Having a capitulated vassal state broken off from you...

Veteranewbie

Prince
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Dec 26, 2002
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Although it's small and weak when compared to you?
I've just played a game when I destroyed the celts and there's only one distant city left which I have vassalized.
Later on I threatened him to give me his money and tribute (but he refused and the relationship dropped to the bottom). About 5~10 turns later he said that he no longer want to be my vassal (with only 2 achers defending his last and only city and I had about 10 calvary next to his border) , in which case I crushed him the same turn he declared independence.
I wondered, is it possible for capitulated vassal to do things like that? Isn't this only possible when a capitualted vassal has reached half my size?

Also, I think they should fix that vassal state trying to make silly deals with me like 'open borders'... This seems to be a stupid idea consider that I can go through his territory anyway. And secondly, perhaps my vassal should stop bad talking me like 'what do you puny little civilization want from us?' etc., I mean, I'll be more thrilled if he decides to call me 'Master', which is what I am to him, and a vassal should so learn not to test his Master's patient
 
Capitulated vassals can also withdraw if they lose half their territory since the time of the agreement. Though I was under the impression that refusing a resource request was supposed to result in a state of war.

The Open Borders agreement is so they can move through your territory... you can always move through theirs.
 
I'd love my capitulated vassal to break off the arrangement, as my game stands at the moment, the chinese capitulated and I am now stuck with them when I'd rather just take their few remaining cities. I also thought that if they refuse you tribute it was an automatic state of war but the chinese are refusing all I ask for and unfortunately the resulting war is not taking place!
 
AljayBoy said:
I also thought that if they refuse you tribute it was an automatic state of war but the chinese are refusing all I ask for and unfortunately the resulting war is not taking place!

I had the same thing, also with China. I wonder if it is a civ-specific bug, the other civs all give what I ask for.
 
Vassal breaking War only happens if the first Resource demand that turn is refused. All other forms of tribute can be refused at no cost. (besides annoying you)

Also Open Borders will let you get trade routes with them (for a benefit to you)
 
Krikkitone said:
Vassal breaking War only happens if the first Resource demand that turn is refused. All other forms of tribute can be refused at no cost. (besides annoying you)

Also Open Borders will let you get trade routes with them (for a benefit to you)

Riiigghht, the first resource demand that turn eh? Hmm, gonna have to demand the resource every turn in the hope that they refuse and I can subsequently amalgamate the few remaining cities into my small empire! :cool: Cheers for the info Krikkitone.
 
I currently have the Zulus as Vassals and they pretty much send me to hell each time I ask anything. I'd like to break it off so I can get their big cities... Needed to make peace cause 2 stronger nations had just jumped in the fight, too much for me to handle at once.

I think maybe I need to cancel the deals I have with him and start from scratch? Also I noticed I can control his research, does it mean any new tech he finds will go to me freely as well?
 
Also, I think they should fix that vassal state trying to make silly deals with me like 'open borders'... This seems to be a stupid idea consider that I can go through his territory anyway.

It´s for the trade routes.
 
This whole thing is really confusing
Another annoying thing is when you and an ally get into a fight with the same civ, while you're the one making the most fightings, your 'ally' can steal him from you i.e. after a long siege on his largest city when you're just 1 turn away from capturing it afte 10 turns of intense sieging, then *bam* you're at peace with him and all your units get bumped back 10 miles away, even more annoying when the dodgy AI submit itself to a larger civ, *whack* suddenly you're in war with a civ 2 times your side
 
Yeah, that just happened to me; lovely war against the French, taking their cities, then they become a vassal of Asoka and suddenly that little city I took between India and the last decent city of Napoleon's is stuck in a revolting situation. I'd go to war with Asoka simply for the Frenchman's land, but he's ahead of me on tech... so I guess Asoka was smart to do this, the git!
 
Perhaps they should make an option that, when the civ you're fighting against submit to another civ, the civ that you're warring against will come up to you with a peace/war option saying something that 'we're now serving civ XXX, if you continue war against us is an act of war against civ XXX etc etc.' and you got to choose to make peace (with a price, hopefully) or continue on to destroy him
 
I appears that you're not always at war with the new master state if your opponent becomes someone else's vassal. Peter and I were both at war with Frederick (Peter is Pleased towards me), and just as I'm about to take Berlin, I'm informed that I am now at peace with Frederick. Frederick has capitulated to Peter, myself and all my vassals are automatically at peace with Frederick, and my troops have been thrown out of German territory.

They really need to give you a popup that asks you to choose peace or war with the new master of a vassal you were at war with. Letting the AI decide really sucks.
 
It's a big problem especially when the new master is your close ally
But then again, this maybe a cunning strategy for the invaded civ to survive among the big civ
 
AriochIV said:
I appears that you're not always at war with the new master state if your opponent becomes someone else's vassal. Peter and I were both at war with Frederick (Peter is Pleased towards me), and just as I'm about to take Berlin, I'm informed that I am now at peace with Frederick. Frederick has capitulated to Peter, myself and all my vassals are automatically at peace with Frederick, and my troops have been thrown out of German territory.

They really need to give you a popup that asks you to choose peace or war with the new master of a vassal you were at war with. Letting the AI decide really sucks.
If a vassal relationship is created because of capitulation, then the vassal takes the diplomatic status of the master. Since Fredrick capitulated to Peter and Peter was a peace with you, you are then at peace with Fredrick.

IF a vassal is created because of a peacetime agreement, then the master takes on the diplomatic status of the vassal. i.e. if Peter had not been warring with Fredrick and Fredrick had gone to him seeking "protection" in the form of a vassal relationship, you would have been at war with both Peter and Fredrick.
 
suspendinlight said:
IF a vassal is created because of a peacetime agreement, then the master takes on the diplomatic status of the vassal. i.e. if Peter had not been warring with Fredrick and Fredrick had gone to him seeking "protection" in the form of a vassal relationship, you would have been at war with both Peter and Fredrick.

Actually, they both war with anyone who was at war with either of them in this case. Peter would declare war on anyone Fredrick was at war with, and Fredrick would declare war on anyone Peter was at war with.
 
Yeah, it looks like the difference is that it was a wartime capitulation, and all combatants were forced into a peaceful state. In a voluntary vassalization of a combatant to a peaceful master, all parties are forced into a war state.

I really think this is something that the player should be given the option to choose. Just a simple popup asking if you want to go to war (or are willing to accept peace), like the one you get when a voluntary vassal chooses to leave.
 
Can you just redeclare war?
 
Actually I must say that I like this new feature. It adds flavor to the game. Right now I'm playing as Churchill and was just capturing Moscow when Huyana suddenly declared war on me. A mouseover on the score screen showed that Pete had submitted to Huyana and dragged him into the war. Very clever ! I think that's what anyone would do in this situation. If you can't fight your opponent yourself, search a big dog who can do it. Well, unfortunately for Pete Huyana is not a big dog. He lost his first city to me 5 turns later :D . But now things are really getting interesting - Brennus has declared on me too, and I'm fighting two Civs now. Lovely Pangaea ! With the Vassal State Option it is now more difficult to steamroll over a smaller, weaker Civ - it might bring a big pal with him. Which means diplomacy gets more important, one should decide carefully whom to attack...

Imhotep
 
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