the dirt I wanted. After that I got super aggressive trying to prevent Russia from settling between my cities and wrecking my grand plans. I was building a 3rd settler because I had 400 gold to rush a library and I knew the turf was vulnerable to settling when I spotted the Russian settler with my returning scout. I brought the warrior over and even brought my 2nd scout back from the South to help. I used the settling recommendations from my settler to help me figure out where she was aiming to settle. I settled my 4th city right next to Cathy's settler. I built a 4th settler in Barcelona while the NC was getting built, and plopped my 5th city on the elephants. This dirt was fantastic. Seville lagged a bit in population relative to my settling order, but it did fine working mostly dry plains with a boost from 2 food caravans (one from Petra) and the early science/faith was great.

I decided to keep my religion in house and went mosques then pagodas, plus tithe and RT. Most of the middle game I was hauling in 90+ fpt. Getting that extra 3 happiness per city was great, but what was really fun were the border pops from 4 extra culture in my expos. They popped borders just like a tradition capital, and that saved a ton of gold because my cities grew like weeds. I pissed Cathy off eventually by being so awesome right next to her saltiness, so she converted my capital with a prophet at one point. I got a kick out of having a Spanish Inquisition in Madrid, and kept one there afterwards.

My capital was insane. Because I bought my settlers, I went right to the ToA after scout/scout/worker. There was no need for a monument or shrine lol, and I'd rather have ToA if I can than a granny. I was short of workers early, but ended up with two settler/workers (the second from China) and four more from various steals. Somehow everyone still liked me after taking all of the best land and three early wars for steals, so I kept wonder-building and went culture. I added Petra, Globe (rushed with natural GE from Petra/ToA), Pisa, Sistine, Uffizi (rushed with Pisa GE), Porcelain, Machu (why not?), Eiffel, Broadway (not themed), CR, Sydney, and I had 4 turns left on the Great Firewall when I won. I lost control of the WC for a while when I decided to buy science buildings everywhere and production buildings in my cap, and I wasn't able to propose the IG until too late. You can see from my final screen shot that at 615 production per turn towards it (that was the first turn), I would have won quite easily. I founded the WC and proposed Arts Funding and WF the first two times, then IG on the 4th when I really wanted to propose it for the 3rd. My expos gave me MoH, Oracle, and Brandenburg (why not?). The dirt was so good that I grew all of my cities with only two caravans to Seville and two cargos back and forth between Madrid and Barcelona. After a while Toledo picked up one of Seville's food routes. I kept the other trade routes headed to the culture leaders as soon as I got them, except Wu whom I forgot about until late because she didn't have any coastal cities available to Madrid.

I did a pretty bad job of exploring and only used a single Caravel and Conquistador. I didn't even find the last NW, and I wasn't the first to any after the first two. I kinda approached my navel scouting like it was a pangea map instead of terra. I had no intention of settling any more cities with the kind of clinic I was running with my first 5, even though I think the Great Barrier site was worth settling and the FOY would have made a fun "resort" for my empire.

Cathy and I had a passive-aggressive thing going on, and she backstabbed me. I had plenty of warning from allies, but I was busy winning the WF so I just took a bunch of loans from her (dirty if she did attack, but I can always find a use for gold if she didn't so I didn't feel too bad) and when she did attack I upgraded all of my Xbows to gats with the money. Madrid was in easily defensible terrain, so it was just annoying to lose food/production to her soldiers on my land. After I won the world's fair I used the policy to buff up my army with foreign legions and push her back. Russia actually attacked from two fronts, but she didn't have enough troops to the North to make trouble. England decided to pile on and usually longbows are a real problem, but not when you have gats and foreign legions in the field. I got peace from both pretty painlessly really.

England went Order after I went Freedom, and then Russia went Autocracy. Austria followed me into Freedom, then China went Order (I'm thinking because she was warring a lot and England had some Order influence), and everyone went Freedom after that. I could have won sooner with a DOW/musician bomb, or just paid the 360ish and 4 luxes that Cathy and Wu Zeiten wanted for open borders, but all I had to do was keep playing and I'd win eventually and this game was really fun. Plus Cathy was very unhappy threw the entire end game. I ended up flipping Cathy to Freedom after I dropped a GM on England, and a couple turns later she wanted a DOF again and open borders for only a couple gold. I'm sure she was going to backstab me again based on her troop movements during the whole sequence, but it didn't matter because I had a GM ready to drop on her that turn. I had another GM by China, and out of habit I DOWed her the same turn and bulbed it. But I really could have afforded the insane price she wanted for open borders (it was over 400 gpt without the luxes!) and won without the DOW. I just couldn't have paid both of them what they wanted, but it worked out.

This map was a lot of fun, and I'm tempted to play it again and see how fast of a science win I can get. I dunno though, there was a lot of luck in getting all of that territory claimed before city spamming Russia got in the way and I'd be sad if I didn't get the same cities. Then again, it looks like IronFighterXXX and Acken both were under T200 with 3 and 4 cities respectively, so I guess as long as I put Madrid in the right spot and grab Petra again things will go pretty well.

BTW, a sub-170 CV is just plain bad ass.
 

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I was thinking of an easy approach to the series after months of absence but this is just ridiculous. I don't have a clue what I'm doing and I keep forgetting to check things often enough but it doesn't seem to matter. 85 turns in and as soon as I'll figure out what I should do next I'll finish this but I should probably start the current one instead.

Spoiler :

Almost quit on T3 after I saw the mountain top ruins as I really wasn't about to let bugs tickle me. In extreme lazy mode rather settled by the river rather than started jogging to the hills. Bought a settler as soon as possible, stole a worker from Lizzy which was more due to muscle memory than anything else, recruited Boudicca's ninja settler before barbs and started camping. Scouting was sadly blocked my hefty number of foreign cities.
T35 religion after faith ruin, T65 GS from Liberty, T66 Petra, T80 CS which was decently fast for 5 cities without NC but Cathy had Knights on T71 and enhanced 2nd after Cathy and for a change Theo went Piety & actually managed to get a religion.
T82 Pyramids & Oracle followed by T84 5C NC which is were I stopped this weird game.

Friends with Cathy & Theo while the others are neutral and not a single war in the game apart from my recruitment efforts; no one has even attacked a CS and since this is grandma dominated world I assume everyone is nitting socks.

I'd like to do something leftfield to make this more lively but actually finishing a game is a reasonable time frame is also tempting. Either way I can't see the victory beeing under pressure in any way, shape or form. Being true to Liberty Dom is an option but it prolly leaves the yet uncharted territories, well, uncharted & unused sadly.

Didn't bother with pics at this point - I assume they'd be pretty much like everyone else's.
 
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