Dune Wars Humble Fan Patch

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Thanks for that LeBashar, I'll implement it in the next patch as well.

Some things are still for experiment. It will be better if one can get feedback from different playstyles.

Btw, Addict Ecaz mission is missing a line of code in the uploaded patch. Better not use it. Its just a minor slip up on my part, not a bug.

My thoughts right now in relation to the changes:

-Harkonnen factory pretty strong. I just implemented deliverator's draft of it but Teocracy + new factory + whipping creates HUGE amounts of overflow (like 70 -100 hammers in epic speed I was getting pretty consistently). Not sure about this build as it stands.
-Death missile new tech reqs seem ok. Made it too expensive.
-Made Stoneburner a little too expensive. I forgot that one of the points of such units is also to allow low production cities to help the war.
-Still not sure about sonic tank.
-Tleilax copying: may block promos like homeground from being gained, not sure. Need to block copying from hornets, although that is unlikely.
I don't think this can help make a large amount of units be very strong. Its just a fun thing. I may only allow copying from other melee or guardsman; copying rapid fire is cute, but i'm not sure about that. Maybe i'll leave copying such promos for fun, otherwise there's less point to such mechanic.
-The +1 commerce to merchant in all cities from the Mahagony Monument should probably be removed.
-Space trading center commerce bonus: still not sure.
-BG new builds need tweaks.
-Espionage mission costs not there yet.
-Thinking machines spread factor should be back to original, wasn't thinking well about this.
-Vehicles rock bonus: probably remove. The problem also with vehicles is that buffs to them make Ix stronger. I was thinking that allowing a promo similar to "Ixian" to vehicles would be enough for me to build more of them, but units with "Ixian" should not be able to get it. Something like "Flanking III": +1 FS chance, +10 withdrawal. That should be balanced and just a little something more.
 
I have forgot, don't know if you can but, is it possible to delete the "advanced start" option when we create a new game ? because choose this make the game crash.
 
Sure, one can just turn the <bVisible>1</bVisible> to zero for GAMEOPTION_ADVANCED_START at CIV4GameOptionInfos.xml and the option will simply not appear and that's it.
 
keldath said:
very nice, keep it up :)
Click to expand...

Oh, I was going to reply to the previous message but you changed it.

I actually wonder if this thread is now becoming useless with you making another dune wars version. Any interest in this "sub-version" will be lower, of course.
To not be misunderstood, low interest or not from strangers do not affect me, I'm really happy about the state of my modifications on my computer (more advanced than in the uploaded patch and no new bugs so far!) and I had more fun than expected in something that's completely outside of my area of expertise, but I wonder if there's a point to it here in the forum.

Now that 90% of it is finished and the work feels solid, I don't really feel like tediously checking all the files I changed (a few!) again and make a proper new patch out of them.
To digress a little, this work made by a experienced coder would probably be accomplished rather quickly, but regarding everything that I changed/added I had to go there and then and learn somehow.
For example, I wanted an ecaz building that gets X extra commerce from X number of exported bonuses only. That's not in the regular mechanics and I don't think any other mod has such a building (it's kinda weird actually, lol). Making it possible is actually very simple once you know what to do but the time spent to figure that simplicity out really tested my patience. I tried various versions of code until I created, with my ignorance, an efficient one (I was first trying to use "for i in range" to count the bonuses, which was a really really dumb try...).
I wanted to make certain Tleilax units shapeshift after defeating certain stronger units. Easy easy. Converting a unit in python is simple, only a couple of code lines. But here's the thing: the unit must be converted somewhere. So, in the winner or loser's tile? In the winner, one avoids any problem whatsoever, except it looks weird conquering a city and ending up outside of it... Always in the loser's tile, it cannot be, as the enemy units would jump from the tile. So, it has to be coded that it converts in some conditions in the winner's plot and in others in the loser's plot. Just count the units, right? If there's only one left to attack it can convert in the loser's plot and that's it. Then - bam! - it hit me, how about the workers?! Oh, sh*t, now what? Just using pPlot.getNumUnits() is not enough. I almost literally banged my head senselessly on the keyboard, as I just could not, for my life, figure out how to do it correctly in a concise way. It's freaking hilarious when an ignorant person insists on trying to do something that they do not know how to do. It's stupid really but I'm stubborn: "You piece of 'bleep' program, no 'bleep'ing way you're gonna stand there laughing at me! My 'bleep'ing middle finger, I'll show you soon." - More fatal than stupid is being close to mad... So, what probably someone like keldath knows instinctively how to do, I took a while to figure out, which was, of course, making the program do a specific count of specific units, which I thought at first would take a giant freak block of a code, but nope: just a few lines and it's done and now there's no situation where the units will not convert in the expected plot. 1 melee, 2 workers, 1 spy in the plot?: no problem, conversion, worker capture, and spy doesn't matter. All good.
I understand now that proper modding is not just having an idea and coding it. But having an idea that fits, that works inside the program's limitations, that doesn't cripple the AI, that works properly in general situations and in rare ones: its quite the time wasting. Indeed, the above is just an example: plenty of times, I made this work, only to hit me or find out that in this very specific situation this problem or unintended result could or happens. And one goes back to it. And again and again and again.
I have much more respect now for circunspect programmers trying for true balanced gameplay, for it can really be a great amount of effort and ideas can and have be reworked and reworked and reworked.
The amount of effort that I put on this little thing was more than the casual viewer can expect or even imagine actually; and trying this was really really really really dumb on my part, but it was fun anyway.

And that's that.
 
hehe :)
im like you man, i can mod xml, i can merge stuf, python and sdk, but up to a limit.

i banged my head so much over the years cause of civ modding... so get used to it - its a [art of modding.


i changed my post since, i dont want to obligate my self nor bug others with it, i prefer to work in my own rhythm and after i finish something im satisfied with, publish it under this thread as an alternative version, which im pretty sure wont be as good as the current one :)

anyway, im here for help and stuff.

cheers,
kel.
 
@Horatius : this is exactly why I previously said "Maybe there is a little too much for avoid balance feedback which will take many time to notice" ;)

But did we must understand you will not make a release of your patch ?
 
Horatius said:
Now that 90% of it is finished and the work feels solid, I don't really feel like tediously checking all the files I changed (a few!) again and make a proper new patch out of them.
Click to expand...

It seems you have put a lot of work into this and there are lots of interesting changes so it would be a shame not to share the result of your efforts.

If you don't want to put together a patch you could just zip and upload your entire Dune Wars mod directory, and then someone else can use a comparison tool to make a patch.
 
Horatius said:
Oh, I was going to reply to the previous message but you changed it.

I actually wonder if this thread is now becoming useless with you making another dune wars version. Any interest in this "sub-version" will be lower, of course.
To not be misunderstood, low interest or not from strangers do not affect me, I'm really happy about the state of my modifications on my computer (more advanced than in the uploaded patch and no new bugs so far!) and I had more fun than expected in something that's completely outside of my area of expertise, but I wonder if there's a point to it here in the forum.

Now that 90% of it is finished and the work feels solid, I don't really feel like tediously checking all the files I changed (a few!) again and make a proper new patch out of them.
To digress a little, this work made by a experienced coder would probably be accomplished rather quickly, but regarding everything that I changed/added I had to go there and then and learn somehow.
For example, I wanted an ecaz building that gets X extra commerce from X number of exported bonuses only. That's not in the regular mechanics and I don't think any other mod has such a building (it's kinda weird actually, lol). Making it possible is actually very simple once you know what to do but the time spent to figure that simplicity out really tested my patience. I tried various versions of code until I created, with my ignorance, an efficient one (I was first trying to use "for i in range" to count the bonuses, which was a really really dumb try...).
I wanted to make certain Tleilax units shapeshift after defeating certain stronger units. Easy easy. Converting a unit in python is simple, only a couple of code lines. But here's the thing: the unit must be converted somewhere. So, in the winner or loser's tile? In the winner, one avoids any problem whatsoever, except it looks weird conquering a city and ending up outside of it... Always in the loser's tile, it cannot be, as the enemy units would jump from the tile. So, it has to be coded that it converts in some conditions in the winner's plot and in others in the loser's plot. Just count the units, right? If there's only one left to attack it can convert in the loser's plot and that's it. Then - bam! - it hit me, how about the workers?! Oh, sh*t, now what? Just using pPlot.getNumUnits() is not enough. I almost literally banged my head senselessly on the keyboard, as I just could not, for my life, figure out how to do it correctly in a concise way. It's freaking hilarious when an ignorant person insists on trying to do something that they do not know how to do. It's stupid really but I'm stubborn: "You piece of 'bleep' program, no 'bleep'ing way you're gonna stand there laughing at me! My 'bleep'ing middle finger, I'll show you soon." - More fatal than stupid is being close to mad... So, what probably someone like keldath knows instinctively how to do, I took a while to figure out, which was, of course, making the program do a specific count of specific units, which I thought at first would take a giant freak block of a code, but nope: just a few lines and it's done and now there's no situation where the units will not convert in the expected plot. 1 melee, 2 workers, 1 spy in the plot?: no problem, conversion, worker capture, and spy doesn't matter. All good.
I understand now that proper modding is not just having an idea and coding it. But having an idea that fits, that works inside the program's limitations, that doesn't cripple the AI, that works properly in general situations and in rare ones: its quite the time wasting. Indeed, the above is just an example: plenty of times, I made this work, only to hit me or find out that in this very specific situation this problem or unintended result could or happens. And one goes back to it. And again and again and again.
I have much more respect now for circunspect programmers trying for true balanced gameplay, for it can really be a great amount of effort and ideas can and have be reworked and reworked and reworked.
The amount of effort that I put on this little thing was more than the casual viewer can expect or even imagine actually; and trying this was really really really really dumb on my part, but it was fun anyway.

And that's that.
Click to expand...


#1. Did u change the DLL?
#2. Did u add any Art?
#3. Did u add any music?

If not, then make a copy of the entire assets folder, delete the DLL, Art files, Music files, and compress into a .rar file

It becomes quite a small file by that time, that it might even be able to be uploaded within the post :)

--------------------

Trying this definitely wasn't dumb though ...

Stubborn, perhaps, but not dumb ;)

---> Is learning a craft incredibly inefficient without the proper guidance? Yes, usually ... but not to say that doing so is without merit, for it is part of the proof that failure is only a temporary state of being.
 
>_<

Son, I am dissapoint
 
oO What's wrong with you horatius ?

Even if you don't want pursue your work, don't you think it could be interesting for someone else to let this available ???

Do you want also I (or others) delete the file I have saved (unintended) in my computer ?

I found this is absolutely dumb. What a waste...
 
Yeah, what the hell is this about?

The patches you've have uploaded so far were quality work that could easily have been a springboard for further work by someone else.
Nobody have said anything bad about your effort. Quite the contrary.
You could easily have walked away and still have contributed quite meaningfully to the project, instead of going on a "delete everything" spree.

That is, unless you plan to release a bundled up version of what you've achieved so far. But just taking everything down and leaving is pointless. You put in a lot of good work in this.

(Also, If i read the forum policies for the Civfanatics mod forums, it is perfectly acceptable for someone else to reupload Horatius' stuff. Part of the agreement you enter when you upload something here is that you cannot prevent others from making use of it.)
 
Moderator Action: Closed after OP request.

If someone wishes to continue this project, I suggest starting a new thread for it.
 
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