China 1911? or Julius turning agaisnt rome?

Something cool to have in this mod would be what happened in china around 1911.

This was when many people was unhappy with all the foreigners controlling the industry and market. Mostly they blamed the emperor and the government for china being weak and letting all the foreigners control them.

This led to a revolution around 1911 where the emperor lost and the Republic of china was created.

Though this lasted only for a short time when the military took the power and made a new "president" (dictator). Allthough the military had a hard time controlling china and lokal warlords made their own states and waged war on eachother.

The military tried to hold on to the states, while the old government, and mainly the new kommunist party tried to get the power led to a huge civil war.



It would be nice if something like this would happen. Now it only seems as the rebels are doing it for the reason that most people want.

For example if one city is unhappy because it wants christianity, while two other cities are unhappy because they want hinduism. Then those 3 cities may rebel as hindus and try to take the power. There should instead be 2 rebels and maybe they wage war on eachother to?

And then theres never those coups where rebels just do it for the sake of a powerhungry leader. Maybe a great warlord could turn on its own people if it have a huge army and march against "Rome"?

I think both ideas are great, especially the second one. Beware of too-elite units and great warlords! I can imagine the terrible chill you would get to see your deathstack of tanks turn back from a recent conquest flying a new flag.

One comment I'll make on the first idea is that if the Hindu cities have a really-low rev index - especially if Hinduism is already the state faith - they might generate a bit of a counter-revolution under loyalist colours.

Jdog, if you decide to do anything with that idea, I have a thought for you: The game doesn't choke on having more than one copy of the same civ, so loyalist counter-rebellions could be handled that way, possibly identifying the counter-rebels by flipping the WhiteFlag property. They could use the same leader generation as the leader-changing revolutions - or, instead of just using a copy if the civ only had one leader, maybe randomly picking a militaristic one from another civ. Perhaps biasing toward the same artstyle, or even using RebelTypes.py?

Then they check each turn to see if the rebels still exist. If they don't, and all cities are controlled by the state, they peacefully disband. If the counter-rebels control any cities, the state can choose to re-integrate them into the empire at no further penalty (prolly using the assimilation code), or cut them loose with a huge relations bonus and whatever diplomatic ties are possible, possibly including a permanent alliance if game-options and tech permit.

Also, something to aim for at the end of the idea's development might be if they disband or re-integrate, the leader makes a suggestion for a civic/religion change, and if you take it the cities who generated the counter-rebellion get a bit of a happiness boost similar to the unhappiness boost for denying a revolutionary demand; or if there isn't any change they really want, each of them suggests a building they want with similar results once it's built - or, if possible, it'd be even better for the building itself to come with +1 .

Whoa, that was a lot longer-winded than I'd originally intended. O.o

The idea of a general turning on his own government and leading a major coup definitely appeals to me as well. There certainly plenty of historical examples of exactly this, it's also been done in other games too (like Medieval Total War). One thing I've learned from earlier feedback though is that many players don't enjoy seeing their prized veteran units turning against them ...

The solution I've been thinking of is "splitting" the units. A copy of each of the units in question would be created, and both would be set to a health level < 40% or so. Some of the veteran troops in each unit would effectively remain loyal to the civ, some would switch. Of course it doesn't make sense to duplicate a Great General unit, so probably a new GG would be created for the rebels I think.

I've also been thinking about how to best create real civil wars between two copies of the same civ type ... the suggestion of using the white flag toggle is a good one. There really aren't any more colors. With that method the colors on the minimap for the two sides of the civil war would remain the same, which could be slightly confusing but is also somewhat logical ... during the War of the Roses, it was all still England to outsiders in a sense even if they were pulling for one side. The troop flags are really the most important thing to have differentiated, thanks for the idea! Could make playing with both England and Denmark a little confusing though

I understand many, maybe most people wouldnt want this.
Thats why you should add this to a check/uncheck box as with all other modules. But i like my games hard.

But the idea that the general is turning against you is pretty much the main idea. Maybe as the general unit gets more experience the people start to like him more. (maybe some bonuses/negative effects from civic here?)
The higher the people like him the more armies will turn against you. And perhaps the military in the newly conquered provinces have a higher chance of turning against you.

Or if you are real unlucky, when he conquer a new city he might declare it as his own right away and you chose to recognise his new civ or declare war on it.

As i said many people would find this anoying so thats why we need a check/uncheck box, it should probably be unchecked by default so you dont scare away everyone trying this mod for the first time.

jdog5000 said:

One thing I've learned from earlier feedback though is that many players don't enjoy seeing their prized veteran units turning against them ...

Click to expand...

Pff. If people dont like a hard game then why play the Revolution mod at all?

Also, it might initially be annoying, but how good/interesting can a game be if it all goes perfectly to plan? Isnt that what the random events are for, to spice things up? Isnt that what the Revolution mod is at heart - an attempt to bring the violence, suddenness and surprise of internal revolutions into the core of a fairly stable, predictable game?

I say go for it. The more randomness (up to a reasonable/realistic point) the better!

HDK

I've been thinking along the same lines as Gladdig_Kaga these last days. My original perspective was that sending an offensive army off somewhere, either to the provinces or to attack a different civ, should carry the risk that the commander of said army should either try to set himself up as a leader in the new territories after some success, or simply turn around and try to force his way to power in the original civ, much as suggested above.

However, would it be possible for the odds for this happening to be determined by the happess/rev-rating in the city from which the units in the army originates? This could open up a few interesting options, and probably some problems I'm not aware of. The risk could also be tied to the power rating of said attack force compared to the rest of your civs military.

If this is at all possible, some gameply implications could be:

* As revolutions in unit-producing cities becomes more dangerous, the player would have an incentive to unit creation across more cities. From what little I've seen, this is how the ai does this already, thus it should mostly be a human concern.
* Somewhat contradictary, unit production should mostly happend in the safe/core cities with the lowest rev rating, and not in newly conqured cities. Letting the recently-conqured take up arms in large numbers to fight your wars doesn't sound like a good idea.
* Keeping your defensive forces in proportion to your offensive ones might, in some cases, put some limitations on offensive warfare.

Tying unit loyalty to city rev rating can probably be said to be separate idea altogether, and might have been tossed out before, though I could not find it.

Seems like this would make a good random event that people could chose to add to their game or not. Now, if only jdog would get around to exposing Revolution effects to the random event system ...