QSC-C2r - Hannabaline & the 300 Spartans - Regent

Cracker:

Are you counting reloads in the same way that you do in GOTM? It would seem to me that we are on our honor not to reload to get a game advantage, but we should be able to reload to compare our games with the other players. I have downloaded games from various players and would like to be able to reload my earlier saves to compare them with the downloaded games. I would like your blessing that this is okay in this game.

PattonTwo apologizes for the delay in posting his turns.

Turns 1 - 30.

Since I’m expecting (based on world map) to build more cities either south or west, I decide to move my worker south and east to the grassland with shield square before settling. I’m intending to move my settler south of the river before founding my city.

4000bc. Moving the worker pays off BIG TIME as I find the Cow resource. That cements it and I move my settler 1 square due south.
3950bc. I found Carthage and start on a warrior. I start the worker on a road on the grassland square. The next move will be to the Cow.
3900bc. I start on Bronze Working with max tech it will be done in 15 turns.
3850bc. Worker done and moves to Cow. Starts building road next turn.
3700bc. Warrior produced and I start on a second Worker. Since I have ocean to my east, the Warrior starts off west, moving to the mountain for a better view. The worker joins him on the mountain to build a road.
3600bc. Warrior continues north and west along the line of the hills.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc3050.sav

3500bc. Worker produced. I start on a warrior. After that I’ll start on a settler.
3400bc. The mountain road is done and the worker continues due west. The second worker moves to the mountain next to the tiny lake to my south west for a better view. My warrior is moving west from the end of the connected mountains to another mountain.
3300bc. I discover Bronze Working and start on Pottery which will take only 8 turns. An American scout appears just south of Carthage and I make contact. He has pottery and lacks alphabet. I don’t make the trade, but switch to researching The Wheel instead assuming I can get Pottery from him almost any time.
3250bc. I finally find a hut, only to get barbarians from it. I finish my warrior in Carthage and start on a settler. The warrior moves north and east.
3200bc. My warrior kills the attacking barbarians and is promoted to Elite. I begin irrigating the Cow, and my 1st worker moves further west to continue the road.
3050bc. I find a barbarian worker in the north east.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc3050.sav

2850bc. I build my settler and move him towards the forest on the west side of “tiny lake”. Since America is south I want to expand that way first.
2750bc. Uticia founded. I also see the borders of another civ to my north.
2710bc. I capture a second barbarian worker on a hill to the north.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc3050.sav

Preturn (still at 2590bc)
Change production from hoplite to archer in Carthage

Enter*
Palace expands

2550bc (31)
workers and warriors move

2510bc (32)
Carthage gets archer/set Granary
archer moves west
workers road
warrior captures enemy worker

Enter*
We trade Alphabet for Wheel with Iroquois

2470bc (33)
workers irrigate
warrior sees horse

2430bc (34)
workers split up: one goes toward horse, the other goes to hill
warriors and archer explore
worker roads on beaver
other worker roads toward horse
worker roads hill

2350 ((35)
Warrior walks into Persia!
warrior moves back toward home

Persia wants us to move
We want to trade for a tech but he has nothing and is broke

2310bc (36)
Warrior steps out of Persia
workers road

2270bc (37)
Worker moves to horse
warriors explore

2230bc (38)
worker roads horse (to connect with colony perhaps)

Utica gets warrior/set to settler
2190bc (40) misnumbered somewhere
workers hope to connect both our cities with roads soon
warriors explore

Save for turns 31-40

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc2190.sav

This was a slow time period for me. Just researching, building and waiting...


2550bc. I actually have too MANY workers. I shouldn’t have wasted the build of the second worker, but I was hoping for more huts and a shot at a settler.
2270bc. I meet the Iroquois. They won’t give me mysticism for alphabet. I check the other civs. America is even with me in tech. The Aztecs have Iron Working, but I’ll have that in 4 turns. Then I’ll go talk to the Iroquois again.
2150bc. I discover Iron Working. The Aztecs have traded Alphabet to the Iroquois for Mysticism. Of course they seem to trade 1 for 1 with each other… I get Mysticism from America for Iron Working.
1990bc. I discover Persia south of America. I trade him Ceromonial Burial for his $13 just to get him from Annoyed to Cautious. He’s 2 techs behind everyone else.
1910bc. Uticia builds a settler and starts working on a Temple.
1870bc. A TERRIBLE turn. My new settler blindly walks in front of a barbarian. From the west, a barbarian comes out of the dark, kills a worker and then pillages my settler production in Carthage which was 2 turns from completion!
1675bc. Carthage builds a settler. However the 2 settlers lost should seriously damage my QSC. Lesson learned is to keep at least 1 warrior at home. I don’t know if I’d start escorting my settlers unless I have an extra warrior doing nothing though.
1600bc. Leptis Magna founded on the western coast. I’ve got a culture bridge built across the continent now…for all the good it does.
1575bc. I discover Writing and start on MapMaking which will take 20 turns.
1525bc. Carthage builds a settler and should produce one every 7 turns without my intervention. Settler moves to capture the Ivory and horse resources just northwest of Carthage.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc2190.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc1790.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_bc1525.sav

Turns 2190bc -1790bc

Preturn: we are not growing fast enough
moved citizens around a bit to help city growth

2150bc
worker completes road to horse. builds colony
warrior south of Persia may be in a bad way. We'll see if there is land ahead, not water

2110bc
all workers road
poor warrior sees spices below Persia, but alas he is trapped

2070bc
barb enters Carthage - and we are caught with our pants down. Unprotected. Damn.
Warrior goes to spices. He might as well. No place else except Persia

2030bc
Carthage was pillaged.
workers move back to Carthage
one Warrior moves into - America, I think. (Oh dear. We already met them.)

It was the Iroquois!
We trade 85 gold for Iron
Carthage builds warrior/ set swordsman

1990bc
sentry warrior
workers mine
we build colony on furs

1950bc
moved warriors around
we get writing/ set for map making
1910bc
warrior is surrounded by aztecs.

1870bc
warrior is not attacked. But he is at an edge.

1830bc
workers mine

1790bc
archer sees iron
warrior had to step into Persia to avoid walking into the sea


the save

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc1790.sav

PattonTwo 3rd Report

Again, this was mostly a building and waiting time.

1450bc. I am fortunate that my latest settler sees the barbarian move next to him as opposed to the other way around. I send the warrior from Carthage and kill the barbarian.
1400bc. Theveste built near horses and ivory. I start on a warrior, and a temple will follow.
1350bc. Carthage builds settler. He heads east and north to found on the coast.
1300bc. Hippo founded on north east coast next to horses. Starts on a temple.
1175bc. Carthage builds settler. I start on a Barracks and then will build some Horsemen. The Aztecs for now are my first target. After them will come the Americans, who seem to have no Iron or Horses!
1100bc. Leptis Minor built due north of Carthage just north of the mountain.

I forgot to do the 1025bc save, so this is my closest recreation. I had to play forward from 1275 to get it. It should be very close.

975bc. Carthage builds Barracks and starts on Swordsman.
875bc. I finish Polytheism and start on Monarchy, due in 18 turns.
825bc. I research Map Making and start on Polytheism heading towards Monarchy.
775bc. I’m up to 6 cities. Carthage is busy building Swordsmen, and 2 other cities are SLOWLY building Barracks. I’m guestimating war with the Aztecs in another 20 – 30 turns. Monarchy is 13 turns away, and will help.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_1275bc.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_1025bc.sav
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/PattonTwo_QSC_C2r_775bc.sav

Turns 1790bc -1525bc


Aztecs ask us to move. We say we will

1750bc
archer moves south

1725bc
our archer kills a barb and is now elite!

1700bc
our archer breaks up a barb camp and we gold
workers in Carthage

1675bc
Carthage builds a settler. set another in 6 turns
settler moves west
archer moves and sees another barb camp!

1650bc
our brave elite archer faces barbs, kills one
settler moves to horse. Ahkkkk. A barb camp is right close by

1625bc
Settler builds on horse, and the camp is dispersed and we get gold.
We build Leptis Magna
Archer finishes off barb camp

1600bc
Bad times. Leptis Magna overrun by barbs AND barbs attacked our colony

1575bc
Utica's warrior kills barb
Our palace expands

1550bc
Carthage gets another settler/ set for Swordsman
settler moves
workers prepare to connect Laptis Magna by road soon

1525bc
Utica gets settler/ set Swordsman
one settler moves north, another starts south
workers road
warrior moves to protect settler
archer moves near crouching barb

The save
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/stwils_QSC_C2r_bc1525.sav

1500 – Science reduced to 70%, Luxuries 0%. Barracks built in Utica and Theveste. Spartans being produced.

1475 – Warrior defending northern Settler destroys Barb Village. Warrior east of Theveste destroys Barb Village. 2 Workers sent to connect iron east of Carthage.
Try to trade Literature with everyone. America offers the best deal. Gives me Map Making, Horseback Riding, Territory Map and 5 gold. Aztecs give World Map and 20 gold. Iroquois give World Map and 6 gold. Persians give World Map for Ceremonial Burial. I now know scope of the entire continent. All civs are polite toward me.

1450 – Sabratha founded. Production in Theveste switched to Galley. Production in Utica switched to Horseman. Researching Philosophy.

1425 – Science increased to 70%.

1400 – Road completed to Sabratha.

1350 – First Warrior upgraded to Swordsman. Luxuries increased to 10% to prevent unrest in Carthage when pop increases.

1325 – Galley built at Theveste. Galley sets off to discover new lands. Production to Spartan.

1275 – Trade Persia Mysticism for World Map and all his gold (25).

---End of Turn 70---

1250 – Science reduced to 60%, Luxuries 0%.

1200 – 2 more Warriors upgraded to Swordsmen.

1175 – Science reduced to 50%, Luxuries 10%. Workers improving squares. Warriors moving to Barracks towns to upgrade. Towns building Horsemen and Spartans to invade northern neighbors.

1150 – Galley takes chance and heads east. Sees coastal sea squares of other continent. Now if she can just survive those storm clouds gathering on the eastern horizon.

1125 – Utica builds another Horseman. Set to work building another. Inventory of military units is 5 Swordsmen, 2 Horsemen, 1 Spartan and 2 Warriors. Soon my neighbors will feel the Zagnutian blitz. Wait, what is that a carrier pigeon flying in with a message from my Galley. Zounds, it has survived the storm. The captain, by the name of Europus, will have the new land named after him and be promoted to Admiral on his return.
1100 – Make contact with Chinese. They have Polytheism and want Writing and Contact with the other civs. I don’t want them to have contact, so decline to trade. However, I give them 1 gold to keep on good terms.

1075 – Discover Code of Laws. Researching Republic. Science increased to 60%, Luxuries 20%. Military units moving into place on border of Aztecs.

1050 – Luxuries reduced to 10%.

1025 – Contact with Germany. Trade it Literature, Pottery and Mysticism for Contact with the Greeks, World Map and all their gold (44). The Greeks have no techs I need, but I trade them Contact with the Chinese for World Map and all their gold (25). Still no gold per turn trades. The Chinese will not trade Polytheism without Contact with one of the civs on my continent. I don’t want that and so trade them Contact with the Germans for their Territory Map and 19 gold. I now know the entire world and have contact with all civs.
Luxuries increased to 20%.

---End of Turn 80---

1000 – The Aztecs declare war on me! Jag and a Settler(?) cross my border near Hippo in the NE. Swordsman sent to intercept. A Jag attacks my northern most city and is repulsed by the Spartan. Love that 3 defense.

2 Barbs approaching Utica. Upgrade my final Warrior to a Swordsman in Utica.

Switch from Great Library to Pyramids in Carthage. Since I am ahead of every other civ in techs, the Pyramids will be more valuable. Note that with pop up to 7 in Carthage the Granary is no longer effective (?).

975 – A foxy Barb Horsemen sneaks around my defender at Utica and kills one of my Workers. My Swordsman gives him a particularly gruesome end. Meanwhile at Hippo, the Jag escorting a Settler is dispatched and 2 Workers are captured and set to work building a road.
Teotihuacan is captured, no loses. Starve pop. Luxuries reduced to 10%.

950 – Swordsman from Utica going after Barbs in shaded zone. Granary still not effective in Carthage. What is going on?

900 – Swordsman destroys Barb Village.

875 – Trade China Code of Laws, Map Making and Contact with America for Polytheism, Mathematics, World Map and all their gold (71). Trade Greeks Contact with America for World Map and all their gold (25). Germany has no gold and I don’t need their World Map.

850 – Tenochtitlan captured. No loses. Starve pop.
Now Granary is functioning in Carthage. What happened? I took no action.
Workers build road to elephant in Leptis Magna, anticipating cultural increase from Temple.

825 – Talelco destroyed.

800 – Galley sinks Barb Galley.

775 – Galley sinks another Barb Galley. Forces moving on last Aztec city.

---End of Turn 90---

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc1275.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc1025.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Zagnut_QSC_c2r_bc775.SAV

I'm looking now at the screen shots some of you have included in your 1525bc log/save.

Wow. I can't believe how many cities some of you have! I only have 3.

stwils - running fast trying to keep up.

61. 1500BC: Aztec Jaguar(jag) appears 3 tiles NE of LMa. After counting cities vs units i must rethink my productions. Change from settler to barracks in Car and Utica. Change from worker to barracks in Hippo. Keep building granary in LMi. Send warrior from hill NE of LMi to LMa to be upgraded. Fortify Swordsman(SM) in LMa. Send warrior fortified on horses to LMa to be upgraded. Start building road on hill NE of LMi with native workers. Move slaves to floodplains NE of Thev to road and irr later. Change order from Sp. Hoplite(SH) at LMa to horseman(HM).

62. 1475BC: W2 start irr at flood NE of Thev.

63. 1450BC: Aztecs declare war. Jag attacks LM from NE, he dies. Upgrade warrior at LM. Last warrior enter LM. Sabratha founded at hill 3 tiles ENE of LMi, start prod warrior there. Road on hill NE of LMi finished, W1 move to shielded grass SE of LMi to mine and road.

64. 1425BC: Two new jag's come south from Teotihuacan(Teo). Order one SM to fortify on mnt. W of Hippo. SM2 attacks and kills one of the jag's outside LMa. Road and irr finished at floods NE of Thev.

65: 1400BC: Order Regular SM to move to hill 3 tiles NW of Sa to watch for barb camps since Sa is undefended, he will also snag any settler or jags coming from the aztecs. The last jag from last round has fortified outside LM, i send the last SM in LMa to kill him. I now have a rough defence that should be prepared for most that the Aztecs have to send at me. Barracs is finished at Car, order HM. With the 2 horses soon finished I will have mobility and ability to strike along my entire northern border within one rounds notice. Send slaves to mountain W of Hippo to build road to further increase my dencive mobility.

66. 1375BC: SM norht of LM returns to LMa. Mine finished at shielded grass SW of LMi, start and finish road. SM reach hill 3 tiles NW of Sa. Trade mysticism from Iroq for 46G, Iroq has 4 cities now and no new techs. Americans and Persians both have 3 cities, and no new tech - persia is least advanced. From what I can see on my map Aztecs also only have 3 cities. Literature finished in 2 rounds. Whip barracks at Utica.

67. 1350BC: Barracks finished at U, order SM. HM finished at LM, order SM. Fortify SM and HM at LMa, fortify SM at hill 3 tiles NW of Sa. Move native workers to grass S of LMi. Persian settler and spear moves north SW of U.

68. 1325BC: Literatur finished, start researching poly at 90% science - will finish in 9 rounds. Jag comes down to mnt. N of Hippo, sacrifice my HM from SM trying to remove him Aztec now has a GA to bolster its military, upside is that he will prbly have research to give me when I make him sue for peace.Move SM from mnt. W of Hippo into Hippo, and SM in LMa to mnt. E of Hippo to protect the slaves working there.

69. 1300BC: Jag retreats to heal I guess. HM finished at Car, order temple at Car. Road finished at mnt. E of Hippo. Move SM from Hippo to fortify on that mnt. Tries to move SM at mnt. to fortify at LM, mistake him for worker and move him to hill 2 tiles SW of LM instead. Move slaves to hill 2 tiles SW of LM to mine and make road, one crosses river SE of hill on automove move rest manually proper way to get them there in this turn. Sucks that automove can't figure the fastest route from A to B.

70. 1275BC: Second grass tile mined and roaded S of LMi. Change order at Sa from warrior to granary. SAVE MADE.

71. 1250BC: Move native workers to last grass tile 2 tiles SW of LMi. Fortifies SM in LMa.

72. 1225BC: Jag comes down to forest 2 tiles NW of LMa. Attack it first with SM on mnt E of Hippo. Jag retreats 1 tile NE, follow and kill it with SM in LMa. Start mine on last grass tile SW of LMi.

73. 1200BC: Move SM back to mnt. E of Hippo. Move SM S to tile NW of LM. Start mine on hill 2 tiles SW of LM. 2 warriors from Xerxes come north, 3 tiles SW of Utica - he can't be serious to threaten me with that... Xerxes founds Arbela 4 tiles NW of Utica. Hiawata founds Cattaraugus 4 tiles WNW of H. That makes Iroq citycount 5 and Persias 4. Move HM from LMa to Car to keep the mood up.

74. 1175BC: Xerxes crosses my borders, and is now 2 tiles WNW of Utica. I warn him, and he assures me he will retreat - i hope so for his sake. Aztec sue for peace, I laugh at him. I really need a bigger military fast, whip a SM at Theveste. Mine and road finished on the last grass tile with shield SW of LMi.

75: 1150BC: Xerxes keep moving into my empire, after this warning the 2 warriors warp out to 2 tiles E of Arbeia. Move SM from T to fortify 1 tile S of Thev. Move native workers to finish linking Sa to the rest of my empire - 1 tile SW of Sa. Conquest/domination victory seem far away at this point. Hiawata has researched philosophy. I will not trade lit with him yet. 3. persian warrior comes north to 3 tiles S of Car. He's really on the move...

76. 1125BC: Finish researching poly. Trade it with Iroq for phil+42G. Trade it with Abe for 46G. Start researching monarhy at 90% science. Will be done in 14 rounds. Xerxes keeps trying to cross my borders, and he keeps sending them out when i tell him to. Temple finished at Car, order SM. Whip barracks at Hippo.

77. 1100BC: Same borderritual with Xerxes. Mine finished 2 tiles SW of LMa. Move slaves to hill NW of Car. SM finished at U, order new SM there. Road at tile SW of Sa links it to the rest of my empire.

78. 1075BC: SM finished at LMa, order new SM. Kill Aztec Archer at mnt N of Hippo with SM from mnt E of Hippo - SM still regular with 2HP left. See that Aztec has Mapmaking, try to sue for peace getting mapmaking - but he refuses. Slaves start mine on hill NW of Car. Natives start mine on tile SW of Sa. Move SM from LMa to Car. Xerxes still tries to cross my borders, he must be curios to the lands that I've not settled yet in the NE.

79. 1050BC: SM finished at Car, order new SM. I now have 7 SM and 1 HM, soon I can finish Aztecs off. Move SM into Hippo.

80. 1025BC: Granary finished at LMi, start barracks. Mine finished at Sa grass tile. Move natives to last shielded grass tile NW of Sa. Move SM from Car to mnt 3 tiles SSW of Car. Second SM fortify at Utica. SAVE MADE.

81. 1000BC: 2 Aztec archers come south towards Hippo, 2 tiles N on floodplains. Move SM in LM to Hippo. We trade tech with Abe, Mapmaking+worldmap for literature+worldmap+14G. I can see the greek city of corinth on the land W of Iroquois territory, but still no contacts. Iroquois has three ironsources close or in his territory, but not hooked up yet. The other three civs has no iron in or next to their territory. Xerxes is hooked up to horses deep in the south. I will try to take America and Persia before I go northwards, that means dealing a peacedeal for now with Aztecs. I get 25G and his worldmap for peace. I move my regular SM south from Hipo towards the mnt I allready have fortified with a SM. I will rally my units there before I take Abe.

82. 975BC: My peacedeal made my people upset. C riots , forgot to check that one. A persian archer comes north to join his warriors trek towards the free lands in the NE. I will have to declare war on both Abe and Xerxes so that persian forces will make no threat to my largely undefended cities. I change my order at Utica from SM tp Sp. Hoplite(SH). I could use a GA soon.

83. 950BC: Move HM and newly finished SM from Car to rallypoint.
SH finished at Utica, order new SH. I start my war in the south by declaring war on persia. SM at Utica kill warrior S of T. SM at Thev kill warrior S of Thev. SM at Utica kill W 3 tiles SW of C. SM at rallypoint kill archer 2 tiles ESE of Utica and is promoted to elite. Mine and road finished at grass NW of Sa and on hill NW of Car.

84. 925BC: Fortify wounded elite SM and vet SM at tiles W and SW of rallypoint. Move slaves and native workers southwards to link New York(NY) to my empire with road.

85. 900BC: SM finished at T, order HM. Change SM order at LMa to SH. Change SM order at C to SH. New rallypoint in forest 2 tiles NW of NY, move all healed units towards new rallypoint, except 1 SM in Thev, 1SM heading for Utica, 1SM fortified at mnt. E of Hippo and 1 fortified at hill 3 tiles NW of Sa.

86. 875BC: SM at Utica kills persian spear and captures settler(2 workers) 2 tiles SW of Utica, SM promoted to elite. Persian slaves set to buil road on that tile. SH finished and fortified at LMa. SH finished at Car, SH sent to rallypoint. Unitcount on, or en route to, rallypoint is 5 SM, 2 SH and 1 HM.

87. 850BC: Stops native worker to make a mine on ironhill W of LMi. Barracks finished at LMi, start HM.

88. 825BC: 2 persian HM comes to north to 2 tiles SE of Utica. Move SM from finished road 2 tiles SW of Utica to fortify in Utica, move persian slaves to plains N of U. Attack and kill one HM with HM from rallypoint. Move SH from rallyp to defend fighting HM. Declare war on america. Attack and kill warrior + settler E of rallypoint with regular SM. Move american slaves to rallypoint. Move 3 SM + 1 SH to the hill NW of NY from rally. Move SM from Thev to tile NE of Utica. Change order at Hippo to HM.

89. 800BC: Persia try to sue for peace, I refuse as he wont even give me a city. His HM kills my SM NE of Utica. My SM in Utica kills his HM. Car makes HM, I order a new HM. Elite SM kills spear in NY. Veteran SM kills spear in NY - NY destroyed - 1 worker captured. They allways whip their city down to 1 when I come knocking on their doors Move Slaves down to rallyp., amer slaves there start road. Change prod at Car to settler. Abe has built Philidelphia on his W coast, 4 tiles SSE of where NY was.

90. 775BC: Finished researching monarchy, start researching maths at 10% science. Start revolution. Maximise food harvesting in all cities, move native workers to other roadbuilders 3 tiles S of Car. My units position are: 2 SM, 1 SH and 1 HM 3 tiles NNE of washington. 1 elite SM healing where NY where. 1 elite SM healing in hills NE of where NY where + 1 SH and 1 HM in those hills. Abe and xerxes shouldn't take too long to fall now. But I'm still way behind schedule on a Conquest or domination victory within the next 30 turns.
Cities: 7.
Unitcount: 8 SM. 2 HM. 3 SH. 2 workers. 3 american slaves, 2 persian slaves, 2 barbarian slaves and 1 aztec slave.
Other civs: Persia 4 cities, America 3 cities, Aztec 4 cities and Iroquois 5 cities, none of them have a tech I dont have. Can see the easternmost greek city of corinth, but no contact. SAVE MADE.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_1275_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_1025_BC.SAV
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Singularity_QSC_C2r_775_BC.SAV

Here is a screen of the southend of my empire at 775BC:

You guys keep getting ahead of me and the data summary because I have to wait for the last stragglers while some of blitz ahead.

Here is the data sumamry table for all games up to 1525bc:



Hotrod has jumped out into the lead on the strength of a luccky contact surge getting contact with the other continent without the benefit of galleys and this also aids in his ability to trade and research techs even more favorably.

Zenga is the strongest technology player in the regent group with Nightfang and Skyfish close behind but in general the Regent group is legging behind the Emperor group in technology development even though their research is cheaper. Does any one have a clearer understanding of why this would be so??

We can begin to see the purpose of the Charis gambit in this game because he has the largers and most power single city and is only a few turns away from completing the Pyramids.

We are beginning to reach the top-out of the early positioning phase so we will see some radically shifts in power position in the coming turns as the different player begin to pursue their different paths to domination. One thing that does not clearly appear in the data is that in general the Regent worlds have fewer total cities in place across all civilizations and in general represent a much weaker combined progress by all the players (AI+Human) towards the objectives of civilizing the world in some way.

Emperor players can more easily trade with stronger neighbours for techs. Their writing research gave them much more techs to trade than we had, regent players mostly got gold or a slave if we where lucky. Emperor players also seem to have a higher pool of workers to buy from their bigger neighbours. I've only traded one worker for a tech, and after countless tries I've not seen one worker available on the diplo screen.

I suspect that the scores will even out and overlap from regent perspective as the weaker cities will fall easier to our military in the last two periods. A drawback for us at regent will be that the weaker cities will be size one in many cases, making it harder for us to capture them intact. And the infrastructure will be impaired on conquered regent territory as well. In the end I guess it will be the person with most knights and a well timed GA who will win the race into the other continent. In my case I doubt that I will even be able to start transporting my knights across to the next continent before last round is finished.

All in all there doesn't seem to be significant gains to be made from playing regent compared to emperor unless you start a very early war with warriors/horses only. Which none of us have done.

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An early GL will also have a huge impact on the scores here, since he can make a FP at a favourable location to erase the horrible early corruption in the game.

Cracker, you mentioned that there are less cities on Regent. That is not correct if you just look at the human players. The Emperors have 5.5 cities per player, while the Regents have 5.33. I think the difference is in the speed with which the AI can expand on Emperor level.

Singularity's explanation for the tech deficiency sounds plausible.

Zagnut, I think cracker meant that the Regent *AI* has fewer cities, so the overall planet, AI+human, is advancing more slowly. The tech deficiency is partly due to this as well. The player is much more likely to be first to get to a tech, meaning he spent 'full' price for it, compared to buying it at 3rd civ price or so.

Thanks agn cracker for the nice work and the summary. I'm looking forward to seeing how the different strategies all pan out in the end.

Charis

The AI's progress, both production wise and research, at Regent is slower due to the lack of bonus it gets at that level compared to Emperor. Add in a lack of huts in this map and it makes a big difference to the other civs. Buy a couple of workers, which restricts their road building (and hence research potential), and it cripples them.

Unless given a hideous start, up to Monarch level I find I can progress far quicker by self-researching at full speed from the start and trade for any techs the AI gets first. Being first to research any given tech gives the player many possibilities. In the Ancient Age, although gold is in short supply, taking whatever the rival civ has to offer allows science spending to be kept high for longer and takes away the option of upgrading for the rival, meaning the need for less military.

One thing I'm not sure of (if someone knows), does the AI in the early game ever research at deficit spending (assuming it has any gold)?

Sorry about posting last timeline before your nice summary sheat. How about everyone delay uploading last 3 saves and report untill after Crackers 1500-775 summary on saturday 23.feb? It would make everything more neat, and keep the 'spoilers' to a minimum.

I apologize for posting my 775 report early. When it said the third report (through 775) by Feb 19, I thought that meant we could post it anytime between Feb 16 and Feb 19, but not after Feb 19. I will hold off on my next report. After all, I don't want you folks learning my secrets too early.

I also was under the impression that the Timelines and saves were due today, not after today. Oh well.

Once my war breaks out, I stop recording my workers, and concentrate on my military actions.

1500BC
Work3 CTRL-R to next city site.
Found Hippo, start Barracks.
W3 fortifies.
W1 fortifies in LM.

1475BC
Work4 southeast to mine.

1450BC
Leptis Minor founded, starts warrior.
Worker outside Utica starts road.
Worker at horses starts cutting road to Leptis Magna.

1425BC
Worker finished with forest cutting, starts road to Leptis Minor.

Rival check -
Hiawatha (Cautious) - still does not possess Literature.
Monte (Polite) - still does not possess Literature.
Xerxes (Cautious) - still does not have Writing.
Abe (Cautious) - still does not have Literature.

1400BC
Utica finishes Barracks, start Hoplite.
Worker outside of Utica moves northwest to mine.

1375BC
A barb has come into view near my northeastern workers. Not sure I can get defenders there fast enough.
Carthage produces Settler, start Hoplite.
Settler to hill next to horses.
Worker near Carthage starts road.

1350BC
Settler and worker to LM, to get away from the barbarian.

1325BC
Finish Mathematics, start Map Making, which is due in 11 turns.
LM finishes Barracks, starts Hoplite.
Leptis Minor finishes warrior, who fortifies. Start Hoplite.
We hear tell that the Aztecs are building the Oracle, and the Persians the Colossus.
Worker near Carthage to south of town to mine.
Worker and settler wait in Utica.

1300BC
Barbarian attacks LM, fended off by our warrior.
Theveste completes Barracks, starts Hoplite.
Palace expansion.
Settler resumes journey.
Worker resumes getting horses hooked to road network.
Worker north of Utica starts road.
Road to Leptis Minor complete.
Worker in L Minor east to mine.
Road to Hippo complete.
Warrior from L Magna sent to find source of the barbarian menace.

1275BC
Monte has entered my territory with a single Jag Warrior. What is he up to?
Contact Monte, and make him withdraw the unit.
Worker in Hippo west to road furs.

Rival check -
Monte (Polite) - 4 cities, has Map Making.
I trade Mathematics for Map Making.
I trade World Map and 5gp for his world map.
Hiawatha - (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Map Making, Literature, or Mathematics.
I trade my world map for his and 19gp. Moves to Polite.
I trade Mathematics for 11gp.
Abe (Cautious) - 3 cities. Does not have Mathematics or Literature.
I trade my world map for his and 20gp.
I trade Mathematics for 11gp.
Xerxes (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Map Making, Literature, or Mathematics.
I trade Mathematics for 10gp.

-----End Turn 70-----

1250BC
Monte has declared war on me. Utica is captured, though he loses a Jag warrior in the process.
Found Sabratha, start Hoplite.
Worker outside of Utica back to my territory,

1225BC
Carthage completes Spartan, start new one.
New Hoplite to Utica.
Barbarian camp destroyed.
Horses from Sabratha hooked to all towns now.

1200BC
Warrior fortifies, future city site.
Hoplite attacks and beat Jag Warrior in Utica.
Golden Age begins!
Utica back under our control. Start Hoplite.
Sabratha changed to Hoplite.
Hippo changed to Hoplite.

1175BC
Hoplite fortfies in Utica.

1150BC
Workers assigned to tasks.

1125BC
Hoplite completed in Carthage. Sent to Utica. Start another Hoplite.
Furs hooked!

1100BC
Theveste completes Hoplite, fortify.
Hoplite in Utica fortifies.

1075BC
Some movement of workers, nothing to report.

1050BC
Complete Polytheism, go for Philosophy (4 turns).
Carthage completes Hoplite, start archer.
Hoplite to Utica.

1025BC
L Magna completes Hoplite, sent to Utica. Start Horseman.
L Minor completes Hoplite, fortifies. Start Archer.
Luxuries to 10%. Carthage is now size 7, wow!

-----End Turn 80-----

Rival check -
Monte (Furious) - They offer peace, but screw them. 5 cities now, and still does not have Literature.
Hiawatha (Polite) - 4 cities. Still does not have Literature.
I trade my world map for his.
Abe (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Literature or Polytheism.
I trade world maps with him.
Xerxes (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Literature, Map Making, or Polytheism.
I trade world maps with him.

1000BC
Carthage completes archer, starts Barracks.
Archer to Utica.
Hippo finishes Hoplite (fortifies) start new one.
Utica now has 4 hoplites and an archer.
L Magna is undefended (how did I let that happen?) Move Hoplite from Carthage to L Magna.
Move Hoplite from Utica to Carthage.

The Iriqouis contact me, wishing to trade Territory maps. I agree.

975BC
Jag Warrior comes into view, heading for L Magna. Hoplite arrives and fortifies.

950BC
Finish Philosophy, start Code of Laws.
Utica completes Hoplite, fortify and start swordsman.
Theveste finished Hoplite (fortify), start another one.
Sabratha completes Hoplite, sent to L Magna. Start new one.
Check Military advisor, we have a strong military compared to Monte.

925BC
Carthage completes Barracks, start new Hoplite.
Hoplite reaches L Magna, sent to engage Jag warrior and wins.
Three Hoplites from Utica, along with the archer, advance on Teot...

900BC
Archer approaching Hippo. Move hoplite from last turn to intercept.
Archer attacks Teot... - promoted to Veteran after killing their first spearman.
Will attack more next turn.
Monte still not offering good terms.

875BC
Carthage completes Hoplite, start Archer.
Hoplite to Utica.
L Minor completes archer, start another.
Archer to Theveste.
Archer attacks archer outside of Teot... - wins.
All Hoplites move to follow the archer.
Hoplite moves to protect worker.

850BC
Horseman completed in L Magna, start another.
Horseman attacks and kills Jag Warrior outside of Utica.
Archer attacks Teot... - falls, defended promoted.
Regular Hoplite attacks Teot... - falls, but defender redlined.
Veteran Hoplite attacks Teot... - Teot overrun and destroyed.

My my, his capital sure does look nice sitting over there...

825BC
Code of Laws learned, move on to The Republic.
Carthage completes Archer, start another.
Spend turn preparing stacks. Will take several turns for everyone to hook up.
Abe has been sneaking a settler through my land. Tell him to get out or face Hoplite death.

Monte begs for peace. I tell him to go stuff it.

800BC
Disorder in Carthage. Damn it. Lux to 20%, Tech to 80%.
Utica finishes swordsman, sent to meet approaching archer. Start Horseman.
Theveste completes Hoplite (fortify). Start another horseman.
Hippo completes Hoplite, start horseman.
Hoplite also to intercept archer.

775BC
Hoplite kills archer.
Swordsman diverted to help with attack on Monte's capital.

Rival check -
Monte (Furious) - screw him. 4 cities, does not have Philosophy or Literature.
Hiawatha (Cautious) - 4 cities. Does not have Phil, Code, Or Lit.
I trade World maps with him.
Abe (Annoyed) - 4 cities, does not have Phil or Lit.
I trade world maps with him.
Xerxes (Annoyed) - 5 citied, does not have Phil, Code, Lit, or Poly.
I trade world maps with him.

-----End Turn 90-----


Monte's capital will fall soon.

775BC Save
1025BC Save
1275BC Save

Turnlog 1500-775BC



--Turn 1--
Made on change before hitting enter on my 1525BC save.
Changed Carthage from spartan to barracks.

1500BC
Hippo builds chariot-starts chariot, Leptis Minor builds
worker-starts spartan, change sabratha to warrior

1475BC
Carthage builds barracks-starts chariot, Leptis Magna
builds settler-starts warrior

1400BC
Theveste builds settler-starts spartan, Oea founded
spartan started

1375BC
Discovered Map Making, stopped research to make gold for
upgrades. Carthage builds chariot-starts chariot.
Traded Map Making and Mathematics to aztecs for world
map, Philosophy and 24g. Traded Math and Map Making to
Persia for Mysticism, world map and 20g. Traded
Mysticism to Iroguois for world map and 23g.

1350BC
Leptis Magna builds warrior-start warrior. Can see tip
of another continent near Iroguois, changing Oea from
spartan to galley. Traded Math to America for
Horseback Riding. Upgraded one chariot.
Hadrumetum founded-warrior started.

1325BC
Upgraded chariot to horseman. Iron is being hooked
up now, to upgrade some warriors. Going to assault
the southlands first. As of right now, there are
only 4 cities to take. Turned Science slider back
up to 30% on Literature.

1275BC
Carthage builds horseman-starts horseman. Sabratha
builds warrior-starts warrior. Pop-rush spartan in
Rusicade.
--End of Turn 1--


--Turn 2--
1250BC
Hippo builds horseman-starts spartan. Rusicade builds
spartan-starts settler. Upgrade chariot to horseman.

1225BC
Utica builds spartan-starts settler. Leptis Magna
builds warrior-starts spartan. Upgrade chariot to
horseman & 4 warriors to swordsman.

1200BC
Carthage builds horseman-starts spartan. Leptis Minor
builds spartan-starts swordsman.

1150BC
Carthage builds spartan-starts swordsman. Sabratha
builds warrior-starts spartan.

1125BC
Pop-rushed galley in Oea.

1100BC
Oea builds galley-starts archer. Hadrumetum builds
warrior-starts swordsman. Upgrade warrior. Declared
war on Persia, killed warrior escorting settler.

1075BC
Carthage builds swordsman-starts horseman. Upgrade
two warriors. Attack Arbela, kill warrior and
swordsman goes elite.

1050BC
Utica builds settler-starts horseman. Hippo builds
spartan-starts swordsman. Capture Washington-lose
1 horseman, 2 others wounded. Destroyed Arbela.
--End of Turn 2--


--Turn 3--
1000BC
Carthage builds swordsman-starts swordsman.
Americans destroyed, neoCarthage enters Golden
Age. Leptis Magna and Theveste changed to
swordsman. Sabratha changed to horseman.

975BC
Meet Greeks and trade Philosophy, Map Making and
Math for world map, 60g and contact with chinese
and germans. Trade Map Making and Philosophy to
China for 60g and world map. Trade Writing to
Germans for 4g and world map.

950BC
Carthage & Leptis Magna build swordsman and
start one.

925BC
Literature discovered-start Code of Laws.
Theveste builds swordsman-starts swordsman.
Carthage changed to horseman.

900BC
Carthage builds horseman-starts horseman.
Hippo & Leptis Minor build swordsman- start
swordsman. Destroyed Pasagadae. Susa Destroyed.
Found center island with barb workers on it.

850BC
Carthage and Sabratha build horseman-start
horseman. Oea changed to settler.

800BC
Discovered Code of Laws, trade to aztecs for
20g. Carthage & Utica build horseman-start
horseman. Leptis Magna builds swordsman-starts
swordsman.

775BC
Hippo builds swordsman-starts swordsman.
army ready to go north from 3 spots now.
--End of Turn 3--



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc1275.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc1025.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Takeo_QSC_C2r_bc775.SAV

I am wondering why so many people are going for quick tech development in a domination game.
After getting iron working
and horseback riding I try to slow down the tech development and conquer the continent with swordsmen and horsemen.

The other continent should also be possible to start with sword-horse combination and finish off with knights.