R.E.D. WWII: Concepts & Suggestions

Can anyone help me with my problem please? :confused:
 
Thanks for making this Gedemon! I love it! It's now my favorite Civ 5 mod.:)

I played as France on deity and lost Paris in April, 1940. I noticed the Fall of France event makes you lose all of your units though, except for those inside the French city in North Africa and the French city in Syria. I also lost all my navy except 1 submarine. The submarine couldn't move or do anything though and I think that is what caused the game to basically freeze up. The turn couldn't end because of it. I could still move the camera around, exit the game and all though. I'll reload an autosave, which unfortunately is 8 turns back and those 8 turns took a while. What I plan to do this time though is before Paris falls I'll delete all my units except those in the French cities I listed so that way Vichy France won't get all my stuff. Also, I took all but one city in Libya as France before Paris fell and lost all those. I'm sure that's intentional though.

Is there any way though to prevent loosing all my units and navy or should I just delete them all before Paris falls (Except for those in the 2 French cities I listed)?

Here are the issues I have.

-No workers and not many improvements already made. I know this might be intentional, but I still think it should be changed. Not being able to build railroads/upgrade roads to railroad and not being able to make your cities better by making improvements really hurts.

-Large and/or important nations being minor nations. The minor nations don't seem to act nearly as smart as the regular nations and having nations like Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, etc as minor nations just doesn't feel right to me.

-I noticed city growth is impossible, so I ended up changing all my cities to production focus and that helped out a bit. I recommend making all cities in the game automatically production focused.

-Germany seemed to be beating the British navy. The combination of the German air force and navy was pretty overwhelming.

-Britain didn't land any units to help me defend France. I know it's just the Civ 5 AI being dumb, but it would be nice if they could help some.

-The civs ask me to declare war before the wars historically start. I know I can just say no, but just something to note. For example a few turns before I had to enter war with Germany, the UK asked me to go to war with Germany. I declined because I figured I should let it happen at the historical time and also because I was still moving my units around. Later in 1939 though, the UK asked me to go to war with Italy. I accepted not knowing then that that wasn't the historical time Italy entered the war. So I guess I should have just told the UK no and waited for Italy to enter the war in June 1940. Italy caused some major problems for me in mainland France and even took control of Nice.

-Some other weird diplomatic things, like the USSR denouncing me. I'm not sure if my denouncing Italy (I denounce Germany automatically soon before I enter war with em) would affect anything, but I did it anyways.:)

-When Vichy France was created Italy still controlled Nice which they took from me in war. Not sure if that was intentional or not.
 
You can do this with all sorts of units, I just do not like so many special units that really were not Division level units. Also the AI has trouble using units that are special types. The AI would do better with a limited set of units that can cover most activities. Even then the AI has trouble with the idea that tanks are not city takers, well medium and heavy tanks anyway.
You're right about the AI, I hope we can do something about that, we'll see.

About the scale, you're also right, but on this map size we should have armies composed of multiple units/tiles, not divisions anyway. I would love that, but it's not doable. Not with my spare time I mean.

I also find artillery to be next to useless for me. I move at a quick pace and of course I use airplanes for my artillery and use infantry and armour as need to quickly eliminate my opposition. Hmm, sounds like a certain General who suggested the same thing. I do think Artillery is more useful on defense keeping it in the city to range fire on the enemy, but just to easy for tanks to kill. Having said that the dynamic of Artillery vs tanks vs Infantry would be better if artillery got a bonus shooting at Infantry, but at is they are not good at killing anything and good at getting killed.
I can't remember how it was in v.9, but in V.10 arty should have +50% against cities and +15 or 25 against infantry, don't remember exactly, should improve it use a bit (more on that later)

I look at units like rock, paper, scissors game. If a unit exists it should serve a purpose and be the best at that.
Totally agree, that's what I'm trying to do. And the more units added, the bigger the difficulty to keep things balanced and fun to play (and understandable for the AI).

So it's another point for you, but you already know that I will try it anyway, don't you ? :D

Artillery is good at nothing but shooting over things and for this they have to setup to shoot. Bombers do this better.
So, with the fighters improved, does the arty become more interesting ?

So when I look at the list of units you want to introduce some of them look like units we already have, eg tank destroyers (just tanks with bonus vs tanks, so faster heavy tanks).
I want Tank Destroyer to be globally good against tanks, but even better when defending. And globally medium/weak on attack. I want the player to use infantry/attack aircraft to take out those.

Personally I like the idea of buffs defining the sub unit of a type then having more actual unit types one can build. I also realize most people like seeing extra unit types on the game board and not as a buff and I can understand the desire to put out the cool units.
I understand the buff thing, and it can be great with unit changing models on promotion type, but I prefer to have the palyer to plan before building the unit, not after. And yes, I'm still like a little boy looking at the christmas tree when I see the list of units made by danrell, I confess :blush:

I do like the French Foreign Legion as a sub type as it is good in enemy territory but does not take ground, so it has a penalty as well. If you introduce a unit it needs to be special from any other type. Having said that I would never build a Foreign Legion as it can not take ground.
Wait for the special forces special promotions, maybe then you''l want to make a few...

Hope this gives you some food for thought.
I does, thanks !

- The city states Romania and Bulgaria declared war on the Axis for being too agressive to city states. For realism reasons I would put them in an alliance with the Axis. Right now they are at war with Russia and the Axis at the same time (I think somebody reported that already).
Yep, it's in the todo (I prefer to make it so they didn't declare wars on warmonger civs than having them as axis power from the start.)

- When I conquered the French colonies in Africa, the Paris fall made them go back to their city states. Is that intened to be like that ?
Yes, I plan to allow the player to chose between accepting the capitulation conditions and continue war.

But not that on France Capitulation, Axis power became friends with France and all it's colony, wich should give a boost on reinforcements production. I may have to balance things on that part (right now occupied cities have a penalty of 50% on reinforcement production until a Courthouse is build, and colonies give you 25% of their global reinforcement production).

I'll have to play with numbers here.

Did you consider adding the US east coast and Oil as a strategic resource in future versions ? Those those (US+oil) were probably two war-deciding factors (I dunno how much work it would be to integrate that tbh) :)
No east cost, but US units are planned, yes. Under player control or with an US AI, we'll see.

And Oil is also planned. Just don't ask when please, 'cause I have absolutly no idea, there's a lot to do.

Germany should take Paris when you end the Italian turn.

Also a screenshot of the result when Germany takes Paris.
Yes, thanx to your save, I think I've an idea of the issue, a fix is planned.

Hi Gedemon. Vr10 Data 2. As Germany, game crashes as soon as I take over Warsaw. Had same issue with Vr9 taking paris. Can this bug be related by the fact that I attack Poland first turn without waiting for time line to put me in war?
Tried this save, and I can't reproduce the crash as with the other saves before a "fall of..." event. I fear this will be difficult to solve, I may add an option menu at setup screen so you can chose to use those events or not.

awesome mod gedemon!! the v.10 version is much more improved than v.8 but there is alot of things missing and i know the mod is far from done but i want to put my ideas out there, and if they had been repeated before..MY BAD..
don't be sorry, but the spreadsheets with units stat in first post should give you an idea of what's planned ;)

1. you should include artillery in the first stages of the war, also include the mobile artillery, their bonuses should be effective in open field/forest and not cities.
Mobile arty won't have to set up before firing, but with a reduced range (ie : 1 tile), they'll have to shoot and go.

2. put anti tank guns/ and mobile tank destroyers in the game, they should have bonuses against tanks and be weak against infantry
no anti-tanks guns planned, but tank destroyer yes. and weak against infantry (at least the first models), yes again

3.assault guns should be included in the mod, they could be effective against cities and fortified positions, like the bison and the bummbard.weak against tanks and infantry.
early models will be like that, later will be good vs tanks (the Soviet models were often used as assault gun or tank destroyer) but still (relatively) weak against infantries.

4. AA guns would be nice as well as mobile so they can keep up with the tanks. also AA guns should be effective against infantry. this include light tanks as well since the light tanks were created to support the infantry not the other way around.
Not planned as a separated unit, but I may include AA guns in Artillery divisions.

5.paratroopers and special forces nuff said...but i notice there some foreign legion not taken territory, so there meant for sabotage and disruption, like destroying a tile but in this version they don't do ..
No, but they will, sabotage, disruption, yes, and not (or not only) of tiles...

6. need engineers so they can repair tiles and built forts.
Not planned. If I there's the possibility of destroying improvement, I'll add an auto-rebuild feature after some turns for the improvement.

7. you should include a system where multiple units can be in one tile, that could help with the congestion and traffic in the map,
Not planned, would love to do armies composed of multiple units mergeable/splittable thus.

lastly wheres that magino line(sorry for the spelling) it was very important during the battle of France.
planned.

I'm facing a similar issue. I'm attacking Warsaw, but haven't captured it yet. When I end my turn, all leaders contact me and game crashes soon after.

I will turn on logging and see what the error is.

Thank you for the log, but I'm sorry to say that there's nothing that can help me to figure what's happening here

Oh finally the new version \o/

I gave it a try as germany(on deity) and what I first notice is that you might have made the german navy too strong compared to the british one. I had no problem controlling the channel and surrounding London with my troops. Then there was some bug with attacking the city though (probably something with supply lines cut, but I don't seem them cut?).

I made a screenshot of the situation:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/londont.jpg/

Yeah, I'll have to rebalance the fleets maybe.

About your screen, you're going to send out-of-fuel tanks to take a city passing across a river ? That's a bad idea, that 108% penalty is well earned :D

Ok it's maybe a bit too much, but here you have -50% for crossing river, -33% base penalty against city for tanks and -25% when attacking (unit or in this case city) because supply line is cut.


Seems fast bombers are the way to go now, given the only penalty is vs subs and everything else is a bonus, even avoiding interception. The 2 less range then medium bombers is no big deal. Maybe remove the bonus vs City for those fast bombers and put it on the Medium (slow) bombers instead.
Right, removing city promo for fast bombers is in the todo.

The AI never uses the air sweep mission, so as a result bombers are now getting cut up by interception. The improved interception is welcome, but we might need to find away for the AI to clear interceptors with air sweeps. Given each fighter can only do one air sweep vs two interceptions, it will take a bigger air force to remove enough interceptors to prevent bomber interception.
and using something like what have been done for interception is also in the todo :D

Ok I reloaded a auto save with the intention to figure out the Warsaw crash. Instead Warsaw fell before Paris and no crash, so I really have no idea why it would have crashed.
Me neither :(
 
Can anyone help me with my problem please? :confused:
What do you have in your mod folder ?

Thanks for making this Gedemon! I love it!:)

I played as France on deity and lost Paris in April, 1940. I noticed it makes you lose all of your units though, except for those inside the French city in North Africa and the French city in Syria. I also lost all my navy except 1 submarine. The submarine couldn't move or do anything though and I think that is what caused the game to basically freeze up. The turn couldn't end because of it. I'll reload an autosave, which unfortunately is 8 turns back and those 8 turns took a while. What I plan to do this time though is before Paris falls I'll delete all my units except those in the French cities I listed so that way Vichy France won't get all my stuff. Also, I took all but one city in Libya as France before Paris fell and lost all those. I know that's intentional though.

A few other issues I have.

-No workers and not many improvements already made. I know this might be intentional, but I still think it should be changed in both maps. Not being able to build railroads/upgrade roads to railroad and not being able to make your cities better by making improvements really hurts.

-Large and/or important nations being minor nations. The minor nations don't seem to act nearly as smart as the regular nations and having nations like Canada, Australia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, etc as minor nations just doesn't feel right to me.

-I noticed city growth is impossible, so I ended up changing all my cities to production focus and that helped out a bit. I recommend making all cities in the game production focused.
Strange bug for France.

Here's what's programmed to happen when Paris is capturing : French player lose all metropole cities, almost all France units are re-located in different colonies and Vichy France (that's random, some air unit may even switch to england), the player get some random (and normally it's most experimented) air and land unit to restart, and each fleet unit chose between Free France or Vichy France. (edit : and Free France declare wars on colonies, you may have a first time surprise during reconquest...)

Please save before losing Paris if you can, and try to reproduce the bug if possible so I can test it...

The fixed improvement / cities is wanted, as for population (I may had event to change some population number during the game, but it's far from done)

Remember the war is spread on 5 years, where a normal civ game run on 6000, I don't want the player to be able to change a small city into a new prod center during those 5 years.

But there are 4-5 cities by nation that are made for producing, that you should specialize a bit, and for the other, focusing to production is probably interesting, but the personnel reinforcement process is way more powerful when used in conjunction with food focus.

Edit 2 : About "minor" nations, it's mostly an artistic problem, I'm better at coding than producing art. T_KCommanderbly has done some good art DoM for USA, Japan, China, but we still need to do diplo screen, and it take some times... I would like to keep the "spirit" of the existing art done, but if anyone want to help, please go to the development thread and don't hesitate to propose new civs... if you're ready to take some time for texts, arts, etc...
 
When planes do intercept jobs is the amount of xp they receive based on the damage they do (more experienced planes=more dmg=more xp), or is it a flat amount (which seems to be 1xp?)?


btw, the fix you made to intercepting is working great as far as I see it, Brittish AI is trying to eat my planes alot :D
 
Excellent work Gedemon, I don't understand how you find the time... :goodjob:

Especially love the fact that I can't just bomb my way through the game anymore due to the AI actually intercepting my bombers...

Not sure if you fixed the AI naval either or if its just the "return fire" function that is killing my fleet but its definately far more challenging than earlier versions...

The AI seem to have a major issue detecting and attacking subs though... I feel a bit abusive when I do hit and run with subs atm... other than that the game is working perfectly for me...

Just a bit slow but I can't figure out how to get my smaller european map to work so I will just have to play yours until I can figure it out :)
 
I uploaded a save to mediafire because it was too big to upload here on CFC. I retried playing Paris falling twice (So 3 times in total). The 2nd time I was able to continue on. The third time I had the same issue as the first time. The little bar thing saying please wait (Because units needed to be moved) but I couldn't move them. The last time I actually got to keep most of my naval units, but all times I've only ever gotten 1-2 infantry units and 1 aircraft. I did notice though that after France falls and I end up at war with my former city state allies (The French colonies)... that they gained units and it actually looked like they were my units. The ones I saw were hurt like some of my units and had promotions that some of my units had.

Before I experienced the Fall of France event for the first time I had expected to gain all my city state allies (The French colonies) as my cities, but instead I just end up at war with all of them. Do you plan to keep it like that?

EDIT: Also, I updated my earlier post with more things Gedemon.

http://www.mediafire.com/?8phsxh5hpoc3ia6
 
hey everytime i try playing the game, after the first turn it says "choose production" yet i cant choose anything nor can i delete the post, so thus i cant take my "next turn" im stuck here and its pissing me off since i would really like to enjoy this mod
 
What should happen between 37 and 38 turn (10th and 20th of July, 1940)? What kind of script?
When I choose campaign for USSR, I've got 100% crash that time.
Nevertheless everything is good for Britain.
 
I had another try with Italy. A few turns after the fall of Paris, France offered me 2 cities and 4k gold to make peace. Maybe it´s better to block peace for Italy too.
 
hey everytime i try playing the game, after the first turn it says "choose production" yet i cant choose anything nor can i delete the post, so thus i cant take my "next turn" im stuck here and its pissing me off since i would really like to enjoy this mod

help me please!
 
I tried the version 10, and I want to say you did a very good job gedemon :)
I love to see more units in each new version, the battles on the sea are better now with the emergence of the cruisers and others ships, and it's now a little harder when we play with France so I like it :D.
Now the AI uses the aircraft better, but I think it would be nice if the fighters lost health when they intercepted others aircraft.
- Is it possible to do a map with the diplomacy entirely locked?
- Is it possible to disable the treaty free passage with the neutral city-state too? Because it isn't realistic to see german pass through Switzerland to attack France for example...
 
What I plan to do this time though is before Paris falls I'll delete all my units except those in the French cities I listed so that way Vichy France won't get all my stuff. Also, I took all but one city in Libya as France before Paris fell and lost all those. I'm sure that's intentional though.

Is there any way though to prevent loosing all my units and navy or should I just delete them all before Paris falls (Except for those in the 2 French cities I listed)?

It's intentional. And you can even lose the ones in the two cities that you keep. So you lose almost all your units, but who has said it would be a definitive loss ? :D

I strongly suggest you not to disband all of them...

-No workers and not many improvements already made. I know this might be intentional, but I still think it should be changed. Not being able to build railroads/upgrade roads to railroad and not being able to make your cities better by making improvements really hurts.
If combat engineers units are made, they'll be allowed to fortify a position or to repair a destructed improvement, but not to make more, that's really something I want to keep by design, fixed industry layout. If possible, I'll allow them to upgrade road to railroads.


-Britain didn't land any units to help me defend France. I know it's just the Civ 5 AI being dumb, but it would be nice if they could help some.
Once you're permanantly allied, R.A.F will help you over France sky, and UK heavy bombers will have enough range to bombard a good portion of Germany. But I agree that something must be done for land helping.

-The civs ask me to declare war before the wars historically start.
That's one is a much requested one, I'll add it at some point as an option.

-Some other weird diplomatic things, like the USSR denouncing me. I'm not sure if my denouncing Italy (I denounce Germany automatically soon before I enter war with em) would affect anything, but I did it anyways.:)
I'll have to mess with flavors for that. I hope someone could help with that, I would prefer completely recode diplomacy than having to mess with the flavors setting (figure of speech, recoding diplomacy would take too much time AND will need messing with flavor to start from a clean base).

-When Vichy France was created Italy still controlled Nice which they took from me in war. Not sure if that was intentional or not.
intentional, Italy get the Alps-Maritime department and Corsica on the French armistice.

When planes do intercept jobs is the amount of xp they receive based on the damage they do (more experienced planes=more dmg=more xp), or is it a flat amount (which seems to be 1xp?)?
Flat amount, as for vanilla XP mechanism for other units. May rise it to 2 when interceptor will be able to get damage doing interception. (attacker and defender get 3 xp on air sweep)

Not sure if you fixed the AI naval either or if its just the "return fire" function that is killing my fleet but its definately far more challenging than earlier versions...
I think it's a combination of the return fire mod and the default AI tip from rhettrongun, I've not tried anything with the naval AI yet...

The AI seem to have a major issue detecting and attacking subs though... I feel a bit abusive when I do hit and run with subs atm...
... but now that I know we can play with AI units, that will be my next challenge.

I uploaded a save to mediafire because it was too big to upload here on CFC. I retried playing Paris falling twice (So 3 times in total). The 2nd time I was able to continue on. The third time I had the same issue as the first time. The little bar thing saying please wait (Because units needed to be moved) but I couldn't move them.
Thanx for the save, I'll try it.

The last time I actually got to keep most of my naval units, but all times I've only ever gotten 1-2 infantry units and 1 aircraft. I did notice though that after France falls and I end up at war with my former city state allies (The French colonies)... that they gained units and it actually looked like they were my units. The ones I saw were hurt like some of my units and had promotions that some of my units had.

Before I experienced the Fall of France event for the first time I had expected to gain all my city state allies (The French colonies) as my cities, but instead I just end up at war with all of them. Do you plan to keep it like that?
They not only look like your old units, they actually are.

Spoiler that reveal a fact that is in the changelog already, I post it for those who like little surprises...
Spoiler :
'cause their loyalty is still struggling. Test them. Try light land attacks... Or target the more damaged, but try to not kill them


hey everytime i try playing the game, after the first turn it says "choose production" yet i cant choose anything nor can i delete the post, so thus i cant take my "next turn" im stuck here and its pissing me off since i would really like to enjoy this mod
Can you try to launch a new game with the mod, goes in a city, try to click on production, and post the resulting lua log here ? (see first post for how to get the lua log)

What should happen between 37 and 38 turn (10th and 20th of July, 1940)? What kind of script?
When I choose campaign for USSR, I've got 100% crash that time.
Nevertheless everything is good for Britain.
Do you have a savegame from turn 37 ?

nothing special planned at this time, but the scripted "fall of..." events happens on a city capture, not a specific turn.

- Is it possible to do a map with the diplomacy entirely locked?
yes, look at T_KCommanderbly map (well there's a small bug with the player being able to make peace with CS every time, even when set to permanent war, but I'll fix that, I've done something like that for RFC, I'll just have to re-use it)

- Is it possible to disable the treaty free passage with the neutral city-state too? Because it isn't realistic to see german pass through Switzerland to attack France for example...
I hope, I've something to test since sometime, but I lack of it (time I mean).
 
Do you have a savegame from turn 37 ?

nothing special planned at this time, but the scripted "fall of..." events happens on a city capture, not a specific turn.
I started 3 games.
All 3 were crashed at the same turn... "Fall of Poland & France" ran well.
4th was started for Britain - no crush.

I'll start another game and attached save here.
 
I'm at turn 45 with USSR in my last test game, so if there's something it does not happens every time, I'll have a look at your save if it occurs again, TIA
 
Fall of France works fine for me...however, not sure if this is a bug or not. Playing as Italy: Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco got returned to their previous owner despite me conquering all of it before the fall of france...

Also every turn the game tells me "I'm losing grasp of tunisia"...
 
Fall of France works fine for me...however, not sure if this is a bug or not. Playing as Italy: Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco got returned to their previous owner despite me conquering all of it before the fall of france...

Also every turn the game tells me "I'm losing grasp of tunisia"...

First part is "normal" feature, I just hadn't the time to do a function to allow the player to refuse the armistice conditions...

Second one has already been reported and bother me (well, and you I guess, each turn, must be stressing). Again, a save from the turn before Fall of France could help, I can't remember having this one when playing as Italy.
 
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