Loyal PC gamers finally kicked in teeth

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Yeah, you pretty much can't be a serious PC gamer if you don't care for Strategy Games or Shooters.

I was originally going to take issue with that idea, but then again I don't really do much gaming on the PC anymore.

I used to be a pretty serious/dedicated PC gamer throughout the 90s, when I could play Ultima, Civilization, Master of Magic, Master of Orion, Sierra and LucasArts graphic adventures, Bioforge, SimCity, Betrayal at Krondor, Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, Might & Magic 3 through 5, Thief, Wing Commander, and several dozen more games that are currently boxed-up in a closet at home. The most recent PC games that I own are Civ 4, Beyond the Sword, Age of Wonders Shadow Magic, Galactic Civs 2, and Vampire: The Masquerade: Buglines, er Bloodlines.

I have to say that Swedishguy is right on that FPSs and RTSs are not necessarily about action. RTSs don't even need explaining (Real-Time STRATEGY, people?).

I've rarely enjoyed an RTS game. In single-player games, it's "real time" for the computer, but not really for the player, as the CPU doesn't have to cope with an interface. It knows where all of its units are all the time, and doesn't have to physically scroll around the map constantly. Eventually, the player gets proficient enough with the UI such that any advantages that the CPU has in that area are overshadowed by its weak AI.

For multi-player matches, it's always felt to me that strategy is less important than the ability to scroll the map and select units and buildings extremely quickly so that nothing is ever sitting there idle when it could be doing something. Perhaps when you get to the level where you can do that without even having to think about it then strategy would play more of a role, but that requires more time spent mastering the UI than I am willing to spend when I could be playing a new and different game.

And as far as shooters go, you need strategy to win ANY shooter (actually, pretty much any game) or else you'll die easily or get stuck easily (which used to happen to me alot until I found IGN's game guides). And Half-Life is basically the Zelda of FPSs (meaning that it is more about puzzles than about combat).

Even simple games like Tetris or Pac-Man require some degree of "strategy" in order to perform well, but it often boils down to rote memorization of patterns more than anything else. Most FPS games don't feel particularly strategic to me, other than multi-player matches where team strategies and tactics are pretty instrumental to doing well. But I don't enjoy these type of matches either, as it starts to feel insanely repetitive very quickly (restarting on the same map a dozen times in a single game, for example). Not interested in playing the same handful of small maps dozens upon dozens of times so that I can memorize the layouts perfectly. The rare times that I do play in one of these matches, the players who excel seem to be the ones who know the level layouts as well as their own houses and can distinguish a 10-pixel high model of a teammate from an enemy at a glance.

As a player, I like to explore game worlds and just take in all of the new and interesting experiences that a game has to offer. Mastery holds very little value to me, as it generally requires a great deal of repetition and I don't really get off on being able to demonstrate great skill at playing a video game. I would much rather play something new (or play something that was really cool over again) than play segments of the same game over and over again just to get better at it. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to achieve mastery; it just isn't my style. I never play Civilization beyond the "Noble" level; it ceases to be fun for me and mistakes and experimentation can become very costly. After that point, the game starts to feel (to me) like it's about optimization and not about just enjoying the experience.

That probably blew any remaining "nerd cred" that I may have had. :) I'd probably do a lot more PC gaming if it wasn't dominated by RTS, FPS, and MMO games. I can't handle the mind-numbing repetitiveness of MMOs, and the only FPS-type games that I have ever really enjoyed are Deus Ex, Deus Ex: Invisible War (first was way better but still liked the second), System Shock 2, Bioshock (the little bit that I played), and Metroid Prime.
 
Tetris especially!

Yeah, same here with RTS games. I still want StarCraft, though.

IMO does Metroid Prime refer to the entire trilogy or just the first one?

As for those games you mentioned, they're not really FPSs so much as they are Adventure Games (Metroid Prime trilogy) and/or RPGs (System Shock and Deus Ex series).

And thanks for bringing RPGs up! I don't think I've ever played (a great) one in my entire life! The ones that I would like to play the most are KotOR and WoW.
 
I don't think there is anything essentially wrong about RTS's or TBS's on consoles. RTS's on consoles probably have some because of the rapid game, but with a great user interface they can likely be countered, but I am not an expert on that. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (turn-based) is my favourite Game Boy game ever; I own DS and FFTA is still the game I play most. Of course FFTA is nowhere near Civilization in complexity, but if Firaxis can make a good UI. If I am correct, Firaxis's making Revolution more straightforward than the main Civs, right?
 
Even simple games like Tetris or Pac-Man require some degree of "strategy" in order to perform well, but it often boils down to rote memorization of patterns more than anything else. Most FPS games don't feel particularly strategic to me, other than multi-player matches where team strategies and tactics are pretty instrumental to doing well. But I don't enjoy these type of matches either, as it starts to feel insanely repetitive very quickly (restarting on the same map a dozen times in a single game, for example). Not interested in playing the same handful of small maps dozens upon dozens of times so that I can memorize the layouts perfectly. The rare times that I do play in one of these matches, the players who excel seem to be the ones who know the level layouts as well as their own houses and can distinguish a 10-pixel high model of a teammate from an enemy at a glance.

As a player, I like to explore game worlds and just take in all of the new and interesting experiences that a game has to offer. Mastery holds very little value to me, as it generally requires a great deal of repetition and I don't really get off on being able to demonstrate great skill at playing a video game. I would much rather play something new (or play something that was really cool over again) than play segments of the same game over and over again just to get better at it. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to achieve mastery; it just isn't my style. I never play Civilization beyond the "Noble" level; it ceases to be fun for me and mistakes and experimentation can become very costly. After that point, the game starts to feel (to me) like it's about optimization and not about just enjoying the experience.

That probably blew any remaining "nerd cred" that I may have had. :) I'd probably do a lot more PC gaming if it wasn't dominated by RTS, FPS, and MMO games. I can't handle the mind-numbing repetitiveness of MMOs, and the only FPS-type games that I have ever really enjoyed are Deus Ex, Deus Ex: Invisible War (first was way better but still liked the second), System Shock 2, Bioshock (the little bit that I played), and Metroid Prime.

I like you. I agree with the entire quoted statement here. One beef: I never really think of Metroid Prime as a shooter. It's really an adventure game shown from a first-person perspective. Which is why I like it. I get bored of shooters outside of multiplayer.

I also dislike MMORPGs. They are far to incouraging of munchkinism for my tastes.
 
Tetris especially!

Yeah, same here with RTS games. I still want StarCraft, though.

IMO does Metroid Prime refer to the entire trilogy or just the first one?

As for those games you mentioned, they're not really FPSs so much as they are Adventure Games (Metroid Prime trilogy) and/or RPGs (System Shock and Deus Ex series).

And thanks for bringing RPGs up! I don't think I've ever played (a great) one in my entire life! The ones that I would like to play the most are KotOR and WoW.

WoW isn't really an RPG as much as an MMO. If you want a good, open world RPG, you should try the KotOR series, Mass Effect, Diablo(wow, getting old school here), Elder Scrolls, and Fallout. Baldur's gate was ok, but I didn't like it as much. If you don't care if it is open world or not, add ChronoTrigger/Cross and Final Fantasy to your list(VII, IX, and XII are the best of them so far, IMHO).
 
baldur's gate was great, but it's a bit old now, try out neverwinter nights (1 and its expansions or 2 but not the expansion for 2 that was rubbish) its a very similar game.
 
Yeah. My Wii library is pretty complete, so I want games like StarCraft (I just hope it doesn't ruin my PC) and KotOR. I have Total War (not sure which one, probably Medieval II) as a backup.
 
I guess I'm a dreaded evil console gears of war/halo 3/madden player then. I've been pretty highly ranked in the last of those, also (top 100 in NCAA 2005, top 1000 in every game since.)

I've come the other direction, back into civ, but I play everything. Usually I have no problem with what people put on the forums, but the OP is pretty uncalled for.

Hey OP: It's business sense. If the market is there, you'll probably see it on the PC too. Games are still made for PC's...hell the consoles are starting to look like PC's themselves. It's still gaming, I don't see the issue. If you don't like 13 year olds, don't play with them. Admittedly, I tend to avoid certain game modes they frequent too (*cough* sniper heavy game modes *cough*).
 
PC vs Consoles. The battle will rage on but the truth is the two are coming closer together all the time. I've been a PC games for, well forever. I'm only a recent convert to consoles thanks to my kids. And while most of my gaming is still PC it is possible to play both and enjoy both. Wii, PS2, PS3 and two PC's what could be better than variety. I'm looking for a good used 360 now and then there's nothing out there I can't play. I'm looking forward to Revolutions as a worthy addition to the Civ family.::D
 
:eek: 9 pages of this...

BTW, everybody knows that Penguin Wars was the quintessential moment in strategy gaming...

EDIT: In all seriousness, I propose that Command HQ should receive honorable mention. Penguin Wars was a fun game, by the way.
 
I just discovered that PC Zone Magazine's Top PC Game was NOT either a shooter or a strategy game (though it is a First-Person game). Here were the results of the poll, posted on January 2007.

1. Deus Ex
2. Half-Life 2
3. Civilization IV
4. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
5. Half-Life
6. Rome: Total War
7. System Shock 2
8. Battlefield 2
9. DOOM
10. The Secret of Monkey Island

I'm quite stunned that games like StarCraft, X-COM, Pirates!, and Star Control II didn't make the list.
 
I just discovered that PC Zone Magazine's Top PC Game was NOT either a shooter or a strategy game (though it is a First-Person game). Here were the results of the poll, posted on January 2007.

1. Deus Ex
2. Half-Life 2
3. Civilization IV
4. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
5. Half-Life
6. Rome: Total War
7. System Shock 2
8. Battlefield 2
9. DOOM
10. The Secret of Monkey Island

I'm quite stunned that games like StarCraft, X-COM, Pirates!, and Star Control II didn't make the list.

That's because PC Zone doesn't know a classic when they see one...you notice every single one of those other than System Shock and Monkey Island are less than 4 years old?

Try checking PC Gamer or Metacritic...here's Metacritic's list of top 20 PC games:

Rank/Title/Year/Score
1 Half-Life 2 2004 96
2 Out of the Park Baseball 2007 2007 96
3 Orange Box, The 2007 96
4 Half-Life 1998 96
5 Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn 2000 95
6 BioShock 2007 95
7 Command & Conquer 1995 94
8 Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 2003 94
9 Civilization II 1996 94
10 Quake 1996 94
11 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The 2006 94
12 Grim Fandango 1998 94
13 Diablo 1996 94
14 Civilization IV 2005 94
15 Company of Heroes 2006 93
16 Unreal Tournament 2004 2004 93
17 Grand Theft Auto III 2002 93
18 Homeworld 1999 93
19 Team Fortress 2 2007 93
20 Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2003 93

...starcraft is ranked #118, but it got an 88 average review score...Metacritic ranks them by the average review score at the time they came out...so lasting value for the various games are not considered in their list.
 
IMO does Metroid Prime refer to the entire trilogy or just the first one?

The first and third ones, anyway. I still haven't played Metroid Prime 2.

As for those games you mentioned, they're not really FPSs so much as they are Adventure Games (Metroid Prime trilogy) and/or RPGs (System Shock and Deus Ex series).

Yup, that's sort of my point -- which is why I referred to them as FPS-like or FPS-type or something like that. The FPS-style interface and control setup is fine, but I need more adventure-style elements to keep me interested. Bioshock was also pretty cool from the couple of hours that I got to spend with it, but I don't own a 360 yet, and my PC is too old to handle the game in a manner that I would find acceptable.

And thanks for bringing RPGs up! I don't think I've ever played (a great) one in my entire life! The ones that I would like to play the most are KotOR and WoW.

KOTOR was awesome, and is one of my favourites (I played it on the Xbox). On the PC, my faves are: Ultima VII: The Black Gate, Ultima VII Part 2: Serpent Isle, Fallout, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, and Betrayal at Krondor. I think the newest of those was released in 2000 (BG2) -- I just haven't been terribly thrilled with PC RPGs for a while now, although Bioware's upcoming Dragon Age looks good.
 
That's because PC Zone doesn't know a classic when they see one...you notice every single one of those other than System Shock and Monkey Island are less than 4 years old?
Doom isn't. It's a good 14 years old now (and if you say "what about Doom 3" then god help me I will reach down the internet and beat you to death with your own keyboard! :p).
 
I like you. I agree with the entire quoted statement here. One beef: I never really think of Metroid Prime as a shooter. It's really an adventure game shown from a first-person perspective. Which is why I like it. I get bored of shooters outside of multiplayer.

I also dislike MMORPGs. They are far to incouraging of munchkinism for my tastes.

Thanks! :)

I don't really think of Metroid Prime (or Deus Ex, or System shock, or Thief) as a shooter either, and that's why I don't get bored with it after 15 minutes.

I played Ultima Online for about 9 months when it first came out, and that was the end of my interest in MMORPGs. Tried Everquest during the beta and hated it, and I signed up for a free 3-day trial of WoW sometime last year. Played for 3 hours and was bored out of my mind, and didn't bother logging in again. Too much repetitive grinding, and there's no way for people like me, who might be interested in logging in for a 2-3 hour session once every couple of weeks or once a month, to be able to do anything interesting when you have people who play 4-6 hours per night dominating the game.

As for the whole "PC vs console" war, I just plain don't get it. A great game is a great game, regardless of what system it's on. My first electronic gaming was with the Intellivision in 1982, and I didn't get a computer until 1989 (C-64) when I already had an NES.

I preferred PC gaming for a few years, as I enjoyed the generally more complex and freeform gameplay. However, that was when I was in my late teens and early twenties, attending high school and university, single, and living with my parents.

Today, I'm approaching the age of 34, married, and working full-time as a game designer for a major studio (Rockstar). I'm just looking for something different in my games now than I did 10-15 years ago. After spending 8+ hours a day on the computer at work, I want to just kick back and relax on the couch in front of the 52" TV instead of hunching over the computer keyboard and mouse. I just want to turn on a game, play for a couple of hours, and enjoy it, with the absolute minimal amount of troubleshooting or configuration/optimization. The PC gaming market just seems to be moving in the opposite direction than what I'm looking for now.
 
So, you got to work on Grand Theft Auto IV?!!!

And add Morrowind to that list. Oblivion is too violent for me.

Well people I guess have their own opinions. I mean one of my friends loves open-world RPGs but he hates KotOR (partly because he doesn't like Star Wars).
 
yeah, MORROWIND'S GREAT!!!!!!
 
Doom isn't. It's a good 14 years old now (and if you say "what about Doom 3" then god help me I will reach down the internet and beat you to death with your own keyboard! :p).

lol I thought it said Doom 3...the original Doom was the best of the Dooms, I agree. I never understood all the fuss about Doom 3...it wasn't anything spectacular...just a graphics demo of the Doom engine lol
 
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