TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Bugger!
I completely missed that
Sorry guys.
Ted
GOTM23 Succession Game [PTW]
- Thread starter ControlFreak
- Start date
I completely missed that
Sorry guys.
Ted
LordKestrel
King
Oh well, no more gpt trades for us 
It looks like the settlers were popping every 4 turns![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
I came into work early today, so I should be able to play in about 8 hours.
Any objectives for my 10? If we have the troops, I'll knock on Egypt's door, and keep working on building up an economy. Do we have any cities that would make a good prebuild for Sun Tzu's?
It looks like the settlers were popping every 4 turns
I came into work early today, so I should be able to play in about 8 hours.
Any objectives for my 10? If we have the troops, I'll knock on Egypt's door, and keep working on building up an economy. Do we have any cities that would make a good prebuild for Sun Tzu's?
edit3:
For the 4-turn settler pump, is MM on every turn required?
If we're going to aim for Sun Tzu, maybe a prebuild would be a good idea...
For the 4-turn settler pump, is MM on every turn required?
If we're going to aim for Sun Tzu, maybe a prebuild would be a good idea...
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
With being in Republic we're well over the requirements
In fact, we'll have to build military in between each Settler to avoid running the pop down too far.
I'll re-upload the files in an hour or so as uploads seem to be working again.
Ted
In fact, we'll have to build military in between each Settler to avoid running the pop down too far.
I'll re-upload the files in an hour or so as uploads seem to be working again.
Ted
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
OK Guys,
The link in my report is now working. Go grab it jimmydean
Ted
The link in my report is now working. Go grab it jimmydean
Ted
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
You may have noticed I edited in a **End of Spoiler 1** to your thread. The other team has been playing slower than you guys and has not reached the Spoiler Requirements of Full Map and Middle ages. Since you have and they have not, you are permitted to follow their progress in their thread until such a time as they leave the Ancient Age. I will post a similar warning post in their thread and let you know the RL date when they leave the AA. Until then you may read their thread and throw popcorn IN THEIR THREAD. But please do not give advice about their future moves. Do not share any information you have obtained after you reached the Middle age. You may comment on moves that either you or they have done in the Ancient Age.
denyd
Emperor
All couple of off the top of my pointy head thoughts:
First TJ & DS did a nice job
on the once proud Persian Empire.
Should we finish them off? I dont fear any culture flips, but is there any reason after the peace treaty ends (or before for that matter) to leave them in the game?
As for the next target, I noticed the discussion about Egypt. Why not take out Spain? They are nearby to our swordsmen and small. Only 5 cities, no horses and no iron hooked up. We would also gain gems if we managed to keep Barcelona from razing. We could gather the troops in Sirpleibidah and send them together to take out Toledo, Madrid, Barcelona, Seville and Santiago. That should be about 20 turns, just in time to use the remainder of the force to acquire Gordium. If we have enough swords, we should be able to keep producing horsemen for an Ansar Warrior upgrade (with an occasional spearman for MP duty in our new cities) in our main core.
I checked on the map and while the Ottoman & Rome dont have iron hooked up, it is within their borders.
Im normally a set production and let it go kind of player. When would I want to slip in a military unit in Mekkah (at what size)?
As for research, after Chivalry, Id like to get Invention. Being able to use a potential GL for Leos would make the upgrades a lot cheaper.
As for future targets, my preference would be:
1. Spain small, no iron, should be easy pickings, has gems.
2. India medium size growing, lets try to get them pre-elephant, has ivory.
3. France medium size and boxed in, try to get them pre-musketeer, has furs.
4. Carthage medium size but those NMs are a pain until AW arrive, no iron at all
5. Egypt medium, growing and next door, also has no iron at all
6. Zulu not that tough, but not very close, have to go through someone to get to
7. Ottoman a nice road block to keep Rome in check, but must go before Siphai
8. Rome not very tough now and contained by Ottoman, but very far away
I think my plan would be to use the Swordsmen on Spain and to finish off Persia. Once we have the Ansar Warriors ready, start with India (hopefully before elephants appear) and try to make quick work of them. Have a couple of settlers standing by fill in for any razed cities. This might be a good place to plop an FP if we get a GL (so many uses for one, we better get a couple just in case
) . Use the remaining swords as MPs for India. Once India is gone, hurry the AW to attack France and finish off the northern portion of our continent. Heading counter clockwise, the Zulu, Carthage and Egypt would be in line to join our empire. Then we can turn our attention to the Ottoman to complete the domination. I dont think well need the Roman lands for this to succeed.
First TJ & DS did a nice job
on the once proud Persian Empire.Should we finish them off? I dont fear any culture flips, but is there any reason after the peace treaty ends (or before for that matter) to leave them in the game?
As for the next target, I noticed the discussion about Egypt. Why not take out Spain? They are nearby to our swordsmen and small. Only 5 cities, no horses and no iron hooked up. We would also gain gems if we managed to keep Barcelona from razing. We could gather the troops in Sirpleibidah and send them together to take out Toledo, Madrid, Barcelona, Seville and Santiago. That should be about 20 turns, just in time to use the remainder of the force to acquire Gordium. If we have enough swords, we should be able to keep producing horsemen for an Ansar Warrior upgrade (with an occasional spearman for MP duty in our new cities) in our main core.
I checked on the map and while the Ottoman & Rome dont have iron hooked up, it is within their borders.
Im normally a set production and let it go kind of player. When would I want to slip in a military unit in Mekkah (at what size)?
As for research, after Chivalry, Id like to get Invention. Being able to use a potential GL for Leos would make the upgrades a lot cheaper.
As for future targets, my preference would be:
1. Spain small, no iron, should be easy pickings, has gems.
2. India medium size growing, lets try to get them pre-elephant, has ivory.
3. France medium size and boxed in, try to get them pre-musketeer, has furs.
4. Carthage medium size but those NMs are a pain until AW arrive, no iron at all
5. Egypt medium, growing and next door, also has no iron at all
6. Zulu not that tough, but not very close, have to go through someone to get to
7. Ottoman a nice road block to keep Rome in check, but must go before Siphai
8. Rome not very tough now and contained by Ottoman, but very far away
I think my plan would be to use the Swordsmen on Spain and to finish off Persia. Once we have the Ansar Warriors ready, start with India (hopefully before elephants appear) and try to make quick work of them. Have a couple of settlers standing by fill in for any razed cities. This might be a good place to plop an FP if we get a GL (so many uses for one, we better get a couple just in case
) . Use the remaining swords as MPs for India. Once India is gone, hurry the AW to attack France and finish off the northern portion of our continent. Heading counter clockwise, the Zulu, Carthage and Egypt would be in line to join our empire. Then we can turn our attention to the Ottoman to complete the domination. I dont think well need the Roman lands for this to succeed.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
IIRC Persia only has one city left (Gordium?) with no special resources so is neither here nor there in the grand scheme
Egypt is blocking our way to the South and threatens our second source of Horses so seem a natural target. I didn't look too hard elsewhere so you may well be right about Spain.
India is a bit of a stretch at the moment and is no real threat, lagging behind in tech quite badly.
Once the Ansars (4.2.3) are up & running you'll be amazed at their speed and utility. That extra movement point really makes them a force to be reckoned with. If you think Cavalry you won't be far off the mark. Plus the best they'll be fighting is Pikemen, Mercs and Muskets
Ansars are ideal for the advance, fight or pillage then retreat strategy with a couple of Spears or Pikes as their base camp.
By all means try Swords on Spain as I have a personal domination victory target of 1000AD for this game.
Let's go get 'em
Ted
Egypt is blocking our way to the South and threatens our second source of Horses so seem a natural target. I didn't look too hard elsewhere so you may well be right about Spain.
India is a bit of a stretch at the moment and is no real threat, lagging behind in tech quite badly.
Once the Ansars (4.2.3) are up & running you'll be amazed at their speed and utility. That extra movement point really makes them a force to be reckoned with. If you think Cavalry you won't be far off the mark. Plus the best they'll be fighting is Pikemen, Mercs and Muskets
Ansars are ideal for the advance, fight or pillage then retreat strategy with a couple of Spears or Pikes as their base camp.
By all means try Swords on Spain as I have a personal domination victory target of 1000AD for this game.
Let's go get 'em
Ted
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
lurker's comment:
@Control Freak, this is an excellent idea. What a fabulous way to compare your own game with the play of some very fine players. I hope to learn a lot and compare this game to mine.
@ The Team - What a fine decision you made going after Persia. Will you set up a second core there?
[/lurk]
@Control Freak, this is an excellent idea. What a fabulous way to compare your own game with the play of some very fine players. I hope to learn a lot and compare this game to mine.
@ The Team - What a fine decision you made going after Persia. Will you set up a second core there?
[/lurk]
denyd
Emperor
SB:
I'm hoping we decide on better land for the 2nd core. Persia is on similar turf to our homeland and not very condusive to larger populations (ie production).
I think the Persia decision was based mainly on location and the desire not to have to deal with Immortals (see Medal Play Game 6-2 as to why).
Enjoy the lurking (I've enjoyed lurking on your SG games so it seems fair).
TJ: I've also been following you DoubleWhammy SG, trying for 2 20K + 100K + UN + Dom on the same turn !!! Way too much math for me
I'm hoping we decide on better land for the 2nd core. Persia is on similar turf to our homeland and not very condusive to larger populations (ie production).
I think the Persia decision was based mainly on location and the desire not to have to deal with Immortals (see Medal Play Game 6-2 as to why).
Enjoy the lurking (I've enjoyed lurking on your SG games so it seems fair).
TJ: I've also been following you DoubleWhammy SG, trying for 2 20K + 100K + UN + Dom on the same turn !!! Way too much math for me
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I'm having a blast with Immortals in 6-2 right now. Excellent point. Another checkmark to put in the learning column.
[lurk]
[lurk]
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I think MB1 is a fine example of what an SG can be.Originally posted by denyd
TJ: I've also been following you DoubleWhammy SG, trying for 2 20K + 100K + UN + Dom on the same turn !!! Way too much math for me
For me, it started as a group of individuals who quickly became a team, sharing and taking on board each others viewpoints and ideas to develop strategies and plans to realise a goal. If only life could always be that good.
Ted
LordKestrel
King
Running later than I thought, but I can grab it in a few hours.
I'll take a look at the save, but it's very likely that Spain is a more suitable target. One thing about Egypt: Once we start fighting them, we'll likely trigger their GA, so they'll become stronger before they become weaker.
I wholeheartedly agree with taking on the Ottomans BEFORE Siphai arrive. I've just finished up my 4th Monarch game, and 3 of them were as the Ottos. Once I had Siphai in my hands, the rest of the world trembled.
The 4th game was with China, which also has a movement 3 Knight replacement. That extra movement was absurdly powerful, allowing me to take out 4 full civs, and most of a 5th by the time my GA ended. Of course, I had prebuilt 40 horsemen to upgrade first
We should have a large force of horsemen ready to upgrade once we learn Chivalry. I don't know how long we want to put off learning Chivalry, but upgrading is cheaper than building.
I'll take a look at the save, but it's very likely that Spain is a more suitable target. One thing about Egypt: Once we start fighting them, we'll likely trigger their GA, so they'll become stronger before they become weaker.
I wholeheartedly agree with taking on the Ottomans BEFORE Siphai arrive. I've just finished up my 4th Monarch game, and 3 of them were as the Ottos. Once I had Siphai in my hands, the rest of the world trembled.
The 4th game was with China, which also has a movement 3 Knight replacement. That extra movement was absurdly powerful, allowing me to take out 4 full civs, and most of a 5th by the time my GA ended. Of course, I had prebuilt 40 horsemen to upgrade first
We should have a large force of horsemen ready to upgrade once we learn Chivalry. I don't know how long we want to put off learning Chivalry, but upgrading is cheaper than building.
LordKestrel
King
Playing now. It's been interesting so far.
Spain certainly looks weak enough for an opponent, and they are still in Despotism with no likeliehood of a GA any time soon. They do have swordsmen, one is escorting a settler through our territory right now. If we go after them, 3 of 5 towns will autoraze, so send in settlers, or someone else will grab the land, not that it's much of a prize.
If it weren't for Spain being kinda in the way, I'd almost say go for France first. They also have a settler walking through our zone, and it's only defended by a spear, and a couple of slave workers to start things off is always fun :devil2:. The French and Indians tie for best land held by our future victims, either one would be a good 2nd core location. Also only 3 towns look like they'all autoraze.
Alas, we have too few swords to tackle an opponent that large, but once the Ansars come along...
If it weren't for Spain being kinda in the way, I'd almost say go for France first. They also have a settler walking through our zone, and it's only defended by a spear, and a couple of slave workers to start things off is always fun :devil2:. The French and Indians tie for best land held by our future victims, either one would be a good 2nd core location. Also only 3 towns look like they'all autoraze.
Alas, we have too few swords to tackle an opponent that large, but once the Ansars come along...
LordKestrel
King
Turnlog
Inherited turn
MM Makkah to grow in 1, settler in 3. This will allow it to reach size 7 when it pops the settler, taking us back down to 5.
MM Najran to not riot next turn.
MM Madinah to remove entertainer, giving it +1gpt to treasury and +4 beakers
MM Baghdad to +9spt, giving horseman every 4 turns instead of 5.
1/8/1 318 gold, -54gpt. Feudalism due in 6.
Trading situation:
Egypt and Rome both have Republic already, so we no longer have a monopoly.
Spain 58 gold, 0gpt
Ottomans 0 gold, 0gpt
Carthage 3 gold, 0gpt
France 91 gold, 0gpt
Zulu 22 gold, 0gpt
Persia 1 gold, 0gpt
India 1 gold, 0gpt
Rome up Monarchy, 138 gold, 0gpt
Egypt even, 63 gold, 0gpt
We could potentialy pull in an updated world map plus 175 gold for Republic. I don't think it is worth putting the entire world in a better government though.
Interesting note: Both the Ottomans and Persia are Scientific, yet neither received a free tech upon entering the Middle Ages. That feature must have been removed from this GOTM.
The entire world is Annoyed/Furious with us Nothing like an early crimp in our style.
Hit enter
IBT - 2 Ottoman warrior and 2 Ottoman archers move right next to our territory. I think we just found our next target. They'll likely move in next turn.
Carthage NM/settler pair seen moving around in our far south.
1. 150BC
Madinah completes horseman, starts horseman.
MM Makkah to grow in 2/build in 2
Newly built horseman moves south towards the Ottomans.
Horseman in between Makkah/Madinah heads south as well.
Settler/sword pair head for the edge of the plains east of Gordium.
I notice that Feudalism is due in only 2 turns now.
Egypt is up Feudalism, 9gold
Rome up Feudalism, Monarchy, 318 gold
Zulu up Feudalism, 16 gold, down Republic
France up Feudalism, Monarchy 0 gold
We get Feudalism, WM, 16 gold from Zulu for Republic.
I drop research to 0, with the lone scientist in Antioch researching Monotheism, due in 40.
Hawking our WM gets us 4 gold and an updated WM.
284 gold, +35gpt
Our best shield producing city can build Sun Tzu's in 66 turns @9 spt. Even with a GA that will take forever. I think we'll need a leader to rush it. No other civs are working on it yet. Rome is building the Hanging Gardens in Rome, which is the only wonder being produced at this time.
Start moving troops down towards the Ottoman border.
IBT - Quite a few more Ottoman troops show up outside Dharan. 4 archers, 2 warriors and 2 horsemen.
Romans are building Sun Tzu's in Neapolis.
2. 130BC
Kufah builds worker, starts horseman.
I politely ask for the Ottomans to step off of our turf. Osman responds by throwing down the gauntlet. We are now at war with the Ottomans.
Our populace is happier now
4/4 horseman retreats from 4/4 warrior, leaving him at 3/4.
4/4 horseman loses to 3/3 warrior, promotes him to 3/4.
3/3 swordsman kills 3/3 archer, at 2/3.
Still moving troops south.
Establish embassy with Rome for 47 gold.
Picture of Rome
Their capital is size 4, and producing 11 spt. Their slider is at 4/6/0. Currently in a Monarchy. Building settler, due in 2.
The only buildings in their capital are the Palace and The Great Library.
They have Wines and Incense hooked up, but no horses or iron.
Producing 8 culture/turn, with 304 right now.
Find out that Rome won't accept a MA against the Ottomans. Apparently we had shabby dealings with the Ottomans in the past, and Rome is holding that against us
I sign a ROP with Rome, so at least if they do ally against us, they'll take a rep hit. Their attitude moves from Annoyed to Cautious.
While moving swordsmen around, I notice that Spain has a pair of archers near us. They may be heading for Carthage, but probably not. Spain is polite.
I establish an embassy with Carthage to see if they'll join us.
Picture of Carthage
Carthage has 3 luxes plus a source of iron and horses attached. Size 2, producing 3spt. Building Library, due in 14. Currently in Despotism.
Carthage won't ally with us either. Apparently a treaty with us isn't worth the paper it's written upon.
We pay get dogpiled here, as we can't sign any up against the Ottomans, and they can pay the world to take us out.
I don't sign a ROP with Carthage, as they have settlers skirting our territory, and I don't want to make it easier for them to settle.
Pucker factor is currently 9 as I hit enter.
IBT - 3 Spanish archers and a swordsman are on our border.
A Carthage swordsman and archer also look like they want to come play.
More otto troops arrive
Barb horseman appears near Antioch, will sack it next turn.
Egypt is building Sun Tzu's in Thebes.
3. - 110BC
Makkah completes settler, starts horseman.
Damascus completes horseman, starts pikeman.
Riyadh completes horseman, starts pikeman.
Dahran completes temple, starts pikeman.
Najran completes temple, starts walls.
Basra riots.
Ottomans have 2 horsemen, 4 archers and 2 warriors near Dhahran. Currently being guarded by 2 4/4 swordsmen and a 1/4 horseman.
4/4 sword attacks 3/3 horseman, wins, still 4/4
Shuffling troops around to deal with possible attacks up north. Notice a Persian archer heading our way.
256 gold, we'll lose some IBT, so I spend what I can rushing.
64 gold rushing barracks in Alexmanistan.
84 gold rushing pikeman in Jeddah.
56 gold rushing pikeman in Madinah.
52 gold, +26 gpt
IBT -
Ottoman 3/3 archer loses to 4/4 swordsman, 2/4 left
Ottoman 3/3 archer loses to 4/4 swordsman, 1/4 left, promotes.
Ottoman 3/3 archer kills 2/4 swordsman, 3/3 left.
Antioch sacked by Cuman tribe, steal 2 gold.
Several more Spanish archers/swordsmen show up.
4. - 90BC
Madinah completes pikeman, starts pikeman.
Baghdad completes horseman, starts horseman.
Jeddah complete pikeman, starts pikeman.
Basra completes temple, starts walls.
Alexmanistan completes barracks, starts pikeman.
4/4 horseman kills 3/3 archer, 2/4 left.
4/4 swordsman kills 3/3 spearman, 4/4 left.
Anjar founded, starts spearman.
IBT - 4/4 horseman loses to 5/5 horseman, 4/5 left.
2/5 swordsman loses to 3/3 archer, promotes, 3/4 left.
Egypt is building the Hanging Gardens in Giza.
5. - 70BC
4/4 swordsman loses to 4/4 warrior, 3/4 left
4/4 swordsman causes 4/5 horseman to retreat, 4/4 left.
Manage to get a Pikeman to Dhahran, so it should be fine.
Movement
IBT - Spain offers her WM in exchange for our WM and Feudalism. I show her the door.
Indians are building the Hanging Gardens in Delhi.
4/4 swordsman causes 3/3 horseman to retreat, 4/4 left.
4/4 horseman wins to 3/3 archer, 2/4 left.
6. - 50BC
Makkah completes horseman, starts azap.
Diriyah completes horseman, starts horseman.
Dharhan completes pikeman, starts horseman.
Pillage Ottoman horses.
3/3 sword kills 3/3 spear, promotes, 4/4 left.
4/4 sword kills 1/3 horse, 4/4 left.
4 Spanish archers, a swordsman and a spear/settler combo are on our western border. I don't know if they're debating joining this war, or if they are just barb hunting.
IBT - Ottomans sign MA with the Zulu against us.
Zulu are building Sun Tzu's.
2/4 horseman wins against 3/4 warrior, 1/4 left.
Persia signs MA with Zulu against us.
3/3 persian archer commits suicide against the walls of Snagha.
Antioch ransacked by barbs, lose 5 gold.
7. - 30BC
Damascus builds pikeman, starts pikeman.
Antioch finally builds warrior, starts temple.
Ottomans still won't talk.
4/4 sword dies to 3/3 spear, 2/3 left
3/3 sword kills 2/3 spear, 2/3 left
4/4 horse kills 3/3 warrior, 3/4 left
IBT - lots of movement, but no attacks. Ottomans have a lot of reinforcements show up.
8. - 10BC
Madinah completes pikeman, starts pikeman.
Baghdad completes horseman, starts pikeman.
4/4 sword kills 3/3 spear, 4/4 left
4/4 horse kills 3/3 spear, 2/4 left
Edrine autorazed
2/3 sword dies to 2/5 horse
4/4 sword kills 4/4 impi, 1/4 left
Ottomans will talk, but will only accept a straight up peace. I'd like to at least take Uskudar before accepting peace. They are up Monotheism and Monarchy. I'll see if I can do a gpt trade for Monotheism, as you can do them during peace negotiations.
IBT - Pucker factor heads back to 9, as Spanish archers wander through our core. I can't tell her to get out, as we can't affor another civ jumping on the pile.
9. - 10AD
Complete trade link with Carthage and Egypt. Neither has any luxes available, however Egypt needs iron and spices. We can't trade them however, as our rep is shot
Carthage needs spices and silks, but again, we can't trade them.
Rush azap in Dharhran for 88 gold.
IBT - 4/4 pikeman wins against 4/4 warrior, 4/4 left.
Movement all over the place.
Indians building Sun Tzu's in Madras.
10. - 30AD
Makkah completes azap, starts azap
Dharhan completes azap, starts azap
4/4 azap kills 3/3 archer, 4/4 left.
Move some units toward Uskudar
There are several workers and the azap in Makkah that have moves left. I'll let the next player decide how to use them.
There is a settler/spear pair northeast of Basra with moves left. I was going to move them to the iron, but the Spanish stole it from under our feet. There are barb nearby, and Spanish and French settler pairs.
Research is currently at 31 turns remaining to Monotheism. If we don't get it for peace with the Ottomans, then we should turn that up, as by the time the 70 turns at min research complete, we'll be facing muskets with our ansars.
We're at 104 gold, +39gpt. 9/0/1
Here is our land:
Arabian holdings
The save
I apologize for the sorry state of affairs that our land is in. I think things could've been better if the Ottomans hadn't decided that they wanted to scrumm. They seem to be wholely concerned with taking Dharhran, so it's been easier than I thought. I've only seen 2 persian archers, 1 zulu warrior and 1 zulu impi, so they haven't been much of a threat.
ATTENTION -- Looking at the picture, I just noticed that I hadn't moved a horseman near Persia. He is fortified, and there is a Persian archer next to him. You will want to wake him up this turn, and attack the archer.
Inherited turn
MM Makkah to grow in 1, settler in 3. This will allow it to reach size 7 when it pops the settler, taking us back down to 5.
MM Najran to not riot next turn.
MM Madinah to remove entertainer, giving it +1gpt to treasury and +4 beakers
MM Baghdad to +9spt, giving horseman every 4 turns instead of 5.
1/8/1 318 gold, -54gpt. Feudalism due in 6.
Trading situation:
Egypt and Rome both have Republic already, so we no longer have a monopoly.
Spain 58 gold, 0gpt
Ottomans 0 gold, 0gpt
Carthage 3 gold, 0gpt
France 91 gold, 0gpt
Zulu 22 gold, 0gpt
Persia 1 gold, 0gpt
India 1 gold, 0gpt
Rome up Monarchy, 138 gold, 0gpt
Egypt even, 63 gold, 0gpt
We could potentialy pull in an updated world map plus 175 gold for Republic. I don't think it is worth putting the entire world in a better government though.
Interesting note: Both the Ottomans and Persia are Scientific, yet neither received a free tech upon entering the Middle Ages. That feature must have been removed from this GOTM.
The entire world is Annoyed/Furious with us
Nothing like an early crimp in our style. Hit enter
IBT - 2 Ottoman warrior and 2 Ottoman archers move right next to our territory. I think we just found our next target. They'll likely move in next turn.
Carthage NM/settler pair seen moving around in our far south.
1. 150BC
Madinah completes horseman, starts horseman.
MM Makkah to grow in 2/build in 2
Newly built horseman moves south towards the Ottomans.
Horseman in between Makkah/Madinah heads south as well.
Settler/sword pair head for the edge of the plains east of Gordium.
I notice that Feudalism is due in only 2 turns now.
Egypt is up Feudalism, 9gold
Rome up Feudalism, Monarchy, 318 gold
Zulu up Feudalism, 16 gold, down Republic
France up Feudalism, Monarchy 0 gold
We get Feudalism, WM, 16 gold from Zulu for Republic.
I drop research to 0, with the lone scientist in Antioch researching Monotheism, due in 40.
Hawking our WM gets us 4 gold and an updated WM.
284 gold, +35gpt
Our best shield producing city can build Sun Tzu's in 66 turns @9 spt. Even with a GA that will take forever. I think we'll need a leader to rush it. No other civs are working on it yet. Rome is building the Hanging Gardens in Rome, which is the only wonder being produced at this time.
Start moving troops down towards the Ottoman border.
IBT - Quite a few more Ottoman troops show up outside Dharan. 4 archers, 2 warriors and 2 horsemen.
Romans are building Sun Tzu's in Neapolis.
2. 130BC
Kufah builds worker, starts horseman.
I politely ask for the Ottomans to step off of our turf. Osman responds by throwing down the gauntlet. We are now at war with the Ottomans.
Our populace is happier now
4/4 horseman retreats from 4/4 warrior, leaving him at 3/4.
4/4 horseman loses to 3/3 warrior, promotes him to 3/4.
3/3 swordsman kills 3/3 archer, at 2/3.
Still moving troops south.
Establish embassy with Rome for 47 gold.
Picture of Rome
Their capital is size 4, and producing 11 spt. Their slider is at 4/6/0. Currently in a Monarchy. Building settler, due in 2.
The only buildings in their capital are the Palace and The Great Library.
They have Wines and Incense hooked up, but no horses or iron.
Producing 8 culture/turn, with 304 right now.
Find out that Rome won't accept a MA against the Ottomans. Apparently we had shabby dealings with the Ottomans in the past, and Rome is holding that against us
I sign a ROP with Rome, so at least if they do ally against us, they'll take a rep hit. Their attitude moves from Annoyed to Cautious.
While moving swordsmen around, I notice that Spain has a pair of archers near us. They may be heading for Carthage, but probably not. Spain is polite.
I establish an embassy with Carthage to see if they'll join us.
Picture of Carthage
Carthage has 3 luxes plus a source of iron and horses attached. Size 2, producing 3spt. Building Library, due in 14. Currently in Despotism.
Carthage won't ally with us either. Apparently a treaty with us isn't worth the paper it's written upon.
We pay get dogpiled here, as we can't sign any up against the Ottomans, and they can pay the world to take us out.
I don't sign a ROP with Carthage, as they have settlers skirting our territory, and I don't want to make it easier for them to settle.
Pucker factor is currently 9 as I hit enter.
IBT - 3 Spanish archers and a swordsman are on our border.
A Carthage swordsman and archer also look like they want to come play.
More otto troops arrive
Barb horseman appears near Antioch, will sack it next turn.
Egypt is building Sun Tzu's in Thebes.
3. - 110BC
Makkah completes settler, starts horseman.
Damascus completes horseman, starts pikeman.
Riyadh completes horseman, starts pikeman.
Dahran completes temple, starts pikeman.
Najran completes temple, starts walls.
Basra riots.
Ottomans have 2 horsemen, 4 archers and 2 warriors near Dhahran. Currently being guarded by 2 4/4 swordsmen and a 1/4 horseman.
4/4 sword attacks 3/3 horseman, wins, still 4/4
Shuffling troops around to deal with possible attacks up north. Notice a Persian archer heading our way.
256 gold, we'll lose some IBT, so I spend what I can rushing.
64 gold rushing barracks in Alexmanistan.
84 gold rushing pikeman in Jeddah.
56 gold rushing pikeman in Madinah.
52 gold, +26 gpt
IBT -
Ottoman 3/3 archer loses to 4/4 swordsman, 2/4 left
Ottoman 3/3 archer loses to 4/4 swordsman, 1/4 left, promotes.
Ottoman 3/3 archer kills 2/4 swordsman, 3/3 left.
Antioch sacked by Cuman tribe, steal 2 gold.
Several more Spanish archers/swordsmen show up.
4. - 90BC
Madinah completes pikeman, starts pikeman.
Baghdad completes horseman, starts horseman.
Jeddah complete pikeman, starts pikeman.
Basra completes temple, starts walls.
Alexmanistan completes barracks, starts pikeman.
4/4 horseman kills 3/3 archer, 2/4 left.
4/4 swordsman kills 3/3 spearman, 4/4 left.
Anjar founded, starts spearman.
IBT - 4/4 horseman loses to 5/5 horseman, 4/5 left.
2/5 swordsman loses to 3/3 archer, promotes, 3/4 left.
Egypt is building the Hanging Gardens in Giza.
5. - 70BC
4/4 swordsman loses to 4/4 warrior, 3/4 left
4/4 swordsman causes 4/5 horseman to retreat, 4/4 left.
Manage to get a Pikeman to Dhahran, so it should be fine.
Movement
IBT - Spain offers her WM in exchange for our WM and Feudalism. I show her the door.
Indians are building the Hanging Gardens in Delhi.
4/4 swordsman causes 3/3 horseman to retreat, 4/4 left.
4/4 horseman wins to 3/3 archer, 2/4 left.
6. - 50BC
Makkah completes horseman, starts azap.
Diriyah completes horseman, starts horseman.
Dharhan completes pikeman, starts horseman.
Pillage Ottoman horses.
3/3 sword kills 3/3 spear, promotes, 4/4 left.
4/4 sword kills 1/3 horse, 4/4 left.
4 Spanish archers, a swordsman and a spear/settler combo are on our western border. I don't know if they're debating joining this war, or if they are just barb hunting.
IBT - Ottomans sign MA with the Zulu against us.
Zulu are building Sun Tzu's.
2/4 horseman wins against 3/4 warrior, 1/4 left.
Persia signs MA with Zulu against us.
3/3 persian archer commits suicide against the walls of Snagha.
Antioch ransacked by barbs, lose 5 gold.
7. - 30BC
Damascus builds pikeman, starts pikeman.
Antioch finally builds warrior, starts temple.
Ottomans still won't talk.
4/4 sword dies to 3/3 spear, 2/3 left
3/3 sword kills 2/3 spear, 2/3 left
4/4 horse kills 3/3 warrior, 3/4 left
IBT - lots of movement, but no attacks. Ottomans have a lot of reinforcements show up.
8. - 10BC
Madinah completes pikeman, starts pikeman.
Baghdad completes horseman, starts pikeman.
4/4 sword kills 3/3 spear, 4/4 left
4/4 horse kills 3/3 spear, 2/4 left
Edrine autorazed
2/3 sword dies to 2/5 horse
4/4 sword kills 4/4 impi, 1/4 left
Ottomans will talk, but will only accept a straight up peace. I'd like to at least take Uskudar before accepting peace. They are up Monotheism and Monarchy. I'll see if I can do a gpt trade for Monotheism, as you can do them during peace negotiations.
IBT - Pucker factor heads back to 9, as Spanish archers wander through our core. I can't tell her to get out, as we can't affor another civ jumping on the pile.
9. - 10AD
Complete trade link with Carthage and Egypt. Neither has any luxes available, however Egypt needs iron and spices. We can't trade them however, as our rep is shot
Carthage needs spices and silks, but again, we can't trade them.
Rush azap in Dharhran for 88 gold.
IBT - 4/4 pikeman wins against 4/4 warrior, 4/4 left.
Movement all over the place.
Indians building Sun Tzu's in Madras.
10. - 30AD
Makkah completes azap, starts azap
Dharhan completes azap, starts azap
4/4 azap kills 3/3 archer, 4/4 left.
Move some units toward Uskudar
There are several workers and the azap in Makkah that have moves left. I'll let the next player decide how to use them.
There is a settler/spear pair northeast of Basra with moves left. I was going to move them to the iron, but the Spanish stole it from under our feet. There are barb nearby, and Spanish and French settler pairs.
Research is currently at 31 turns remaining to Monotheism. If we don't get it for peace with the Ottomans, then we should turn that up, as by the time the 70 turns at min research complete, we'll be facing muskets with our ansars.
We're at 104 gold, +39gpt. 9/0/1
Here is our land:
Arabian holdings
The save
I apologize for the sorry state of affairs that our land is in. I think things could've been better if the Ottomans hadn't decided that they wanted to scrumm. They seem to be wholely concerned with taking Dharhran, so it's been easier than I thought. I've only seen 2 persian archers, 1 zulu warrior and 1 zulu impi, so they haven't been much of a threat.
ATTENTION -- Looking at the picture, I just noticed that I hadn't moved a horseman near Persia. He is fortified, and there is a Persian archer next to him. You will want to wake him up this turn, and attack the archer.
Email10
Swedish Viking
[LURK]
The scientific traits have been removed for most of the AI civs in the latest GotM:s because of differences in versions. I think in Civ 1.29f the scientific civ always get Monotheism upon entering MA, while in PTW it can get any of the 3 techs Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering (could be wrong here, but the reasoning was at least close to this
). This is of course a great advantage for the PTW players and therefor the scientific trait was exchanged, mostly to Expansionist I think (did you see any Persian scouts by any chance? )[/LURK]
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
denyd (UP NOW)
DaveShack (Ondeck)
TedJackson
jimmydean
Bummer about the Rep and no MA thing but that happens...probably more often than not in SG games.
I've been thinking about rep a bit. I'm wondering if it's possible to get your rep back. Try getting loans from civs who can afford it, whenever you can afford the gpt payments and aren't going to be attacking. Loans have higher interest if you break a deal. I've wondered if it's like a RL bank that will give you a high interest loan with bad credit, and give you a better rate if you continue to make payments in good faith. You could try this.
I have no idea how to get your MA ability back though.
DaveShack (Ondeck)
TedJackson
jimmydean
Bummer about the Rep and no MA thing but that happens...probably more often than not in SG games.
I've been thinking about rep a bit. I'm wondering if it's possible to get your rep back. Try getting loans from civs who can afford it, whenever you can afford the gpt payments and aren't going to be attacking. Loans have higher interest if you break a deal. I've wondered if it's like a RL bank that will give you a high interest loan with bad credit, and give you a better rate if you continue to make payments in good faith. You could try this.
I have no idea how to get your MA ability back though.
denyd
Emperor
OK, I got it...this should be fun...
Initial thoughts, take Urskador and get peace and hopefully Monotheism from Ottoman, kill off last Persian city, push science to limit to get Chivalry and move some defensive troops to SW just in case Zulu send more troops our way, keep building veteran horses for future upgrades.
I'll put some more thought into this and check back at lunch. I'll being playing tonight and probably done by 8pm PDT, if you want to check for the save and results.
Initial thoughts, take Urskador and get peace and hopefully Monotheism from Ottoman, kill off last Persian city, push science to limit to get Chivalry and move some defensive troops to SW just in case Zulu send more troops our way, keep building veteran horses for future upgrades.
I'll put some more thought into this and check back at lunch. I'll being playing tonight and probably done by 8pm PDT, if you want to check for the save and results.
denyd
Emperor
After reviewing the situation a little more...a few more random thoughts
I'll check the available troops in the Dhahran vicinity and if there's enough to protect the city and have a couple left, I'll send them to take (probably autoraze) Konya. Hopefully, the Ottoman will then include Monotheism in a peace agreement. I'll also collect the available northern troops and add Gordium to our city list (good-bye X-man). If it looks like I'll be leveling Konya, I'll switch Mekkah to building a settler to claim that spot. If Monotheism is part of the peace package, I'll go for Cilvalry at the most we can afford. I'll also keep checking with the Zulu for peace.
If I'm correct we're at war with Ottoman, Zulu and Persia only. I'll try to end my 10 with peace all around. That may be changed if Spain gets pushy. They're still pretty small and a tempting target. I hoping Spain has Monotheism, I case we can't get it from the Ottoman (another reason to target them). Not sure where to go with that settler, maybe to the northern shore or possibly to the oasis to the east. If I can get peace a couple more settler/pikeman combo's are in order as there's still a little room to the NE and there is still some unclaimed ivory in southern India.
Any other suggestions?
I'll play early tonight and should have the save posted by 9pm PDT.
I'll check the available troops in the Dhahran vicinity and if there's enough to protect the city and have a couple left, I'll send them to take (probably autoraze) Konya. Hopefully, the Ottoman will then include Monotheism in a peace agreement. I'll also collect the available northern troops and add Gordium to our city list (good-bye X-man). If it looks like I'll be leveling Konya, I'll switch Mekkah to building a settler to claim that spot. If Monotheism is part of the peace package, I'll go for Cilvalry at the most we can afford. I'll also keep checking with the Zulu for peace.
If I'm correct we're at war with Ottoman, Zulu and Persia only. I'll try to end my 10 with peace all around. That may be changed if Spain gets pushy. They're still pretty small and a tempting target. I hoping Spain has Monotheism, I case we can't get it from the Ottoman (another reason to target them). Not sure where to go with that settler, maybe to the northern shore or possibly to the oasis to the east. If I can get peace a couple more settler/pikeman combo's are in order as there's still a little room to the NE and there is still some unclaimed ivory in southern India.
Any other suggestions?
I'll play early tonight and should have the save posted by 9pm PDT.
