SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

I doubt Silver City will be able to produce a Great Person before the game ends unless we forget about working all those mines.

What about the lakes? Silver City is small and grow grow grow isn't a terrible strategy either. If decision is too hard, then the player gets to choose unless someone really wants to object I'd imagine.


A galley would probably be a good build. A lighthouse too. Building research isn't that good compared to say building wealth.

I think that city has potential for popping at least a GScientist. 4 grass farm plus 2 high food source. In regards to mines, well silver doesn't count for me.

I think I will maneuver towards science as intended.
But if you really object, I will change my way.
 
I wanted a worker there. Look at all of the farmable land and four happy faces away from anger!

You forgot Stevenson. At the end of my turn-set, he will remain around the pigs. Kaitzilla(successor) may want to start juicy grass farms.
 
Okay, if shulec accepts a galley in Silver City, I will follow the productive pattern (hills).

I am ready to go to the next turn. I wait 2-3 mins.
 
Hey, I know what our fiendish fake Shaka/Mansa team were teching: Construction. I meant Calendar.
They trade technologies at 30 % of other civs knowing that tech.

As predicted, everybody is wanting to trade construction away now thanks to the last techer.

And the Witches of the West teched the remaining two turns in one turn after all.

OK, it IS a decision maker moment!!!
Do I save and stop? Anyways, I am lacking too much sleep these fours days. I have high tolerance, but not inhumane.

I am sure bcool and mabraham wants to see these opportunities.

I will let bcool or anyone else makes the calculus behind tech cost to compare Aesthetics and Calendar...to see if we can get away without much diplo hit.
I am already too exhausted.

I upload the save and quit.
 

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OK, it IS a decision maker moment!!!
Do I save and stop? Anyways, I am lacking too much sleep these fours days. I have high tolerance, but not inhumane.

Stopping time. Get your rest. We need to think out our options for trades, and can resume tomorrow.

I'm out!
 
Oh btw, I really wonder what PD (Plastic Ducks) are up to? They have like 200 score over us at 250 BC. They went war, uh?

Anyways,

Reference number: 11271
Game: C-IV SGOTM 14
Your team: Kakumeika
Your name: Tachywaxon
Date submitted: 2011-10-27
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 175BC
Player race: America
Firaxis score: 532
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 01:45:13
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 18:47:48
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Kakumeika\'s SGOTM14 - Beginning of T108.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: Kakumeika_SG014_BC0175_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Right click the Renamed File link above to copy it.
You can then paste it into your team post as the download link for the next player.
News Update: The Wizard of Oz is still alive


Here is your Session Turn Log from 250 BC to 175 BC:

Turn 105, 250 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 105, 250 BC: Dorothy adopts Caste System!
Turn 105, 250 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 105, 250 BC: Wicked Witch of the South adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 106, 225 BC: New York has been founded.
Turn 106, 225 BC: Washington will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 106, 225 BC: GP Farm will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 106, 225 BC: Silver City will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 106, 225 BC: Isengard will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 106, 225 BC: Deal Canceled: Iron to Wicked Witch of the East
Turn 106, 225 BC: You have trained a Chariot in Isengard. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 106, 225 BC: Wicked Witch of the South has founded Nongoma in a distant land.
Turn 106, 225 BC: Wicked Witch of the West has founded Texcoco in a distant land.
Turn 106, 225 BC: Wicked Witch of the North has founded Ning-hsia in a distant land.

Turn 107, 200 BC: Washington has grown to size 7.
Turn 107, 200 BC: GP Farm has grown to size 8.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Silver City has grown to size 3.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Isengard has grown to size 4.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Good Witch of the South/Wicked Witch of the South is the worst enemy of Wicked Witch of the East/Good Witch of the East.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Culture Bridge will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Good Witch of the North has founded Warwick in a distant land.
Turn 107, 200 BC: Wicked Witch of the East has founded Jelling in a distant land.

Turn 108, 175 BC: Isengard has grown to size 5.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Culture Bridge has grown to size 3.
Turn 108, 175 BC: The borders of New York are about to expand.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Good Witch of the South will trade Calendar, Construction
Turn 108, 175 BC: Wicked Witch of the South will trade Calendar, Construction
Turn 108, 175 BC: Wicked Witch of the West will trade Construction
Turn 108, 175 BC: Good Witch of the West will trade Construction
Turn 108, 175 BC: Wicked Witch of the North will trade Construction
Turn 108, 175 BC: Good Witch of the North will trade Construction

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility

2 frigging hours for 2.5 turns. Okay something is wrong.

Good night.
 
Things look good Tachy :)

Re: silver city
I would work the silver mine (at least until currency is researched)
If you chop the forest after the road on the silver mine then the galley still finishes the same time I believe before we revolt back.

weird I thought there was a forest in silver city's big fat cross. I thought it was there in the real game but not the test game... doesn't matter chop the forest 2N2W.

Re: taoist missionary.
Depends somewhat on where it is founded...

If founded in Marble (a 1 pop city) or GPFarm, I think we have to use him to spread to stone city or another city that could build missionaries quickly (i.e. 2 pop whip them out)
However, I think we should save him until we switch back to slavery because we want to maximize our chances of getting a lucky auto spread of the religion. And I don't think we would have time to build a monastery before we plan to switch to slavery and organized religion anyways.

If it is founded in stone city (or a city we would want to whip for missionaries and could whip them)
Then I think we spread taoism to Trojan Horse. (but wait until the turn before our spy mission is planned (when we have 50% stationary bonus, since again we could get some lucky autospread)

The confu missionaries I think will come too late to change the possible location of taoism.

Re: trades
I tried the aesthetics for calendar trade in the test game. I gave the southern test game witches calendar and traded aesthetics for it.
The southern test game witches are worst enemies with the north and the west
strangely the northern witches didn't pick up any worst enemies diplo penalties and the west picked up 3 or 4 (depending on what turn I traded it on)
A risk of a diplo penalty of 3 or 4 isn't worth it.

I think the calendar trade is not worth the risk given that
1) the northern witches will get it in 2 turns and we can safely trade it from them (presumably unless the wonder building gets in the way)
2) If the wonder building gets in the way we can steal it from the northern witches eventually

I also think a construction trade can wait. The northern witches will trade construction and monotheism for code of laws. We would only want to do that until we bulb philosophy though on the off chance they have a great scientist coming.

Oh and once the eastern witches tech currency, you might be able to renegotiate the resource trades for a few gold. (they don't like us much so probably not likely...)

Oh and if the western witches bulb currency, you should be able to get some gold out of them with resource trades. Oh and maybe beg from them as well, that could really speed up currency :)

stretching for currency
If you are looking for things to sacrifice, I think cultural bridge can turn off its grass mine next turn and still grow. So work the mine this turn, but next turn run a scientist or merchant there.
When we switch back to slavery cultural bridge will likely whip the lighthouse, so no big loss if we lose a few hammers here.

gems city
I would rather start a galley then another spy in gems city

Oh btw, I really wonder what PD (Plastic Ducks) are up to? They have like 200 score over us at 250 BC. They went war, uh?

They didn't go to war if you look at their power graph. I think they may have gone for the oracle and then they expanded rapidly perhaps after getting code of laws with the oracle and they built the great lighthouse I'm sure. And they didn't give any cities away.
 
Ah yes. Another fact I couldn't know is I will lose one hammer in GPFarm for the spy in five turns, way earlier than GLib popping out. For next turn-set, the spy is going to be urgent matter.

I think we are just going to let this hammer expire. Don't worry about it. We are not building a spy in GPFarm anytime soon.
 
Good progress Tachy. I like all of bcool's thoughts (some of those are echoing thoughts of others, of course!).

I suspect The Great Hunter axeman should head SW. We need a unit out scouting for the hypothetical stacks from the Southern witches, and we can't do that from the eastern spoke. I think our chariot will head for Mansa, and we want the axeman to find Shaka. Soon our galley and a spy will get scouting the east in tandem with another chariot.
 
I am hesitant to go along with worker stealing from Asoka. I am afraid that is like shaking a beehive. I would rather not put them into a unit building frenzy. We will have to pay for that down the road. If Mansa attacks the East Witches, they will already be in war mode and I would then recommend it if a good opportunity presents itself.
 
I think we should build a lighthouse. Building research is rarely best, unless saving overflow. A galley would be nice, but surely somewhere else has better hammers. Gems City or Stone City must be suitable for a galley some time soon. It's not like we have spare spies or chariots to put on galleys for scouts, yet.

For its future, I see it working pigs and fish regardless. It could be
  • at size 8 without a lighthouse working Gfarm and four merchants
  • at size 10 with a lighthouse working two lakes and five merchants
or either of those scenarios plus two Gfarms and a merchant, or four Gfarms and two merchants. Once calendar and silver comes in, being happy at about size 15 is quite achievable - health similarly.

The lighthouse scenarios look better to me (because we get to work coasts for 2:food:2:commerce: while growing to the desired size, and will be working the lighthouse-enhanced lake tiles at our desired size, and have an extra merchant when running at the desired size), but we have to build the lighthouse and that slows down getting to max size, because we'll have to whip or work the Pmine.

Assuming we work a scientist for the next six turns to Currency building a lighthouse, and then go max hammers to finish the lighthouse, and then max growth on coasts to get to size 10, we can get the lighthouse T118 and to size 10 T123. We could then get to size 13 working two Gfarms and an extra merchant by T128 or so.

If we just build a Gfarm and grow to size 8, we can do that by T119. Size 11 working two more Gfarms then takes until T128. In these scenarios we are running a merchant or two while still growing, rather than work unimproved grassland, or non-lighthouse coasts.

These timings make building a lighthouse look better than not building a lighthouse.

Building a galley before a possible lighthouse that look a bit sick.
 
I think we should build a lighthouse. Building research is rarely best, unless saving overflow. A galley would be nice, but surely somewhere else has better hammers. Gems City or Stone City must be suitable for a galley some time soon. It's not like we have spare spies or chariots to put on galleys for scouts, yet.

For its future, I see it working pigs and fish regardless. It could be
at size 8 without a lighthouse working Gfarm and four merchants
at size 10 with a lighthouse working two lakes and five merchants
or either of those scenarios plus two Gfarms and a merchant, or four Gfarms and two merchants. Once calendar and silver comes in, being happy at about size 15 is quite achievable - health similarly.

The lighthouse scenarios look better to me (because we get to work coasts for 22 while growing to the desired size, and will be working the lighthouse-enhanced lake tiles at our desired size, and have an extra merchant when running at the desired size), but we have to build the lighthouse and that slows down getting to max size, because we'll have to whip or work the Pmine.

Assuming we work a scientist for the next six turns to Currency building a lighthouse, and then go max hammers to finish the lighthouse, and then max growth on coasts to get to size 10, we can get the lighthouse T118 and to size 10 T123. We could then get to size 13 working two Gfarms and an extra merchant by T128 or so.

If we just build a Gfarm and grow to size 8, we can do that by T119. Size 11 working two more Gfarms then takes until T128. In these scenarios we are running a merchant or two while still growing, rather than work unimproved grassland, or non-lighthouse coasts.

These timings make building a lighthouse look better than not building a lighthouse.

Building a galley makes both look a bit sick.

I wasn't suggesting that silver city never build a lighthouse. I was only suggesting that it build the galley first, but that was when I thought it had 2 forests.

The galley does build nicely to pick up the spy that stone city will finish after the settler. However we could whip a galley out of cultural bridge and that would finish about the right time too.
the question is which city do you want to sacrifice to build the galley basically.
this assumes we want to send out units to look for worker stealing opportunities in the galley gems city is building. (or the one I hope it will build instead of another spy)
And this assumes that more galleys earlier is better since any war with the eastern witches will likely greatly benefit from lots of galleys.

I think getting a spy to eastern witches in a timely fashion is worth sacrificing one of those 2 cities' development.

re: worker stealing
I'm only suggesting that we prepare for worker stealing if the opportunity presents itself. And any worker stealing would have to be carefully considered as shulec suggested.
 
I agree with mabraham the The Great Hunter axeman should go west-southwest

Few time...fast comment.

Why west-then southwest for the axeman. And mabraham, you suspected well(if I did interpreted well). I intented to go SW next turn and use the river arm (or delta) to protect me. A good sight towards coast is nice too. Then, I was intended to make a U-turn towards Southwest.

Oh, and looks like you don't like how I dubbed mister axeman. :lol::lol: That is what he deserves to hunt poor barbarian hobos.

As I concluded, all people won't accept the risk to trade for calendar.
bcool, you sure there is a diplo hit. Unless, I did not deduced from what people said earlier on, worst foe diplo hits come from "fair trades".
If the trade is equivalent in value, then no such diplo hit.

Construction can wait. By the look of it, continuing playing tonight or when I return home (yeah, I guess not like usual) seems reasonable.

See you later.
 
Re: trades
A risk of a diplo penalty of 3 or 4 isn't worth it.

I think the calendar trade is not worth the risk given that
1) the northern witches will get it in 2 turns and we can safely trade it from them (presumably unless the wonder building gets in the way)
2) If the wonder building gets in the way we can steal it from the northern witches eventually

I also think a construction trade can wait. The northern witches will trade construction and monotheism for code of laws. We would only want to do that until we bulb philosophy though on the off chance they have a great scientist coming.

I agree with the trade recommendations.
 
Unless, I did not deduced from what people said earlier on, worst foe diplo hits come from "fair trades".

If the trade is equivalent in value, then no such diplo hit.
See you later.

Unfortunately, I believe that you can get diplo hits from equivalent trades. Early in the game, you can make inequivalent trades, especially before currency and not get diplo hits. The further you progress into the game, you have an increased risk of getting a diplo hit from an equivalent trade, and later in the game, you also get a higher diplo hit.
 
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