All Leaders Challenge Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh

Round 11: 1820 AD to 1895 AD (65 turns), Part 1

After a turn of research, Shaka was much more agreeable about trading steam power.



And, doing more tech brokering, I got some cool stuff from Cyrus for it.



I figured that I'd better get what I could from Cyrus. He was destined to become Shaka's worst enemy, I figured, and if I attacked him at the same time he wouldn't be too fond of me either.

So with my eye on catching up on techs, I had a look at the board and chose to research a tech no one else I had, one which I figured the AI would value and trade a lot of goodies for:



And then I didn't trade it to anybody!

Hannibal already had it. Cyrus was researching it and would only trade divine right for it. Shaka needed corporation before I could trade it to him, and I would have to gift that first tech to Shaka. And somehow the idea of making Shaka even more powerful didn't appeal to me. So I kept AL to myself.

Shortly after this, the AP elections came up, and I was a little surprised at who the candidates were.



My and Cyrus? Yup, it seems Shaka had changed civics.



Well, it made no sense to stick with organized religion anymore, since it wasn't doing me much diplomatic good. I still needed to catch up on techs and a lot of my infrastructure was now built, or my cities were quite capable of building it without OR's production boost.



So I switched to free religion too.

And then, after a surviving through a tough game, my luck finally started to turn around. I got exactly the great person I was looking for out of Nidaros.



Sweet! By this point New York was far and away my best commerce city, so I sent him there to found Mining Inc. I planned to build Wall Street in New York (appropriate, don't you think?) soon.

Based upon what others have shared about the subtleties of the game, Shaka was up to something.



Ah yes, the dreaded WHEOOHRN--a sign that the civ in question is preparing for war. Of course, I was pretty sure that Shaka was preparing to attack Cyrus, so I wasn't too worried. By the way, Shaka had dropped to "pleased" with me and I also had WFYABTA with him, so it was looking like I'd have to research railroad on my own.

My next tech was also reasearched with an eye towards trading it...



Which I promptly proceeded to do.



Then Shaka finally did what we all thought and knew he would do. He declared war on Cyrus.



Since I wanted my continent all to myself, I did the same.



There were several advantages to this. One big one was that it pushed my rating with Shaka back to "friendly", so he was willing to trade techs again.



I then managed to capture the two Persian cities on my continent, securing it entire for myself.





Shaka, meanwhile, was tearing up Persian cities on the other continent. Would Cyrus become Shaka's vassal before I had a chance to take any more advantage of the situation?

To be continued...

Nice nice nice



1000th post

With all these people voting for you, maybe it woud have been worth staying in organized religion and trying to sneak in an AP diplo victory? That might have been the fastest way to win, though by far the sneakiest way.

uppi said:

With all these people voting for you, maybe it woud have been worth staying in organized religion and trying to sneak in an AP diplo victory? That might have been the fastest way to win, though by far the sneakiest way.

Click to expand...

It definitely would have worked. But it seems like a cop out to me.

Wait, what's up with the screenshot where it shows the GE and says "build farm: 2782478 turns" or whatever?

gallego said:

Wait, what's up with the screenshot where it shows the GE and says "build farm: 2782478 turns" or whatever?

Click to expand...

Maybe Sisiutil is running a mod that counts the total number of turns from turn 1 of the first ALC game?

well, if you're the AP resident you'd get a chance for the "stop the fighting among the brothers of the faith" resolution if it looks like cyrus is getting crushed. you can only stop wars vs. full members, but cyrus counts even in FR because he controls the AP city. and if shaka captures it without razing it, well, same deal . if it gets razed, well, my escape plan goes out the window.

yup, that's me, always trying to an escape plan if war turns ugly! permawuss.

Round 11: 1820 AD to 1895 AD (65 turns), Part 2

Well, of course I didn't just fight wars and trade techs. I did manage to sneak a settler build in amongst all the infrastructure and units.



It was the only new city I managed to found, but it close the last gap on my shoreline. I can settle the remaining cities at my leisure. I don't really need them, but a few more may be helpful, especially considering some other resources like oil and coal have shown up near some of my proposed sites. I really should get on with it early in the next round, though, otherwise the cities won't be mature enough to contribute to the end game.
My next researched technology was military in nature, and another one which most of the AI civs already possessed.



Just the fact that I was researching techs in the AI's possession, though, was something of a good sign to me. I was finally gaining on them in this regard. As another sign of this, I was becoming reluctant to trade techs--especially military ones--to the AI, especially Shaka. I never did trade Assembly Line to him for anything. I then researched medicine; I was hoping first to be able to trade it for some techs, since it's relatively harmless, and I was also running merchant specialists all over the place to both boost my research rate and in the hopes of earning a great merchant to found Sid's Sushi. It's pretty much universally agreed that Sid's and Mining Inc. are the two most powerful corporations, isn't it?

By this point, thanks to the conquest of the continent, biology, and aiming for growth, I became the largest civ on earth:



A few random events came my way as well--very nice ones.



This was wonderful; since I had obtained all my great generals long before obtaining military science, I had not founded any military academies. It was great to get one in one of my military cities. By the way, I have five "military cities" in this game--cities with a significant benefit for producing military units. Zimhir has the Heroic Epic and two military instructors; Ur also has two MIs and this military academy; Philadelphia has West Point; and Uruk and New York each have a military instructor. The latter two cities have other fish to fry, but Zimhir, Ur, and Philadelphia are mostly building units. They will be targets for Mining Inc. expansion.

When Medicine was done, I was indeed able to trade it to my advantage.



As you can see, Hannibal was becoming my new favourite tech-trading buddy. And I was closing in on his tech lead.

And I got my great merchant! I got my great merchant! Out of Eridu. More good luck! I think I deserve it after such a long time behind the eight-ball. I sent him to New York immediately.




Yeah! Mining and Sushi, my favourite corporation combination--hammers, food, and culture. If I get a great scientist next it may be tempting to found one of the research boosting corporations. The downside, however, is that three or more corporations get very expensive unless you start spreading them around to the other civs, thereby sharing the benefits. Nevertheless, as I said, NaZdReG should be pleased; I believe these are also your two favourite corporations too.

My next technology was a military one, another that I didn't trade to anybody.



The one after that was another catch-up tech that Hannibal already had.



And wouldn't you know it? I was just about to capture that Persian city north of Istakhr, called Jinjan, when peace broke out.



Yep, Cyrus buckled, as anticipated. Understandable, really; he only had three of his core cities on the other continent remaining, plus a bunch of marginal cities on a few islands. Serves me right for not building enough galleons or transports to effect any sort of amphibious assault on Cyrus' other cities. Still, I think I did well to take the two cities I did and thereby gain ownership of my continent. With the help of Sid Sushi culture in Istakhr, a goal of the next round, I should be able to steal the crab tile from Jinjan.

Fortunately, as some of you thought, the mutual military struggle diplomatic points with Shaka returned me to "friendly" status with him.



KMad and others have pointed out that the DP won't prevent him from attacking, but friendly status will. I just have to maintain that diplomatic status with him, and the DP will help. If I have to run police state I will, but Shaka isn't running it yet, even though he does have fascism... and so do I, now.



What the heck. I don't really need it, especially since the Pyramids would allow me to run polices state but it can't hurt. Mt. Rushmore may come in handy if hostilities do break out, and if I get flight somehow, I can build paratroopers.

Shaka's power rating is still frightening:



So I'm very thankful for all the diplomatic work I've done with Shaka.

Another pleasant random event:




My favourite of these, though, is the federal reserve event, the one that reduces inflation. That usually allows me to bump up the research slider by at least one notch. No sign of it in this game, though.

Another day, another military tech:



I can now see what Hannibal is researching, and I finished industrialism only a few turns after he did. I'm gaining on him! On a side note, Hannibal's maintenance of his tech lead despite losing many of his cities and becoming a vassal is impressive. I may have to add Hannibal to my list of impressive (and threatening) tech fiends, like Huayna, Gandhi, Ragnar, and Mansa.

My next great person came out of Nidaros and was a great merchant.



Okay, first off, I'm kicking myself. I somehow forgot to build the national epic!!! I finally noticed and built it in Nidaros during this round. I share the shame of this bone-headed blunder with the rest of you, however, especially those who check the saves, so there. How the heck did we miss that? The war with Washington, I think--very distracting.

Self-recrimination aside, what to do with the GM? I've sent him to New York. He'll research part of flight, which is nice, but not needed for the space race (which still makes me shake my head at some of the strange logic of the Civ IV tech tree). I could settle him in the Wall Street city (I finished it towards the end of the round), or I could save him for my second golden age. Thoughts? Recommendations?

I was very proud of my next tech target, the last I achieved in the round, because... I finally beat one of the AIs to a tech!



Ha! Take that, Hannibal! I've started building the Three Gorges Dam in Seattle, my ironworks city. I've already spread Mining Inc. to it; I will next spread Sid's Sushi there, which will allow me to convert many if not all of the city's remaining farms to workshops. The -2 health from power in all cities may necessitate a civics change to environmentalism unless I can get to refrigeration (for supermarkets) and ecology (for recycling centres) fast enough.

By the way, I did try to build another wonder during the round. Seattle came within two turns--two frickin' turns!!--of completing the Pentagon. Shaka beat me to it. Oh well, I would have wanted it if I was pursuing a domination or conquest win. As it is, I got a pile of gold instead, which I then used to upgrade a number of highly promoted units--especially the ones with protective promotions--to modern units.

And that was the round! I'd say I'm well-positioned for a space race win what with the two corporations I have. So long as I can maintain "friend and ally" status with Shaka, I'd say I have a lock on it.

A state of the world post will follow.

The State of the World, 1895 AD

A look at the map to start off:





Amazing how many cities Shaka owns, isn't it? I remember I was sure that Hannibal was going to administer a spanking to him thanks to more modern units, but Shaka's swarms won the day.

Domestic advisor:



A nice mix of builds, I think, and it's good to have tanks on Shaka. I'm alternating a civilian build with a tank build in most cities, and I'll start throwing a few artillery, battleships, and marines into the mix. Health has become a bigger inhibitor to city growth than happiness, as it usually does in the late game.

Financial advisor:



I probably won't be able to maintain the slider at 70% research for long, not once I start spreading Sid's Sushi to some of my cities.

Civics:



As I mentioned in the previous post, a switch to environmentalism is tempting. The big benefit of it, I find, is not having to devote so many hammers in the late game to health-boosting buildings. The obvious downside, especially in this game, is the increased corporate maintenance fees.

Foreign relations:





Hannibal asked me to cancel my deals with Sitting Bull a few turns back, so the NA leader is not overly happy with me. Like I care. Isn't this guy always an also-ran by the mid-game? It's a bit of a mystery to me; Sitting Bull starts off with a lot of early game advantages, but I don't think he's programmed to leverage them properly.

Active deals:



Yeah, going to war with the Shaka block and having all of these canceled would hurt. Yet another reason to keep Shaka friendly.

Resources:



I haven't started trading with Cyrus again yet. For only four gold per turn I don't really need to, though the trade routes might be helpful. Now that Cyrus is Shaka's vassal, I shouldn't get "traded with our worst enemy" demerits, should I?

Trade route income and civics:



Yay! Shaka finally switched away from mercantilism! Unfortunately he's chosen a civic that will prevent me from spreading my corporations to him. Hannibal is fair game, as are Cyrus and Sitting Bull once I get OB agreements back in place with them.

What are the implications for the AP now that everyone but Sitting Bull is running free religion? Is it a non-factor now, or do I still have to worry about it?

And finally, I can look at the tech board in this game without feeling despair:




I am, at long last, the tech leader. It's not a huge lead, but it's just going to open up wider in the next round. I'm really happy to have electricity on Shaka, because that means it will take him a long time before he has tanks, marines, and battleships--so I want to produce several of those units in the meantime. My only concern is that Shaka will come a-knocking and demanding one of my military techs. But if it keeps us at "friendly", it doesn't really matter what type of units he can build, does it?

Victory conditions:



The main thing to be gleaned from this is that both Shaka and I are a long way off from a domination win. It also appears that thanks to his Persian conquests, Shaka has displaced me as the largest civ in the world. Sid's Sushi may mean that won't last.

Demographics:



Again, I may be able to catch up to Shaka in several regards, thanks to the two corporations. I don't think I have a snowball's chance in hell of ever matching him power-wise, not unless I run my economy into the ground, and what's the point? I think I'll focus on producing a number of modern units that can fend off an amphibious invasion and leave it at that.

Espionage:



I'm focusing on Shaka, because, well, what's the point of having e-points on anyone else? I'd especially like to get to the point where I can see what he's researching and how fast. If I get a comfortable tech lead in the next round, I may turn up the espionage slider to full-blast for a few turns to gain tech visibility on everybody. Then again, I may not need it; earlier in the game it would have been extremely useful, but now? Icing on the cake, really. Maybe I should just focus on researching my merry way through the space techs as fast as possible. The earlier I get into space, the less I have to worry about Shaka turning on me.

Nice job

I really really hope you will not get the random event that I just got one hour ago: I found myself declaring war on Egypt because of a stupid infiltrated spy in the egyptian governement, as if I wanted something more to hurt me

i'm only skimming atm, i'll come back and type another 4 posts later like i annoyingly do.

I haven't started trading with Cyrus again yet. For only four gold per turn I don't really need to, though the trade routes might be helpful. Now that Cyrus is Shaka's vassal, I shouldn't get "traded with our worst enemy" demerits, should I?

Click to expand...

Bhruic's latest patch makes it so that vassal's can't be their master's worst enemy, yes. but that's a recent change. it looks to me like he made that change on october 11th, and this thread started on october 10th, so have you updated your Bhruic's patch? he'll confirm how recent it is i'm sure.

i approve of the new improved bananas deal with shaka

Wow, you have the whole continent for yourself and Shaka still matches you in number of cities and has 3 vasals. This is going to be interesting. It would be hilarious if he beats you to space, something I am not really scared of because the tech lead will increase if you ask me. 2 coorporations in place with an abundance of food and hammers.

So space race here we come while you keep on building enough units to keep shaka at place. Get a navy out I guess.

Great round Sis .

I have a nub question. Are we 100% positive that Shaka won't attack if you are friendly with him? Seems like if you are the last potential target and he is an aggressive civ going for a domination win he would have to attack you. Again, this is just speculation on my part and I'm probably wrong, just curious. I'm still in favor of a big navy. Gives you the opportunity to blockade him if the space race is too close for comfort.

Happy space racings and nice win bud .

-w

I still think that Shaka will try a stunt on you..... Like said before, you're the only thing between him and victory and BtS AI really try to win sometimes ( BTW did you noticed, during Cyrus-Shaka war, if he displayed " we rather prefer to win the game, thanks you" overlay when overing the "make Peace with Cyrus" ? That would be a sure sign that he's determined to win by Dom/Conquest ). Your diplo work is impressive, but all can derail with a bad struck of luck ( a diplo - event ) or with a stupid request by Shaka that you're unwilling to take ( I would beware of that: Shaka loves PS and I would not be suprised if he banged at your door asking for you to change for it ).

Besides that, very impressive play

Jeez Louise that's impressive. Nothing I've suggested has mattered at all, so I'm going to make a couple of other useless contributions.

Settle the GM. Food's always good, and the money ain't nothing. Forget about the National Epic. It'll pollute your GP pool and you don't need an Artist.

Conversely, save the GM and do build the NE and hope for a GA to start a GA.

Obviously, you will now come up with a third plan to make me wrong in two different ways.

Great job, S.

Well played.....Shaka did roll over Cyrus easily at the end!
You are the only one left not vassalized now!!

You know what's next...

I haven't really played BTS, but what makes Sid's Sushi so good? At first glance, General Mills seems a lot better, since culture is kind of a waste. Is it because there are are more seafood resources available than grain?

r_rolo1 said:

( I would beware of that: Shaka loves PS and I would not be suprised if he banged at your door asking for you to change for it ).

Click to expand...

At the moment he doesn't love it enough to run it instead of Universal Suffrage, although he has the neccessary tech. Anyway, researching Radio and building Cristo Redentor would take care of that.

^^I know that, but iShaka shifting to PS and ask Sman to do it as well is a distinct possibity. CR looks a good idea regarding that

Hey Sisiutil, can you spoiler tag all Civ Pics you post on your ALC after your Gligamesh game from now on?

I Don't know if I'm the only one but I find it annoying when I'm reading a post while the page is loading a pic and I can shifted to another part of the page because of the pic expanding then i have to scroll back to find the post I was originally reading.

btw I heard somewhere that Winning space race without flight is worked as intended by the creators of the game, apparently the theory of flight and rocketry are different or something like that.

What is really strange is that you can build the Apollo Program with out the electricity tech... how the hell are you suppose to ignite those engines without electricity? with a Really HUGE wick? lol.