Early Archaeology

Aussie_Lurker said:

Personally, I'd love for closed borders to have *some* negative impact on both caravans & missionaries-even if it can't stop them altogether (either that or move Open Borders to an earlier tech ;-) ). Without such a system, then I fear that Open Borders become greatly downgraded. I'd add a similar view in regards to embassies. Embassies should improve the abilities of both Missionaries & Caravans IMHO.

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Open Borders also have an effect on Tourism. So they have an extra relevance they didn't have before.

Open borders are double edge swords.

If you refuse them, your trade routes will appear less lucrative than others, hence less incoming trade routes in general.

On the other hands, if opening, you risk losing antiquity sites, religion domination, tourism influence or science.

You could built scouts and plop them down on antiquity sites within your territory.

TheKingOfBigOz said:

You could built scouts and plop them down on antiquity sites within your territory.

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And the sites outside any culture border, so being first to Archaeology is essential as it seems

Aussie_Lurker said:

Personally, I'd love for closed borders to have *some* negative impact on both caravans & missionaries-even if it can't stop them altogether (either that or move Open Borders to an earlier tech ;-) ). Without such a system, then I fear that Open Borders become greatly downgraded. I'd add a similar view in regards to embassies. Embassies should improve the abilities of both Missionaries & Caravans IMHO.

Aussie.

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I don''t think caravans and cargo ships should have any negative impacts, otherwise, trade routes would be very tedious, unless they move open borders to writing like in Civ IV. On second thought, maybe embassies should be able to allow trade to pass that isn't heading for a Civ in between, and lessen the diplomatic blow of religious conversions? Regardless, I think embassies should be more important as well, maybe even being a requirement for diplomats to be sent to target Civilizations?

Calouste said:

IRL, Archeology of recent times exists and does create artifacts. Just last month, the British lifted what is believed to be the only intact example of a German WWII Dornier bomber from the bottom of the English Channel. It will be restored and displayed in the RAF museum.

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Oh, I'm not discrediting modern archaeology or excavations in any way, I meant in a purely gameplay-wise.

gunnergoz said:

This archaeology thing is a new excuse to play on "raging barbarians" and reap the benefits in a couple thousand years.

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I seem to recall that somewhere in some interview it's been said that there's a limit on how many digging sites you can get on a certain area. So all that you need is to ensure that you get some fights in the early game, but more than that is probably just overkill... literally...

Aussie_Lurker said:

Personally, I'd love for closed borders to have *some* negative impact on both caravans & missionaries-even if it can't stop them altogether (either that or move Open Borders to an earlier tech ;-) ). Without such a system, then I fear that Open Borders become greatly downgraded. I'd add a similar view in regards to embassies. Embassies should improve the abilities of both Missionaries & Caravans IMHO.

Aussie.

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Closed borders already have a negative impact on missionaries. A missionary loses 25% of its strength from attrition for every turn it ends in another civ that you don't have Open Borders with. The best use for missionaries usually is to convert city states, which don't give attrition and don't get annoyed when you convert their cities, and let the religious pressure do the rest.

Calouste said:

Closed borders already have a negative impact on missionaries. A missionary loses 25% of its strength from attrition for every turn it ends in another civ that you don't have Open Borders with. The best use for missionaries usually is to convert city states, which don't give attrition and don't get annoyed when you convert their cities, and let the religious pressure do the rest.

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Ah, I'd forgotten that. Thanks for reminding me. So yes I think there should be something similar with caravans & cargo ships-if only that you don't get as much money/influence/science from them without Open Borders!

Aussie.