i am not very good

We are getting some great discussion here and hopefully that will continue.

We should play on an begin uploading the next round of turns with the hope we can finish these turns before the weekend even though we have Thanksgiving week in the US to contend with.

If you have not mastered the upload feature yet, you may have to do this in order to proceed because the 100k limit for direct file attachments may come into play.

The next three save points are:

turn 100: 570bc
turn 110: 370bc
turn 120: 170bc

we should begin to see some radically different game events during these turns because of where we are in the game progression.

continued good luck to all players.

Jaxom - thanks for taking the time to download my game. Your comments were detailed and direct. They will help me a lot.

I think my worker stack thing is a result of having played mostly non-industrious civs. This double speed worker thing is really nice

Turns 91 to 100:

Not much to say about those 10 turns, more settlers, more workers, more libraries, some marketplaces started.

1. 750 BC ...
2. 730 BC ...
3. 710 BC ...
4. 690 BC ...
5. 670 BC ...
6. 650 BC ...
   
7. 630 BC We discover Currency. Research on Map Making is ordered. Library is rushed in Tarsus to bring in another luxury.
   
8. 610 BC ...
   
9. 590 BC Hamadan is founded to claim the horses.
   
10. 570 BC Ergili is founded to complete the claim on the west coast.
    [/list=1]
    
    
    Turns 101 to 110:
    
    1. 550 BC We discover Map Making. Research started on Construction.
       
    2. 530 BC ...
    3. 510 BC ...
    4. 490 BC ...
    5. 470 BC ...
       
    6. 450 BC The Pyramids completes in Arbela.
       
    7. 430 BC Contact made with Egypt and Rome. The first marketplace is online in Persepolis.
       
    8. 410 BC We discover Construction. Research ordered on Polytheism.
       
    9. 390 BC ...
       
    10. 370 BC Dariush Kabir founded to begin filling up the south coast.
        [/list=1]
        
        Turns 111 to 120:
        
        1. 350 BC Ghulaman founded far to the NE to claim some gems.
           
        2. 330 BC The Colossus completes in Antioch. We discover Polytheism and enter the Middle Ages. Monotheism is gained for free and research is ordered on Theology. Persepolis starts on the Great Library to trigger our golden age.
           
        3. 310 BC Zohak founded SW of Persepolis on the coast. The library in Ghulaman is rushed to bring in the gems sooner and establish cultural dominance in the area.
           
        4. 290 BC Istakhr founded south of Persepolis, completing the claim of the south coast.
           
        5. 270 BC ...
        6. 250 BC ...
           
        7. 230 BC Jinjan founded on the Egyptian continent to claim some wine. This will be my last city unless I can find some spices to grab.
           
        8. 210 BC Library rushed in Jinjan to gain cultural dominance over the wine.
           
        9. 190 BC Embassy established with Egypt and Rome.
           
        10. 170 BC Forbidden Palace completes in Gordium.
            [/list=1]
            
            Here are the save games:
            570 BC
            370 BC
            170 BC

ControlFreak, the basic idea is to have enough workers to improve tiles as fast as your population grows, and then some for special projects. The industrious trait reduce the number of workers needed but it still better (IMHO) to have workers assigned to each growing city. In my game, Persepolis was without a worker for a very long time since it rarely had more than 6 productive citizens and I had enough improved tiles for size 7.

When your workers are coming out of a high corruption town, there is no such thing as too many workers because workers can be merged back into a city. By 170 BC, my Pasargadae city on the flood plains is producing a worker every 2 turns while staying at size 6. It will do so until all my mainland cities reach size 12.

might not post till nex tweek.
see you later!

Turns 91 to 100 - 750bc to 570bc

750 BC (turn 91) – Galley finds an Island? Tarsus builds a Courthouse. Worker out of Arbela.
730 BC (turn 92) – Hooked up furs and glee resounds throughout the land.
710 BC (turn 93) – Library in Pasagardae. MM food/shields to speed settler. Tune down research to save 18 gold.
690 BC (turn 94) – Checked and Hambone has Polytheism available to trade.
670 BC (turn 95) – Library in Persepolis. Worker out of Gordium. Forest cleared near Sidon to speed Horseman next turn. MM food/shields to speed settler from Pasagardae. MM scientist in Tarsus to balance happiness.
650 BC (turn 96) – Settlers out of Pasagardae and Persepfill. Horseman out of Sidon.
630 BC (turn 97) – Salamanca has built the Oracle for us. Forest cleared near Arbela to speed courthouse. Horseman out of Susa. Burn three people to rush Courthouse in Bactra; horseman garrisons to keep order. Burn one person in Tarsus to rush Settler. Pull warrior spying on central Aztecs/Iroqs back to help garrison.
610 BC (turn 98) – Worker out of Pasagardae. Settler out of Tarsus. Courthouse in Bactra. Founded Ghulaman on west coast.
590 BC (turn 99) – Settlers out of Persepolis and Antioch. Trade babs Math + Writing + Contact with Rome for Polytheism. Trade Shaka Math for World Map and 1 gold. Trade Egypt contact with the Babs for 13 gold + a renewed World Map. Burned three citizens in Tyre to get a courthouse in 1 turn.
570 BC (turn 100) – Courthouse in Tyre. Worker out of Gordium. Forest cleared near Persepfill. Burn 1 citizen in Sardis to rush Library.

Turns 101 to 110 - 550bc to 370bc
550 BC (turn 101) – Library in Sardis. Micromanage Persepolis and Susa.
530 BC (turn 102) – Susa builds a horseman. Using my workers to hook up roads to Iroqs and Zulus.
510 BC (turn 103) – Settlers out of Persepolis and Pasagardae head for coast. Workers out of Antioch and Bactra. Micromanage shields in Sidon.
490 BC (turn 104) – Discovered Republic.
470 BC (turn 105) – Found Ishtkar, Jinjan, and Heart on the coasts plus Borazjan near dyes.
450 BC (turn 106) – Two forests harvested near Susa push out a Horseman even in Anarchy.
430 BC (turn 107) –
410 BC (turn 108) –
390 BC (turn 109) – Moved workers to hook up Iron. Recalled Warriors to get ready to upgrade to Immortals.
370 BC (turn 110) – Forests harvested at Persepfill and Gordium. Library completes in Persepfill. Now a Republic to build some cash.

Turns 111 to 120 - 330bc to 170bc
330 BC (turn 112) – Worker out of Ghulaman. Assign Scientists in Samaria. Upgrade 3 warriors to Immortals.
310 BC (turn 113) – Set luxuries to 10% and research to 0% to build some cash.
290 BC (turn 114) – Horseman out of Susa. Workers out of Tarsus and Tyre. Rush Library at Dyes for 108 gold. Road to Dyes complete, need border
270 BC (turn 115) – Forests harvested at Ergli and Arbela. Library at Driush Kabir for Dyes.
250 BC (turn 116) – Courthouse in Arbela. Immortals reach the front lines near Zulus and Iroqs.

The evil Iroquois violate our ROP and attack us without warning. Hiawatha, the idiot attacks our worker who was hooking up roads to his civ so we could trade with him and enlist his feeble aid in the destruction of the Aztec cannibals. Hiawatha attacks and kills one of our horsemen in the open with his warrior. What military genius thought that move up.

230 BC (turn 117) – Discovered Construction and Monotheism. Susa builds settler who heads east. We finally get grass in front of our cave. Trade Zulus Philosophy and Polytheism they give updated World Map, 15 gold, Military alliance vs Hiawatha. Set embassy with the Aztecs. Trade Monty ROP for alliance vs Hiawatha.
210 BC (turn 118) – Marketplace in Persepolis. Spearman out of Tyre. Barracks in Persepfill. Plus we upgrade our cave to a house.
170 BC (turn 120) – Marketplace in Pasagardae. Settler out of Arbela. Immortals capture Cattaraugus and stimulate our Golden Age.

(I'll post links to save games here when I get them uploaded later today.)

I think Jaxom may be running 1 turn ahead of me on the space race regardless what the other power data may indicate.

Finally some action somewhere

775 bc (90): NO changes

IBTN: Zulus have maps, we trbce Territory maps.

750 bc (91): Ergili builds warrior start library. Lots of settler and worker movement. MM Capital. Change Pasargbcae to Library. Change Sidon to Library.

730 bc (92): move some settlers and change to couple libraries.

710 bc (93): Antioch builds Temple starts courthouse. Found Zohak to the West, start library.

690 bc (94): Susa builds library start temple. Persopolis builds settler starts another. Missed a trbce opportunity they all have maps now. .

670 bc (95): Gordium builds spear starts library. Trbce with Iroquois for Map making.

650 bc (96): Pasargbcae builds library start worker. Tyre builds temple start galley.

630 bc (97): Not much to speak of.

610 bc (98): Arabela builds barracks starts spearman.

590 bc (99): Found Istakhr. Start library.

570 bc (100): Parsepolis completes settler start another.Learn Repulic, start Math due in 4 turns. Parsargbcae starts temple. Revolt and draw 4 turns of anarchy.

550 bc (101): Found JinJan to the far north.

530 BC (102): not much in anarchy.

510 BC (103): see above.

490 BC (104): still waiting. Roads to horses complete.

470 BC (105): zzzz

450 BC (106): Borazian is founded. We Welcome the new republic of Persia.

430 BC (107): Math in 2 with +14 gpt.

390 BC (108): Learn Math start currency, due in 5.

370 BC (109): Build a couple libraries. Persepolis builds settler starts another.

350 BC (110): Continue building more infrastructer than armies. Can trade for polytheism to boost my score for this round but decide the price is too high. Republic I want to hold onto. Don't know how to take this in to account but I think it matters just as much as what the others don't have.

330 BC (111): Pasargadae stars the pyramids. Ergili builds library start galley.

310 BC (112): The settler parade continues. Hurry courthouse in Antioch.

290 BC (113): Antioch builds courthouse starts FP. Learn currency start contstruction.

270 BC (114): Have a horsey, start marketplace. Tarsus builds temple starts market.

250 BC (115): See yellow coastline off the northern coast.

230 BC (116): Sardis builds library starts temple.

210 BC (117): Found Herat to the far north.

190 BC (118): Still no trade for Poly.

170 BC (119): Found Dakyanus. Contact Rome and Egypt they are behind as is expected. Trade contact to get Polytheism.

150 BC (120): Construction next turn. Dyes are now online. Formed 2 more embassies with Rome and Egypt. More libraries coming on soon.

Here are the saves:



570 BC
350 BC
150 BC

710 BC - I acquire map making and a complete world map from the AI civs.

650 BC - Dariush Kabir is formed, another ice city, but will provide some good revenue after a harbor.

630 BC - Ghulaman is formed.

610 BC - Zohak is formed, and starts a temple. This city will give me dyes after a border expansion.

570 BC -
(I) Republic is learned, and the revolt begins. I draw 5 turns of anarchy

550 BC- Thank you Shaka, I trade Code of Laws to the Zulu and acquire Mathematics. I move forward in tech despite anarchy.

510 BC - Istakhr is formed, to claim horses. It is next to the Iroquois city, but I doubt I will suffer a culture flip at Warlord level. This will be the last city until the revolt is over.

470 BC -
(I) Anarchy is over, and the Persian Republic is formed.

450 BC - First Contact - I have located Egypt. [dance]
Horseback riding gets me tm and $11.
Polytheism gets me wm and contact with Rome.
There is just 1 civ left to find.
I establish embassies with both civs.
Horseback riding gets me $59, wm from Rome.
These civs are so backwards that they haven't even started any wonders.

390 BC - I hurry the temple at Zohak. It pretty much leaves me out of cash, but dyes will be on-line shortly. Long term I will come ahead as I should be able to keep luxuries lower. Furs are connected to the road net.

230 BC - Well, I guess it happens even at warlord - the AI beats me my next city site by 2 turns.


Summary - I can see missing the Space Race target at first has put me behind as there are some libraries already built by some players much earlier then mine. I never would have done the 40 turn poly play if I realized Space Race. Jaxom has a significant tech lead.


I need only 5 more turns to hit the middle ages.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA1-LKENDTER-570BC.zip

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA1-LKENDTER-370BC.zip

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/HA1-LKENDTER-170BC.zip

Hotrod,

You selectively skipped 410bc and that has thrown you one turn off cycle to match everyone else. [punch]

I'll try to compensate appropriately in the data summaries.

Your date count adjust ment should put you at 270bc for turn 110 and 170bc for turn 120.

Unless I play at lightning speed at lunch today Round 12 probably won't submit until Tuesday. I'll be out of town til then.

Round 10:
(90 775bc Tarsus changed to pyramids. Parsar changed to spear. Sardis to worker. Sidon to warrior.)
91 750 Phil done, repub ord. Susa settler, ord barracks. Sidon warrior, ord worker. Tyre warrior, ord worker. 70/10 reb in 18 with scientist in arbela. AI all have writing. Need phil, code, map and lit.
92 730 Arbela blt lib ord court. Antioch blt worker ord same. Lux 70/10 +0 gpt for pers happiness.
93 710 Persep blt settler ord same.
94 690 Samaria founded N of Susa.
95 670 Susa blt spear, order settler. Iro discover mapmaking. Trade it to all others for their WM and TM. (Gift)
96 650 Antioch blt worker ord same. Tyre blt worker ord spear. Discover Rome. Trade Literature and TM for WM and contact with egypt. Trade Egypt TM for WM and 12g. Perse blt settler ord same. Sardis blt worker ord same.
97 630 normal moves.
98 610 Iro threaten us for roman contact. No way.Hamadan founded SE of iron. order worker.
99 590 Parsar blt galley, ord Susa blt settler, ord spear. Settler sent to delta NE of Susa. Galley sent to Eastern cove for transport.
100 570 Antioch blt worker, ord spear. Whip lib in bactra. Science set to 90 -7gpt repub in 7.

Round 11
Turns 101-110:
101 550 Persep blt settler, ord settler. Bactra blt lib, ord worker. Sidon blt worker ord spear.
102 530 Whip Arbela court with 3 civs. Hire scientist. Sci 90/0 -9gpt reb in 3. Gordium changed to barracks. Babs discovered phil. aztecs discover code of laws. Zulus have math, we need. Give them code, phil, TM and 26g. Give code to babs for WM and TM. Ergili founded on delta N or Susa. Goody hut spotted on Rome continent.
103 510 Gordium blt court ord settler.
104 490 Parsar blt spear, ord spear. Susa blt spear ord settler.
105 470 normal moves. Sci to 50 repub next turn. Trade TM to Rome for 8g.
106 450 Republic done, ord currency for banks. Revolt at advisor request. 3 turn anarchy. Gordium revolts from the whipping. Scroll ahead to fix Arbela and Bactra from their whips. Darius Kabir founded in desert. Ord court but no sheilds available.
107 430 Gordium restored. Eygpt start Great Lib. Persep hires entertainer for anarchy.
108 410 Gualaman founded in flood plain n of incense. Ord lib. Literature to zulu for 26g and WM. Everyone else needs it still.
109 390 Repub selected. 40/10 currency in 9 still. entertainer in gordium and scientist in bactra from whipping.
110 370 Perse blt settler, ord settler. Tyre blt spear ord Colossus. This city will have lots of commerce tiles with the river and coast. Hope we can beat Aztecs who have been working on this for a while. Planning on war with Aztecs for their gems. Maybe twenty turns from now. If we take gem city, they may abandon colosus. Otherwise, take them out altogether. They're so backwards. MM Arbela to sheild to get settler out fast and reduce unhappy civs. MM Susa to use gold mine without wasting food on growth turn. MM Bactra to use newly irrigated wheat. This will have +4 food per turn. Pyramids due in 52. Granary would take 29 here so just keep making settlers and wait. Hopefully I get GP. No one else is building it.
Setup to Transport 2 settlers to other side of cove in 3 turns with galley. That should be our outskirts towards zulu. He's now cautious and we better fortify these cities with a lot of troops. We should get incense and dyes online in the next couple turns which should allow reasearch back to at least 50%/0lux%.

Sorry about round 12. I'll do what I can.
HA1_ControlFreak_BC570.SAV and HA1_ControlFreak_BC370.SAV zipped

I had a 170BC autosave. It was at the start of the turns so I replayed the best I could and I think my overall outcome for turn 120 is the same.

Here is the new 170BC save:

The correct save 170BC

In my shadow game I fell into the same trap that others did, not watching the object of the game, Space Race. By 170BC I had been in Monarchy for a while, researched Feudalism, met 7 civs, won my first war, hooked 5 luxuries and had to back track to research Republic now. Moved my palace, got Pyramids, and about 8 turns from Sun Tzu (it's that war mongering in me, 15 Immortals,18 warrior MP, 6 spears, 14 workers), working on the Great Library to prevent others, working on the Great Lighthouse to prevent others, working on Hanging Gardens to aid happiness. A number of Libraries and marketplaces and about 20 cities. I'm in Golden Age so research is only 4 turns but I will have to wait to switch to Republic now and any early gains will be lost on the govern'mental' two step. Dooh!

With QSC-c1 - Cracker's 1st open Quick Start coming up I can't keep two of these type of games going.

My interest in this game really died when I realized way to late about the space race objective - I can never make up the 40 turn play for poly.

My current turns submitted are my last.

I've seen a lot of comments here about getting all off track by not knowing the intended victory condition was space race. My question is, what difference does it make? It's only the start of Middle Ages! Specifically, how would it have impacted your ancient era choices?

Culture win and diplo benefit greatly by early focus, as far as early culture and avoiding ticking off people, respectively. But through Chivarly or throughout Middle Ages, I don't see any real difference betwen all the other victory conditions. For a space race on difficulty this low it's not like you're going to be trailing in tech - if you're behind there you can easily beat the tech out of your neighbors

Unlike culture, where early temples are crucial, the date at which you build a library or university doesn't matter, once its built you get the same visit whether old or new. The middle ages path is so similar for most victory paths - aim for a well timed GA, snag the best wonders, build up infrastructure, five banks and 1000 in capital, and solve any global inequities with Cavalry.

This isn't a critique, I'm genuinely wondering how finding out late about a space race makes any difference here?

Charis

Don't worry Lee, my intent is with you and although I have played up to about 600AD already, I will advocate to stop the detailed tracking of this game after the 170bc data gets posted.

The main intent of this game was to provide handyandy some detailed support for basic gameplay skill in the openning sequences. Since he has basically stopped playing we have enough example information here for him to spend several weeks just playing with the save files and trying to get his basic skills on par with lifesupport.

Warlord games pose little challenge for most players who have read threads like this or the basic strategy articles and it is really frustrating to be in a game that is so severely handicapped by the combination of hardcoded trading faux pas plus the cost factor that renders all the AI players incapable of palying or trading anywhere near the human levels.

I think this has been a great example game for us to put on the record for other players and I hope people will continue to refer to it as an example. I also thank you and everyone else for participating on such a dilligent and professional level.

Charis,

I think the comments you see are just reflecting the fact that this game is right at the beginning of the Medieval age but the outcome is already determined.

At this point, Jaxom will launch the spaceship in 1 turn before I would be able to Launch the ship unless our duration periods for anarchy transitioning from Republic to Democracy randomly draw as different numbers.

Lee's decision to do a 40 turn magical mystery tour into cash is virtually unrecoverable in space ship time because the Warlord AI's are too stupid and too slow to help with any portion of the scientific research.

Basically on this game level, everything is just a horserace to see who can get up the required portions of the tech tree at 4 turns per tech and the minimum anarchy spin to get into democracy.

The targeted early victory condition is important in that different branches in strategy would definately show as radically different approaches. Lee's 40 play is great example of a choice that does not support the quick victory objective at this warlord level.

The theory is that the research differential will be hard to make up (those that concentrated on early research versus those that built up cash instead.) Since this is warlord, you can't rely on any of the AIs to research for you, so any turns where you were not doing research are relatively hard to catch up on. HOWEVER, this assumes that you are approaching the 4-turn limit for tech. If that's not true, an advantage in territory/population will more than compensate for any early research sub-optimal moves.

Lee, I don't recall this being a competition! You might as well stick it out and see what you can learn. You are already in a pretty good position relative to most of the other players anyway, despite the tech mix-up, so you might as well keep going. I have a feeling you will be able to catch up most of the way regardless due to a strong economy. You might not be able to catch all the way up to Jaxom or Cracker but you should still make a strong showing.

Originally posted by Charis


This isn't a critique, I'm genuinely wondering how finding out late about a space race makes any difference here?

Charis

Click to expand...

In a warlord game you don't have the same challenges going for early republic (as we may be used to) and is the better government for quick research. Once you get your research up to 4 turns a tech the other civs will never really aid your cause at warlord level later in the game, even if your gifting to them along the way. (well they might a bit but I'd rather keep it simple and beat them out of contention. )

I think that really if you want a quick space ship launch (on warlord) you would just research right to literature so you can get some libraries on line and then fill in the gaps to get republic. May not be right but that's what I would have done rather than go for monarchy which is a great ancient warmonger government but not really required when the AI has it hands tied behind it's back. I doubt either of us are used to playing this level

@Zed-F

Well there is another factor hear - BOREDOM.
There is a reason why I started a deity game -
even emperor has lost some of the excitement.