The Community Deity Game #5 - Indonesia

I'll sit here and chuckle until you figure it out.
 
T321 CV

Spoiler :




Didn't DoF anyone on my continent so I went for a peaceful game after clearing, razed every non-capital.
Manage to get Oracle and Sistine (GE'd) but lost out on Louvre. GE'd Eiffel Tower as well.

I had to replay this save many times especially the last 100-150 turns in order to get the perfect timing for Internet+International Games+World Religion because Gandhi was too far ahead in science and culture (he would win either science or culture around 335-360 always, also had to make sure he didn't get the firewall which was pretty much rng between him or Poland) so this is probably the best time I could have gotten without replaying from the start. Used 4 GMs (about 38k tourism).

Religion:
One With Nature, Church Property, Cathedrals, Religious Center, Religious Texts, To The Glory of God.

Sacred Sites was taken by the time I got my reformation so I got this one in order to buy some GEs for some key wonders.

Social Policies:
Spoiler :


Having replayed this save I knew I could squeeze in the Exploration towards the end for the achievement so I went for Aesthetics first in order to maximize my bonus.
 
Fydor said:
I am slowly getting better at all this. Although it's turn 140 and I have only cleared 2/3 on my continent. And one after I met others so everyone hates me now. Lol. Blatc if you felt compelled to give some details on the early game, build/policy/army composition I would be grateful :).

Besides that anyone have tips on fighting earlier, I try to rush cb's but either I'm too slow or it seems to take to long to kill the cities. Regardless I'm having a blast. Great map!
Click to expand...

I settled the closest faith mountain and worked that tile constantly. It may not be optimal, but pantheons and religion have gone real fast in some of these CDGs, presumably due to additional AI bonuses. I believe I built scout, monument, granary. I did a 2-city start, with the 2nd city coming from free liberty settler, so I was building archers decently early on.

Policies I've already posted. Early order was left side Liberty, finish Liberty, then Piety until I could open Rationalism.

Army composition I posted earlier. I elected to try and finish (<T100) with composite bows, so teching towards education and not machinery. Realistically, T100 is early enough that getting XBows and actually using them would be extremely difficult, especially with a capital that hasn't grown much.

I enjoy warring with earlier units, as that's what I'm more familiar with in my years playing Civ (1, 2, 3, 5 - don't think I ever played 4). I find troop movement and position more important earlier. While fighting, I suggest you think through what you want your troops to do, which units you can kill off vs. only partially damage, and what tiles you want to finish on and THEN act. Other things to think about: is the city your attacking on a hill (this affects whether a ranged unit garrisoned in it can hit you, if there's hill/forest/etc. in the way); how much damage is the city dealing per turn (add in possible damage from nearby units and evaluate if any of your units can be killed or not on next turn); does this AI have any units that can move >2 tiles per turn (i.e. units you cannot see that can swoop in for the kill)?

Search for a video or thread on working baiting; try and set up situations where you can bait/kill them on consecutive turns. Always make sure you have enough units within range to complete the kill (which requires you position your units well).

Break your war into two categories: killing units outside of their city radius (perhaps within yours) and attacking their city. While there is obviously overlap, once you move units into their city radius your priority should be taking the city down quickly. Unless you have them completely overwhelmed, dividing your attacks being multiple enemy units and city (or cities) can lead to you doing minimal damage to the city(ies) which they recover from and it will be your troops that slowly get worn down. This is less of a concern if you have a large advantage, ex. very early XBows can handle some damage so you can just march them in like Dr. Manhattan.

beetle said:
Did you settle the faith mountain? I got zerg rushed when I tried that.
Click to expand...

I usually try out a few different starts. While I readily admit that leads to the advantage of previous map knowledge, I really enjoy trying out different starts, sometimes very unique ones. On this map, I actually tried a game where I founded 3 faith mountains ASAP, not necessarily because I thought it was optimal, but because I thought it would be fun! Anyway, on this win, yes I settled the nearby faith mountain. I also got zerg rushed in a previous attempt, but they chose a different victim this time around - luck of RNG.
 
Blatc said:
I also got zerg rushed in a previous attempt, but they chose a different victim this time around - luck of RNG.
Click to expand...
After my win, I tried two or three times more -- because I really wanted a better start. No luck whatsoever. There really is a lot of RNG.
 
beetle said:
After my win, I tried two or three times more -- because I really wanted a better start. No luck whatsoever. There really is a lot of RNG.
Click to expand...

There is, but some aspects are controllable. Just as a civ cannot DoF you if they haven't met you (and there must be some # of turns before they'll offer), a civ cannot DoW you unless they've met you and, presumably, you've done something to piss them off. I've played around with purposefully not exploring portions of maps previously, primarily to wipe out civs before meeting the final few and having trading partners. I've also tried to avoid meeting or doing things to piss off closest neighbours. There was a DCL way back where Shaka was our immediate neighbour: I remember getting a map from a ruin that revealed one of his cities, after which I tried to avoid meeting him as I prepared for an early rush (wanted to wipe him out before getting UU) and, additionally, I didn't fully explore the map so a few civs didn't meet me until after Shaka was gone. Anyway, point is between your movement/choices exploring as well as settling, you can control this a bit. On this map, I think my (quick) first expo placement and settler blocking led the N civ to settle close enough to SW civ to catch their attention. When possible, I'll use a few units to 'guide' AI settlers to found in locations that I prefer, or to trap them against my borders.
 
Blatc said:
On this map, I think my (quick) first expo placement and settler blocking led the N civ to settle close enough to SW civ to catch their attention. When possible, I'll use a few units to 'guide' AI settlers to found in locations that I prefer, or to trap them against my borders.
Click to expand...

I think that is the key. On my only play through the first 100 turn, I DoW the SW for worker early and she never settled for peace and was locked into war for 100 turns. As a result of clearing her cities, the other AI hated me and started to DoW as soon as I finished the last city of SW. I would've lost Jakarta if I wasn't ready for them. Things would've been very different if SW DoW any of the N civs. The other thing was I was unable to get or keep CS allied and also had to fight CS armies in my land.

But anyways, the game is nearing its end now and I've conquered all but 1 civ on the other continent. 2 civs with 1 city each, and another about to get revived. Planning to burn as many cities as possible to make spreading religion easier.
 
A - Clear the continent before T100 - 4 points
No, failed to clear until 162

B - Spread a religion to every city on your continent - 4 points
C - Spread a religion to every city on the map - 5 points
Yes to both, it was pretty easy with full piety and Messiah, and even ended up with 3 leftover GPr for holy sites. Every AI cities that weren't converted were razed.

D - Complete the Exploration tree - 4 points
E - Complete the Piety tree - 3 points
Yes to both

Spoiler :

2 city start, DoW Spain for worker and she refused to make peace. She also spammed 5 cities with liberty while warring which delayed my conquest significantly so that it was impossible to meet the goal. Was also unable to get any other AI to join the war and it will be clear that they will DoW me once Spain is done. I was prepared for Arabia's DoW but still it was close due to him allying all the CS on continent one turn before DoW. Was able to end war with Maya to focus on Arabia to make it easier.

Other continent was not peaceful at all, and by the time Maya was eliminated, WC founded so all of them eventually denounced me but it wasn't a problem as the plan was to invade them as soon as I have the tech advantage. India was reduced to OCC pretty early, Poland was eventually defeated by Celts, and I was able to bribe them to war constantly to shut down their tech progression, combined with passing Arts funding.

Started the conquest with Theo since her culture was massive and was actually a culture threat. Once carriers arrived with missile cruisers it was easy to take her cities. Razed her bad cities and converted her rest. Left her with a single city she took from India for the rest of game.

Next took out Celts and resurrected Poland with 1 city. Once Celts were eliminated, focused on converted all her cities and every dig sites on the map to maximize tourism, including all the hidden sites.

Religion: One with Nature, Tithe, Religious Center, Religious Community, Messiah, Sacred Sites. (SS was the best reformation when I reformed which was extremely late)
WC: Won WF, but unable to ally any culture CS so culture was pretty slow. AI passed arts funding, culture to WW, culture to landmarks. Later passed culture to NW due to controlling every NW on the map (2 of them stolen from CS with GG). Poland embargoed every other civs alive except myself. World ideology and world religion. Took Order and ended up with maximum possible tourism after completing piety/exploration. Should've taken happiness from ideology earlier as my happiness was lower than -20 at some point when conquest on other continent started. Only thing that kept cities from flipping was the fact that world ideology was passed already, and that Poland took Order.
IG was never proposed or passed for some reason, and in the end used 1 GM on India by DoWing, but it was not needed in any case due to massive tourism at the end from getting every dig sites and conquering every wonders except 2 cities. It would've ended the game a lot sooner if I conquered the 2 remaining cities but I also have to gift one of the capital to avoid winning DomV.

Only self built wonders was Louvre, Forbidden Palace and Neuschwanstein and some late ones such as Pentagon and Great Firewall when I have nothing else to do.
Also interesting was the fact that AI nuked my cities 4 times, so later also passed Nuclear Non proliferation to stop their nukes.


Spoiler :








 
Blatc said:
There is, but some aspects are controllable.
Click to expand...
I agree that there is a lot more under the player's control than not. In none of my plays did I have the nerve to early worker steal from the AI that I had trouble with. My experience was that if I settled the southern faith mountain that I could not pull the game off. SIP meant not found, so I abandoned those games. I could survive the early game and found only if I settled the northern faith mountain -- but that led to weak production all game.

Sclb said:
T405 cv b,c,d,e
Click to expand...
Nice looking map. How quick do you think you could have had a Dom VC. Did you do anything interesting with the Kris? One play I had an Invulnerable unit fortified on a citadel on a hill just outside my city. That was sweet! Did you pass on the spice islands?
 
beetle said:
Nice looking map. How quick do you think you could have had a Dom VC. Did you do anything interesting with the Kris? One play I had an Invulnerable unit fortified on a citadel on a hill just outside my city. That was sweet! Did you pass on the spice islands?
Click to expand...

I can end it at probably turn 250 if I went for capitals only Dom V, but that is too early for achievement to convert every city and I had to wait for finishing piety+exploration anyway so I took it extremely slow. None of my UU has any interesting upgrades, so gifted them to CS. I only self founded 5 cities. 2 before NC, and 2 others for 2 NW due to happiness problem mid game. So no UA lux. There isn't any interesting spots for good cities other than ones on other continent but there wasn't any space until cities are razed and by that time it's too late for it to do any good.
 
I'm having a classic 'hating every turn up to turn xx' which in this case was ~200 but making 4 front offensive Wars on t235 with xbows is bloody good fun. Achi A went out of the window very early but others might be doable.

---
Minor detail change - I seem to be actually fighting 5 wars, 1 dead civ & 1 DoF just about covers my slightly less than perfect foreign relations and T250 Plastics must be some sort of slowness record.
 
T319 Culture BCDE

A long game even for my odd standards and prolonged mainly by the slow conversion pace and to a lesser degree by me not pauing much attention to details but with 5 turn stints it's tricky to be focused all the time besides the victory itself wasn't under any threat for ages. Still something funny about winning by CV and trying hard to avoid Culture & Tourism.
Sorry about the lack/delay of proper recaps but I've barely had time to play these.
 
Got the pre t100 continent clear achievement. Cleared the continent with archers+CB+spears at t98. Now only the CV waits.(and catching up on techs :lol:)

t98.jpg

Here is my military view.
t98t1.jpg

Here is demographics.

t98t2.jpg


Spoiler :
After seeing the achievement decided to give it a try. First attempt I killed Spain and Arabia but missed Pacal by a few turns at t114.(The fault was in my tech path.)

Second attempt was more of archer rush+CB liberty rush with no other techs involved.

I decided to get only Archery,Mining,AH, and thus a beeline to Construction.(Reached CB tech by t48 with help from Arab caravan.) Also liberty was the SP tree.(In first try got granary opened and found it way too useless as archer army and granary cannot be built in time.)


Cap BO was scout,monument, and then just archers,archers and lots of archers/CBs. It was like the Cromagnus Hun Attila rush with archers-CBs replacing the Hun UU.

Cap was settled on hill near faith mountain and liberty was opened.

I got lucky with a upgrade ruin on the warrior. When I saw a Spanish worker immediately DoWd her(In any case I would have archer rushed her.) Meanwhile got a DoF from Pacal at t27 and accepted it. Sold salt for gold.


Spain was a bit tricky to deal. However I soon found out that just NE of Madrid,(near the cow) there were 2 spots for 2 archers to shoot and then rinse and repeat. I did this from t37. From t42 I got another archer on the mine and then decided to gamble my spearman(the ruin upgraded warrior) near the city. Madrid finally fell to archers and spearman at t50.

I had also reached construction at t48 and started upgrading a few archers. Reaching construction was like the end tech for me so all gold was spent on archers.

Promotions taken were Heal Instantly(if injured),accuracy(most AI caps,expos open terrain) and then Cover 1.

Spain was eliminated at t60 with archer+CB+spearman. At this time I was way over the supply limit and had 40-60% production penalties throughout the game.(to overcome this chopped forests.) Also all religions were gone by this time. I had chosen earth mother as a pantheon.

Next I bullied Bratislavia which made Pacal denounce me and turning hostile. However I left him and instead attacked Arabia(3 cities) with my CB and spearman army. I was in deep negative gpt and my science had stopped. Medina fell shorlty and then Mecca at t83-87 ish. I split my army and sent on to Palenque and one to Damascus. Dowd Pacal and got his cap at t93. Meanwhile Arabia was eliminated at t90 ish. It was getting too intense so made a suicide run at Tical losing a CB. Finally got his last city at t98.:)

It seems that to do a archer rush you cannot even build a granary or extra scouts. Also pillage repair gold mechanic is completely broken. Despite having -32 gpt and 0 gold I can just pillage repair with worker+scout and remove the science penalty.(I knew about this but this was the first game I exploited this obscenely.)



 
It seems getting religion is too RNG. In the first rush all religions went away at t77. In my next successful rush all went away at t52 or something. I wonder what others chose as their pantheon. I had to choose earth mother(salt+iron) due to my strat.
 
So got a very strange mid turn T364 CV when Celts eliminated India.



CDG5.jpg

Achievements were A,B,D,E

I already posted t98 Continent clearing.

So here is the social policy tree.

CDG5SP.jpg

Spoiler :


After I cleared the continent at t98 I had to delete all but a few units. Also settled two more spots and got my 7 city lib empire running.

Game was very slow till t174(also had happiness and gold issues). I had hoped the other civs would find me by t130ish. Instead I had to research Astronomy and sailing techs myself and had to build a caravel to meet Gandhi.

Gandhi was the tech leader with rationalism and was my main concern. I bribed both Poland and Celts to DoW him. In meantime proposed Arts Funding.


Also allied all cultural CS(only 2 were alive).

After my proposal all civs made a DoF with me. They did not know what fate had fallen upon the civs on the other continent.:lol:

Meanwhile oxforded to Radio and built the Eiffel.(Gandhi despite having the tech did not build it for some reason.He instead got Broadway a few turns earlier.)

Next was WF which was won easily with seven decent cities.

I was the only Freedom leader. Others were Autocracy/Order.

I focused on the Aesthetics tree first rather than exploration/Piety as I believe that Aesthetic ultimately is more optimal and gives you more cpt than taking the other two(Basically helps you finish Exploration/Piety earlier than say if you had taken opened up the trees.) Finished Aesthetics at about t280ish.
Then got Exploration and finally at the wee end finished Piety.

In the meantime Theo got eliminated by Celts. Gandhi`s cities started falling to Celts and finally IG was proposed.
The wonders I managed to get were Eiffel,Louvre,Sydney,CN,Hubble.

Poland got the Great Firewall which really delayed my CV. However with about 15,000 faith I got 7 GM with 8600 tourism(IG was won) and bombed all of them on him. (1 more was coming up shortly and had 6k faith for another GM)

Gandhi was about to get GM bombed next before Celts took him out and gave a mid turn victory which crashed my game after the screenshot.:D


 
Blatc said:
Hans Tork, what do you mean by remove the science penalty?
Click to expand...

I would try to give a more detailed explanation with a few pictures later. However here is what makes pillage repair broken.

Say you have 0 gold and you are losing -16 gpt. Now this would hurt your science/reduce it to 0 beakers. In the science beakers icon on the top left side there would be a No Science icon. Note you have no beakers for that turn and no tech would be researched. Now you pillage something and get 10 gold. Immediately you would have gold above 0 and on that turn you would have some beakers to research your tech.

Next turn you again have 0 gold and again you repair and pillage that tile for 10 gold. The 6 gold(you had 10 gold from pillage and you lost -16 gpt) which you did not have in the previous turn is never counted. Instead the game sets 10 gold to 0 and even 2 gold to 0 if you have say -16 gpt. Thus the -16 gpt is turned to a -10 gpt or -2 gpt depending on how optimum you are. The beaker penalty for not having gold and maintaining a negative -gpt is effectively eliminated/reduced by repeatedly pillaging and repairing a tile. Thus doing on multiple tiles and basically waiting for your gold to get lower than your negative gpt can remove the science penalty.

I did this on the tiles of razed down Barcelona and the strat basically helped me stay afloat on gold.


If you are really gamey you can have 1 Horseman and 3-4 workers continuously repairing and pillaging tiles. With pyras you can imagine how much gpt you would make. :crazyeye:
 
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