Best leader your country never had

No President was perfect, Kochman. Yes, that was a blunder of epic proportions, but you should judge him in his entirety. At least he didn't use his position as chief executive to coerce underlings into sex in the oval office, for example.
 
bhsup said:
No President was perfect, Kochman. Yes, that was a blunder of epic proportions, but you should judge him in his entirety. At least he didn't use his position as chief executive to coerce underlings into sex in the oval office, for example.
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If you're referring to Clinton, coercion is definitely the wrong concept to be putting into the conversation.

I just need to be shown how Adams was really worth it. I don't believe him to be, though my study of him is somewhat limited.
 
Just as a wild guess, there are plenty of underlings who would happily participate in sex in the oval office with no coercion required. I have yet to see any evidence that Ms Lewinski was not among them.
 
I submit someone holding the office of President of the United States in relation to a young 20-ish wide-eyed intern is automatically exerting coercion just by virtue of the differences of their positions. Thankfully, most of the people holding the office are not morally bankrupt. Then there's Bubba...
 
bhsup said:
I submit someone holding the office of President of the United States in relation to a young 20-ish wide-eyed intern is automatically exerting coercion just by virtue of the differences of their positions. Thankfully, most of the people holding the office are not morally bankrupt. Then there's Bubba...
Click to expand...

I submit that if 'moral bankruptcy' is a package deal with overall good job performance, and 'moral rectitude' is packaged with democratization by invasion and economic havoc I will take the moral bankruptcy every time.

That said, hop off the prude horse. There are, and were, a huge number of twenty somethings having sex and it didn't take a president to get them to do it...it's just what twenty somethings have always done. Biology rules.
 
Timsup2nothin said:
That said, hop off the prude horse. ... Biology rules.
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No, I will not hop off. He was/is a married man and if he cannot be trusted to keep sacred his wedding vows, he cannot be trusted with his Presidential oath of office. The single most important elected position in the country, if not the world. Demonstrated by his willingness to get all cozy with ChiCom agents. He'd have sold us down the river to the ChiComs if he could have. He was the true Manchurian President. That's (adultery) also why I refused to vote for McCain in 2008 and instead wrote in Romney.

And biology does not rule. We humans have evolved to be capable of inhibiting our biological 'urges' for the sake of society.
 
bhsup said:
No, I will not hop off. He was/is a married man and if he cannot be trusted to keep sacred his wedding vows, he cannot be trusted with his Presidential oath of office. The single most important elected position in the country, if not the world. That's also why I refused to vote for McCain in 2008 and instead wrote in Romney.

And biology does not rule. We humans have evolved to be capable of inhibiting our biological 'urges' for the sake of society.
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I tend to leave peoples' 'sacred wedding vows' and the enforcement thereof to whoever they made them with, and whatever God they choose to involve in them, if any. I also don't see how a bunch of pent up sexual frustration would be of great benefit to society. Please explain.
 
I absolutely did not vote for Pim Fortuyn, i did not agree with his views. He was however the only party indeed, that was anti-monarchy, and a threat to the dutch establishment. All the other parties are like dogs on the leash of the crown and the establishment.
 
bhsup said:
That's (adultery) also why I refused to vote for McCain in 2008 and instead wrote in Romney.
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So you wrote in the name of a "man" who abused his dog by making him ride in a crate on top of a car for hundreds of miles, then turned a hose on him when the poor dog got sick? :huh:

Hilary Clinton could fight for her marriage. Monica Lewinsky had a choice.

Romney's dog was helpless on that trip.
 
That whole thing was so overblown, it's ridiculous. Seriously, as a dog (well okay dog AND cat) person myself, I really don't see where he did anything really wrong here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney_dog_incident

Journalists Mike Allen and Evan Thomas assert that Romney did nothing unusual:

Overlooked in the clucking over the incident is the fact that the dog was in a crate, probably little different from the dog kennels used to transport animals in the cold-storage compartments of airplanes. Romney had erected a barrier to shield the family pet from the wind. Romney, the family man heading to the lake, didn't seem heartless at the time. But politics is a heartless business.
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Eugene V. Debs.

"Now my friends, I am opposed to the system of society in which we live today, not because I lack the natural equipment to do for myself, but because I am not satisfied to make myself comfortable knowing that there are thousands of my fellow men who suffer for the barest necessities of life. We were taught under the old ethic that man's business on this earth was to look out for himself. That was the ethic of the jungle; the ethic of the wild beast. Take care of yourself, no matter what may become of your fellow man. Thousands of years ago the question was asked: "Am I my brother's keeper?" That question has never yet been answered in a way that is satisfactory to civilized society."
 
bhsup said:
I submit someone holding the office of President of the United States in relation to a young 20-ish wide-eyed intern is automatically exerting coercion just by virtue of the differences of their positions. Thankfully, most of the people holding the office are not morally bankrupt. Then there's Bubba...
Click to expand...
You've stepped in it here.

1 - What straight male wouldn't want to have sex with a hot 20-ish girl?
2 - The marriage with Hillary had lost that loving feeling, it's not hard to see that
3 - His personal exploits are not our business
4 - Judging people for their bedroom behavior is a slippery slope
5 - Merely holding a position of power =/= coercive power
6 - As for morally bankrupt, that's your personal opinion (see #4), some people would say Bush was morally bankrupt to send thousands of soldiers to war or for not doing more to help X, Y, or Z; or Obama, or GHWB, or Reagan, etc...


@Valka D'Ur
Hilary Clinton could fight for her marriage. Monica Lewinsky had a choice.

Romney's dog was helpless on that trip.
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Thanks for making me dumber.
 
1) Any married one with any sense of moral decency.
2) Then he can file for divorce before betraying his marriage vows.
3) If he wants to be President, it is my business. You may not agree, but I'll base my votes on my criteria regardless of what you think.
4) So?
5) You're right. If the person in power isn't morally bankrupt, it's probably not an issue.
6) That's "some people" 's right to do so.

Still, if we want to continue this further, I suggest we move to PMs or a new thread. I apologize for derailing what is supposed to be a thread about great leaders with comments about Bubba.
 
bhsup said:
1) Any married one with any sense of moral decency.
2) Then he can file for divorce before betraying his marriage vows.
3) If he wants to be President, it is my business. You may not agree, but I'll base my votes on my criteria regardless of what you think.
4) So?
5) You're right. If the person in power isn't morally bankrupt, it's probably not an issue.
6) That's "some people" 's right to do so.

Still, if we want to continue this further, I suggest we move to PMs or a new thread. I apologize for derailing what is supposed to be a thread about great leaders with comments about Bubba.
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1 - You're insisting on your definition of marriage, some people have agreements
2 - He could, but we don't know all the circumstances, so to insist on divorce first is presumptuous (see #1)
3 - Well, if you base your voting on the private, consensual activities of two or three adults, that is your decision. I'll choose to worry about issues that are a little more relevant to being a president than bedroom habits.
4 - So, you might want to resist that (see #1-3)
5 - ...
6 - Yes, but if you come around publicly blasting it, be prepared to be contested
 
bhsup said:
That whole thing was so overblown, it's ridiculous. Seriously, as a dog (well okay dog AND cat) person myself, I really don't see where he did anything really wrong here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney_dog_incident
Click to expand...
I don't give a damn about why Romney brought the dog, or that he erected a "windshield."

My family used to travel to the Okanagan every summer. That was an 8 or 9-hour drive, even longer if there happened to be an accident or slide on the highway. We had the family dog with us, IN the car, and he got regular stops for walks, "doing his business," having a drink, etc.

Forcing a dog into an "air-tight crate" (WTF?) on top of a vehicle where there was no way to check on him to make sure he was okay, he'd be helpless in case of an accident, and evident indifference to his emotional and physical well-being, is ABUSE.
 
Valka D'Ur said:
I don't give a damn about why Romney brought the dog, or that he erected a "windshield."

My family used to travel to the Okanagan every summer. That was an 8 or 9-hour drive, even longer if there happened to be an accident or slide on the highway. We had the family dog with us, IN the car, and he got regular stops for walks, "doing his business," having a drink, etc.

Forcing a dog into an "air-tight crate" (WTF?) on top of a vehicle where there was no way to check on him to make sure he was okay, he'd be helpless in case of an accident, and evident indifference to his emotional and physical well-being, is ABUSE.
Click to expand...

Period.
 
Clinton was your best president in long time. To see one or two bad things and reject all is to play stupid or half blind. Romney is apparently a piece of jerk...Period.
 
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