SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Yeah, let's send two spies to Stalingrad. The one in Beijing is still just sitting around - I guess we use it in the American campaign later.

@PPP,
Doesn't seem like enough wealth building. I agree w Mitchum, we should be cranking our research as much as possible. In my 14t, we went from 700bpt @ 0% to about 1900bpt right now. We currently have 4500bpt @ 100% with significant money loss. 3GD is an instant 500hpt. The research rate will keep increasing as we get further growth and Sci hires (500-1000bpt? No idea how much). 20 RI's are worth circa 500bpt, as is Free Religion assuming we can afford to run it (with some luck, T+13 5-GP done, we do have some turns for it). In short, it seems to me like >6000bpt @ 100% is quite doable in the very end.

We need some marines to take Stalingrad. Indian vets can take Washington and/or Philly, Old Russian vets hit Seattle, and another stack NYC and Xian. Worst case scenario, we switch to Police State and Slavery on the turn we launch and insta-whip 30 tanks.

How many workers do we need? I started moving more into old England. Coventry's tiles might just flip to Sushi culture in Canterbury, York and Nottingham, saving us some trouble. We need more in the Siberia/Kamchatka area and the northern island. And def. some in the eastern islands - the Bcool island workers are basically done their work there and can move. India needs some for sure. Lahore has 6-7 FWs around. I was hoping to capture those in the next few turns. Maybe we should count up the worker turns required in each area and divide by 30-ish turns - see where we stand. I'll see if I can do that tonight.

Infrastructure: what's the payoff at this point? Take University: 200h = 200g = circa 200b, which is 133 Sci-turns. So, if a city like Nanjing builds one at T+9, we're not getting the cash back.
 
The research times are based on current times. I'm fine re-arranging some of the marine builds to wealth instead, as it will take roughly 2-3 turns after genetics (even with good overflow) to launch (for a total of 12-13 turns) to clean anything up.

The forges will pay off if research drags on. I'm not convinced that we can finish research in 18 turns... I'll try doing the math again.

The earliest that the Ducks could have finished is turn 261, with a turn 250 launch. So let's see if we can finish everything in 20 turns.

How long does it take to scrub a fallout tile assuming normal game speed on flatland? 6 turns?

edit: in case you guys were wondering, I was estimating payouts with 40turns to go... didn't realize we're on a bit of a squeeze in turns.
 
I think that scrubbing = 4t grass/plains ; 5t tundra. Edit: you also lose a turn moving onto it, ofc. Better to do it with single workers than double (though I've been a bit lazy with this, I'll admit)
 
updated the gpp spreadsheet with current gpp points.

There might be some other options for a GE/GSpy/GProphet if we pump up Beijing. Might build a industrial park and run more engineers. Industrial park adds up to 3 engineers ( 1 free plus 2 slots for 2 more)

That is also an option to accelerate, Bahamas or Bermuda as well.
 

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At some point in the near future, spreading corporations is no longer going to make sense. It takes hammers to build the executive that could be converted to wealth instead and gold to spread that could otherwise be used to crank up the slider. Does anyone have an idea of when we should stop spreading each corporation (assuming its a different answer for each)?
 
Good point. Spreading Mining Inc. costs 100h + 75-80g = 180g. Mining's bringing in 20hpt right now, plus a few more later. That means building wealth breaks even in only 8-9t. Sushi's even slower. I'm not sure what the cut-off should be. TBH, new cities at this point are mainly for hooking up further resources. Don't think they'll contribute much.
 
Just for kicks, I converted all of our cities to wealth (more or less). We can hit 4457 bpt with -59 gpt or something in that vicinity. The downside is that most of our cities really won't increase their beaker count because they are running mostly specialists... With our enhanced beaker count, that's 18 turns of research...


I am more or less convinced right now that we can crush Roosevelt and scrub all of the remaining fallout in 10 turns if we have Cristo (or are in a GA) to revolt into slavery + police state. We just have to mercilessly whip marines, tanks, boats, and workers. We don't need to conquer him - just break his sod and land marine + worker pairs on the remaining 30 or so fallout tiles in his territory. We can clean up the other fallout in the time it takes to finish the research tree (with maybe a few extra workers near the Siberia fallout).
 
That's not right. We still have 99000b left, which is an average of 5500bpt over 18t. I do think we have to have a closer look at non-essential builds, though. Take Mitchum's Oasis as an example:
Base hpt = 32 (after the last workshop is done)
Forge = 120h = 5t build + 2t CH
Forge benefit = 8hpt = 15t break even
Factory = 250h = 8t build + 2t CH
Factory benefit (after 3GD) = 24hpt = 11t break even
So, we need 21t total for Factory to break even, or 22t for Forge.
Library = 45h (including CRE discount)
Library benefit = 10.75bpt (100%) / 7.62bpt (50%)
With Sushi, we'll grow 1 Sci per turn for a while, though, adding 1.5bpt per turn. Over 14t after Library completes, that gives an average Library benefit of approximately 20bpt, for a total payoff around 280b (100%) / 238bpt (50%) - easily worthwhile. Our gold:beaker ratio is approximately 1.1:1 right now, with further cost increases to come, btw.
 
I'm too lazy to count in game now:
Here's the fallout count:

Island NE of Seattle: 3 tiles, 2 on tundra.
Near Chicago: 8 tiles, 5 on tundra
Near Boston: 8 tiles
Near Washington: 2 tiles
Near Philadelphia: 2 tiles
Near US-Russia border: 7 tiles
Near Hangzhou: 4 tiles
America: approx. 177 worker-turns = 18-20 workers over 10t
Uranium island SE of Stalin: 6 tiles This island now belongs to Roosevelt. :mad: approx. 30 worker-turns = 3-4 workers over 10t
-------------------------
Near Delhi: 11 tiles
Near Varanasi: 12 tiles (3 in Indian territory), 4 on desert
Near Lahore: 13 tiles, 6 on tundra
India: approx. 190 worker-turns = 8 workers over 25t
-------------------------
Island east of London: 3 tiles, all tundra approx. 18 worker-turns = 1 worker from about T+10
Near Stalingrad: 1 tundra
Southern Stalin island: 4 tiles
Old Russia:26 worker-turns + galleon transport = 2 workers over 13t
Two islands east of Iron Spice: 3 tiles, 2 tundra
Iron Spice / Coal Island:17 worker-turns = 1 worker - already on Galleon at Iron Spice
Island north of Yaroslav: 3 tiles, 1 tundra
Island east of Siberia: 6 tiles, 5 tundra
North Islands:51 worker-turns + transport = 2 workers over 26-27t, more likely 3 workers

China:There is one fallout tile east of Shanghai

Fog island: 4 tundra tiles
Fog:Which one is this? south of Coal/crab? We still need some fogbusting, ofc

There's more fallout near Kamchatka and Coventry but I haven't counted them since it looks like we have enough workers to clean them up already. Let me know if I need to count them.
Kamchatka: IIRC, there are 10 tiles north + 2 tiles south = approx. 75 worker-turns = 3 workers over 25t
This is missing all of old England, but we should be done with that fairly quickly. I wonder if we'll need to attack Coventry, or if tile-flipping will be enough.

Edit: so, conservatively, we'll need 18 workers on scrub duty for the areas listed, not including America. We'll also need some semipermanently employed in old England scrubbing and improving tiles - I think we already have more than enough there. America will require a further 20-25 workers over the SS flight turns, though we could probably shift some resources by then, or even just build 20 workers after launch.
 
I think it is wise to crush roosy after the spaceship launch and to make that slightly easier without devoting significant resources to military builds before the launch, we can send in 3-4 newly built spies to inspire city revolts when the time is right. And/or blow up his resources like horses if he gets military tradition.
 
Just for kicks, I converted all of our cities to wealth (more or less). We can hit 4457 bpt with -59 gpt or something in that vicinity. The downside is that most of our cities really won't increase their beaker count because they are running mostly specialists... With our enhanced beaker count, that's 18 turns of research...

I just did a quick count of cities on the mainland that do not have powered factories yet. I only counted cities that will build factories or that already have them and are not powered yet. I came up with 942 base :hammers: and this was a low estimate because many cities were not working all of their hammer tiles at the moment (I left citizens as they were in the test game). This means that Three Gorges Dam will give us 942/2 = 471 :hammers: This is huge considering the real number will be over 500 once we start working more hammer tiles.

I think we need to do everything we can to finish 3GD as soon as possible and this starts with figuring out how to learn Plastics in 2 turns rather than 3. If we build wealth in all cities that are not building something critical (e.g. mainland factory, executive, pre-builds in Siberia to speed up 3GD, etc.) and hire merchants/scientists as necessary, this should be very doable.

Once we have powered factories on the mainland, we'll be able to have fewer cities building wealth and still keep our research slider at 100%. We can then stagger critical builds in our cities (e.g. executives, observatories, health buildings?, etc.) to prepare for the Research Institute builds, which will provide a significant increase in our science output, making it possible to finish research in less than 18 turns.

Let's do everything we can to finish research as quickly as possible (16 turns sounds like a good goal). Once this is done, we'll have to figure out the logistics of how to finish scrubbing and how/when to take out Stalin.
 
Did we wanna chop 3GD or save for SS? Chopping 3GD is worth circa 500h, if it speeds up the build by 1t + could speed up research, whereas 3 chops are worth 360h for an Alum/Copper SS component...
 
We can easily do plastics in 2 turns instead of 3. The bpt I listed above gives us plastics in 2 turns. So from my original estimate of 23 turns of research will probably be 21 or so after the dam is done.

Ok, I will try making a revised PPP tonight focusing on plastics in 2 turns, dam as fast as possible.
 
Did we wanna chop 3GD or save for SS? Chopping 3GD is worth circa 500h, if it speeds up the build by 1t + could speed up research, whereas 3 chops are worth 360h for an Alum/Copper SS component...

I'm almost certain we want to save the chops for the last part, which will probably be the stasis chamber from genetics (1200 hammers). I think the chops + good overflow will let us finish the stasis chamber in 2 turns, 3 at worst. I can't look at the save right now but I'll check the math on that.
 
We can easily do plastics in 2 turns instead of 3. The bpt I listed above gives us plastics in 2 turns. So from my original estimate of 23 turns of research will probably be 21 or so after the dam is done.

Ok, I will try making a revised PPP tonight focusing on plastics in 2 turns, dam as fast as possible.

Does this 21 turns of research include the boost from Research Institutes?
 
No. If we want the boost from research institutes, we'll have to tech it before rocketry. My only concern is that if we do that, it will delay SS construction. But given our production base, it may be smarter to go research institutes first... Apollo takes about 4 turns to build if I've done my math right, so we can do rocketry -- fiber optics -- fusion and still finish Apollo before fusion is completed. However, the downside of this route is that it will delay the fusion GE, which we may or may not need depending on our GPP luck.
 
No. If we want the boost from research institutes, we'll have to tech it before rocketry. My only concern is that if we do that, it will delay SS construction. But given our production base, it may be smarter to go research institutes first... Apollo takes about 4 turns to build if I've done my math right, so we can do rocketry -- fiber optics -- fusion and still finish Apollo before fusion is completed. However, the downside of this route is that it will delay the fusion GE, which we may or may not need depending on our GPP luck.

Since research is our current bottleneck, I say we focus on getting Research Institute ASAP and figure out how to sequence the SS builds based on beelining Superconductors (through Computers) after Plastics.
 
If we are going to switch to slavery with cristo redeemer then we would want to whip and store OF before fiber optics is researched and Kremlin obsoletes.

Also in the PPP posted I saw Siberia builds both Rock and Roll and Eiffel Tower. I think Hammer City could build Eiffel Tower almost as fast and I think simultaneously would be better than not for those happiness wonders.

I favor superconductors before rocketry too.
 
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