They need to hotfix AI agression now

ColdFever · Jul 11, 2013

ColdFever said:
Unfortunately, the early game now seems to be just about gold farming. Without gold, there are almost no other options, especially not for the AI. So for the first hour the Civs just farm and farm. This can be so tedious and goes over such a long time, that it could seriously hurt MP...

apocalypse105 said:
Multiplayer with diplomacy what more do you want?

There also is no diplomacy. Without gold, people just have to farm for an hour to get the basic things going until finally BNW begins to shine. I really like how the late game now works, the tedium there seems to be gone, great! But now there is early game tedium, because it takes much too long to get enough gold to get the ball rolling, especially for the AI.

apocalypse105 · Jul 11, 2013

ColdFever said:
There also is no diplomacy. Without gold, people just have to farm for an hour to get the basic things going until finally BNW begins to shine. I really like how the late game now works, the tedium there seems to be gone, great! But now there is early game tedium, because it takes much to long to get enough gold to get the ball rolling, especially for the AI.

Really you can secure borders with someone you both trade with eachother and start conquering other people.

SamBC · Jul 11, 2013

You want early wars? You can start them yourselves.

But really, how many games have any of you played yet? Perhaps need a slightly bigger sample size? It would explain why some people aren't seeing a problem, some are seeing a slight change, some are seeing a big change. We all played loads of G&K, so we know what it's like on average. No one of us can see what BNW is like on average yet.

mosin · Jul 11, 2013

I have to join in and say the AIs are indeed too passive.
I am already accustomed to having 2 ~ 3 warriors or archers hunting barbs, and I straight teching until turn 150~200 without any invasion worries.

Bridger · Jul 11, 2013

godman85 said:
but when I have 1 archer for my ENTIRE army and my neighbor 2 tiles away has an army that would wipe me off the face of the earth, maybe they should atleast threaten me like the old days. They are insanely passive. Even with massive advantages, they rather wait.

If they capture your cities and take on all the extra building maintenance when they already have a problem with money....how does that benefit them?

Bisqit · Jul 11, 2013

As I've said in a previous post, I personally haven't had this experience at all. I was playing on prince and Indonesia backstabbed me twice and Shaka conquered Brazil and the Shoshone before i could even meet them on continents plus. I've been in war with Shaka as well. I am just not seeing this "passiveness" at all.

Ulthwithian · Jul 11, 2013

Bisqit said:
As I've said in a previous post, I personally haven't had this experience at all. I was playing on prince and Indonesia backstabbed me twice and Shaka conquered Brazil and the Shoshone before i could even meet them on continents plus. I've been in war with Shaka as well. I am just not seeing this "passiveness" at all.

Perhaps the issue is one of increased diplomatic sensitivity, and the AI has been 'taught' to recognize this.

Which means that if most people are playing on Pangaea (where everyone meets everyone fairly quickly), then the AI knows that if they DoW on someone, they're likely to eat 2-3 DoWs themselves and/or cripple their economy through denouncements etc.

Whereas with more dispersed play, the AI 'sees' fewer other Civs early, and can make a better decision on whether or not to try to eliminate the rivals on their continent before heading overseas.

'Venice? I don't quite recall... oh, well, yes, there was a city-state by that name here about 500 years ago, but we call it South Petersburg.' </Catherine>

jaldaen · Jul 11, 2013

Another thing that might be happening is that more civs are aiming for Diplo and Culture wins in BNW than before and so they are avoiding warmongering. But as others have said, the sample size is a bit too low right now. Plus, there are so many variables to maps, distribution of civs, etc. that it may take a long time to see a true trend. Only those who playtested the game long term might have insights into whether the AI is too passive, just right, or too aggressive.

bpower · Jul 11, 2013

They cant just up the aggression on it own. It would cause civ to Dec in unfavorable circumstances. They'd need to change the amount of gold civs can get after losing some trade routes. Until they do that extra aggression would hurt the ai,turning early wars into all or nothing gambles.

But i do agree the early game is a bit too easy going.

Securion · Jul 11, 2013

It really depends on what civs you pick as opponents. Learn to pick opponents. Its not very hard. And if you really wanna be surprised, pick three or four warmongers and leave the rest on Random.

Also, early game lack of gold is also a factor now for the AI. It usually fixes itself as soon as a few trade routes comes up.

DrZero · Jul 11, 2013

if its lack of gold, how about having tiles next to rivers give +1 gold again?

Securion · Jul 11, 2013

DrZero said:
if its lack of gold, how about having tiles next to rivers give +1 gold again?

There is already too much gold in the game after the classical era.

IAmOzymandias · Jul 11, 2013

>>play 1 game of BNW
>>Form opinion of entire expansion based on 1 game.
>>needs patch nao

Botswana · Jul 11, 2013

My biggest problem is that the AI doesn't EXPAND. It just sits there, never placing cities even when there is large amounts of land ripe for the taking right next to them.

Ashbery76 · Jul 11, 2013

A reckless A.I in not a good A.I.

chrisjwmartin · Jul 11, 2013

Go and play Call of Duty if you want a grindcore killfest. Leave Civilization to the civilised.

apocalypse105 · Jul 11, 2013

Botswana said:
My biggest problem is that the AI doesn't EXPAND. It just sits there, never placing cities even when there is large amounts of land ripe for the taking right next to them.

I've seen even brazile expand drasticly they just expand slower the normal .

Look at the lets play of marocco immortal where pedro just expanded crazy

True_Candyman · Jul 11, 2013

chrisjwmartin said:
Go and play Call of Duty if you want a grindcore killfest. Leave Civilization to the civilised.

This kind of comment is just so crude, i thought the civilised were above it

Clearly everyone likes their AI different ways which to me means there is one obvious solution to help everyone.

Moar customization. Make some sliders for AI bonuses or AI aggression or some such other thing, and for all sorts more in the game set up menu. Stick in in an extra tab called "super advanced setup" or something so it doesn't clutter the quick start stuff.

Civilization is a big enough game that can be played so differently that really i'm surprised there aren't already more settings tweaking options like this.

Thorn · Jul 11, 2013

Buccaneer said:
I guess firaxis can't win either way. First, people whine about mean AI declaring war on you and now that they become more docile, people still complain. Civ is a war game and there should always be wars somewhere, not necessary involving you. There is nothing worse than passive opponents that are not playing aggressive to win (any victories).

The bold, underline sentence is why Firaxis will never please everyone. I've played Civilization since 1991 and have never thought of it as a war game. I like the idea that you can become allied with a Civ for the entire game and not have it turn on you just because 'it's trying to win the game'.
If you want wars, like someone said - start them. Or add back the 'Always War' option to your setup menu.
Or maybe Firaxis can add a Play a 'Wargame' or 'Buildergame' option? :dunno:

Thorn · Jul 11, 2013

True_Candyman said:
Clearly everyone likes their AI different ways which to me means there is one obvious solution to help everyone.

Moar customization. Make some sliders for AI bonuses or AI aggression or some such other thing, and for all sorts more in the game set up menu. Stick in in an extra tab called "super advanced setup" or something so it doesn't clutter the quick start stuff.

Civilization is a big enough game that can be played so differently that really i'm surprised there aren't already more settings tweaking options like this.

Hey, I just said that! :mischief:

They need to hotfix AI agression now

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