Vokarya's Workshop: Wonders
- Thread starter Vokarya
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for the Deep Core Mine.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
Question though: When you said "improved Ironworks" that got me thinking... Will the Ironworks ever obsolete? Would that be a good or bad idea? If it ever did, when would be an appropriate time for it to do so?
Off the top of my head, I can't think of many AND National Wonders that obsolete (Flak Tower is one though) but they're usually not as 'major' to a city as the Ironworks can be. I can only imagine what sort of production a well-placed city with both the DCM and the IW in could whip up
Assuming they are allowed to be built in the same city, and that the latter never obsoletes
Off the top of my head, I can't think of many AND National Wonders that obsolete (Flak Tower is one though) but they're usually not as 'major' to a city as the Ironworks can be. I can only imagine what sort of production a well-placed city with both the DCM and the IW in could whip up
Assuming they are allowed to be built in the same city, and that the latter never obsoletes
Question though: When you said "improved Ironworks" that got me thinking... Will the Ironworks ever obsolete? Would that be a good or bad idea? If it ever did, when would be an appropriate time for it to do so?
Off the top of my head, I can't think of many AND National Wonders that obsolete (Flak Tower is one though) but they're usually not as 'major' to a city as the Ironworks can be. I can only imagine what sort of production a well-placed city with both the DCM and the IW in could whip up
Assuming they are allowed to be built in the same city, and that the latter never obsoletes
I think Ironworks shouldn't obsolete. I probably should put an exclusivity clause with Ironworks and Deep Core Mine. There are a couple of other pairs that I think are just a little too powerful together and want to break up.
So it's kind of like the Combat promotion event for Cannons, getting a promotion normally unavailable?
Stealth II requires Invisibility as well right? Units with the free Stealth I promotion won't be able to acquire any further Stealth promotions "before their time" so to speak?
I like the idea of this wonder. Stealth was always a nifty sounding promotion, but the games were almost always over before it came into play
Free Promotions from buildings only apply to unit classes that are eligible for the promotion (look at Greek Fire). The National Redoubt does get to bypass the tech requirement for the promotion.
I'll add Invisibility to the requirements for Stealth II. That way you can only get Stealth I with the National Redoubt, and you have to wait for Stealth II.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Ironworks a while back was once tried as going Obsolete, but was found that that left too huge a gap in a cities production as the next level Steel Works came into play. Iirc it was one of the early production adjustments several of us discussed and included in the Mod with 45* permission when I 1st joined the team.
If DCM does not come into play until Modern era then having Ironworks and it together should not be that big of a deal for what is left of the game. Quite frankly most games won't make it past Modern era anyway.
JosEPh
DCM doesn't show up until at least the middle of the Transhuman Era. Nanomining is one of those Transhuman Era techs that sounds like a great concept, but just needs some content to make it worth including in-game. So I think you are right and it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
It probably won't be a problem, since chances are the Ironworks city will end up having its National Wonder slots filled up before the DCM comes into play, and someone might want to place the latter in a different city anyway
We'll see how it all works out ^^
I settled on an effect for the Federal Reserve. I'm choosing to have it refund 50% of the gold you lose to Inflation. I'd prefer this over interest on gold reserves as I think treasuries get very high by the end of the Industrial Era where the FR becomes available. This is done as a start-of-turn Python effect, so I'm also keeping the free Bank as it gives the AI an incentive to build this and it also helps new cities or just-conquered cities get off the ground faster.
The other thing that I am choosing to do is make this linked to civics. The FR requires you to be running either the Corporatist or Regulated civics. I want it to be a little bit restricted but not confined to one civic, and I think Planned would subsume the FR under everything else, Free Market wouldn't spend government effort on this, Green has higher priorities, Post-Scarcity doesn't care about money at all, and anything less advanced wouldn't be able to handle the effort involved. I did some testing, and it looks to me that if the FR shuts off because of civic changes, then it won't provide any money to you.
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The other thing that I am choosing to do is make this linked to civics. The FR requires you to be running either the Corporatist or Regulated civics. I want it to be a little bit restricted but not confined to one civic, and I think Planned would subsume the FR under everything else, Free Market wouldn't spend government effort on this, Green has higher priorities, Post-Scarcity doesn't care about money at all, and anything less advanced wouldn't be able to handle the effort involved. I did some testing, and it looks to me that if the FR shuts off because of civic changes, then it won't provide any money to you.
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I have a few World Wonders that I want to do before I upload a new build. I'm always on the lookout for new Ancient Era wonders, as they are really hard to find. One of the ones that I would like to include is the Hill of Tara. It acts like Stonehenge in providing a free building, but in this case the building is a free Village Hall. I think this will help get new cities off the ground much faster with 1 free Specialist per city.
The other idea I had was to make this a source of Great Diplomat points. Certain Great Person types are hard to come by at particular points in the game (like early Scientists and Spies in general) and I think providing an adequate number of sources is a good thing.
I was able to find some good artwork for the Hill by taking the Standing Stones terrain improvement from Fall from Heaven 2 and using it as a building model. I also took the model and used it to create an icon that I think actually looks pretty good.
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The other idea I had was to make this a source of Great Diplomat points. Certain Great Person types are hard to come by at particular points in the game (like early Scientists and Spies in general) and I think providing an adequate number of sources is a good thing.
I was able to find some good artwork for the Hill by taking the Standing Stones terrain improvement from Fall from Heaven 2 and using it as a building model. I also took the model and used it to create an icon that I think actually looks pretty good.
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Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
Ghostly Slingers in your first screenshot
Free Village Hall? Haven't seen that before, should be interesting to see
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Not necessarily now that number of wonders is scaled with cultural level
Yes, national wonders tooGhostly Slingers in your first screenshot
I have not been able to track that down bug. It's the Mediterranean Slinger artwork that doesn't texture until you have seen an Archer. Once you see an Archer, then the Slinger gets its color, but not before, and I have no idea why.
I've got about one last thing to create before I start merging everything together to make a new build. While I work on that, I have a couple more things to post. Here is a new Industrial Era Wonder: the Maginot Line. I have learned in my modding experience that there is only so much you can do with XML, but there are also limitations on Python. Mostly, I worry about the effects being invisible to the AI and potentially lost on recalculation (I know we don't update that often, but the potential is there). Also, a World Wonder effect needs to be big, but I think the current tags have been heavily used and so just using those would make most new World Wonders feel like retreads of current ones.
So, when it comes to Python effects, I like fairly splashy one-shot effects, especially effects that put down permanent improvements, coupled with a similar XML effect to give the AI some pointers as to when to build it. I would love to do canal-structures (like Panama or Suez) if we could figure out how to model that properly in-game. We can, however, do Forts and related improvements.
The Maginot Line requires Artillery tech. It grants all cities +25% defense (this is an XML effect) and puts Bunker improvements along your frontiers; any square that is adjacent to a land square you do not own and does not already have a Bunker or touching another square with a Bunker will get one. I didn't want Bunkers every single square; I think that would be too much. This is what it looks like on empty space:
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The frontiers expand immediately afterwards to include the squares adjacent to the new Bunkers.
I did want to look for a Great Wall-style graphic for the Line, but I discovered that the GreatWallBuilder that covers creating the GW effect is buried at the EXE level (not even accessible to the DLL) and the only way I could do this is to sacrifice the Great Wall entirely. So what the graphics wind up being are this black bunker effect in the building city coupled with the new Bunkers along the Frontiers.
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So, when it comes to Python effects, I like fairly splashy one-shot effects, especially effects that put down permanent improvements, coupled with a similar XML effect to give the AI some pointers as to when to build it. I would love to do canal-structures (like Panama or Suez) if we could figure out how to model that properly in-game. We can, however, do Forts and related improvements.
The Maginot Line requires Artillery tech. It grants all cities +25% defense (this is an XML effect) and puts Bunker improvements along your frontiers; any square that is adjacent to a land square you do not own and does not already have a Bunker or touching another square with a Bunker will get one. I didn't want Bunkers every single square; I think that would be too much. This is what it looks like on empty space:
View attachment 378705View attachment 378706
The frontiers expand immediately afterwards to include the squares adjacent to the new Bunkers.
I did want to look for a Great Wall-style graphic for the Line, but I discovered that the GreatWallBuilder that covers creating the GW effect is buried at the EXE level (not even accessible to the DLL) and the only way I could do this is to sacrifice the Great Wall entirely. So what the graphics wind up being are this black bunker effect in the building city coupled with the new Bunkers along the Frontiers.
View attachment 378707View attachment 378708View attachment 378709
Lord Bigfoot
King
No offense but the Maginot line shouldn't be considered a great wonder. The thing was not only an abject failure but it can be argued that it was one of the main reasons that France fell to the Nazi's so fast.
Although it may have been a tactical failure, it may not necessarily be a substantial failure. It indeed played a defensive role, that wasn't backed by superior french tactics to german tactics.
Now about the wonder being a world wonder or a national one I don't have an opinion
I have interesting ( for me ) idea. How about to create a wonder that add you cells defence as a small % of cities already has?
For example, now city has 10,20,30,40% of cultural defence - depending it's cultural level.
But we can create "Maginot line" that willl add for example 5,10,15,20% additional defence and not only for city cells - for all cells within your cultural borders.
Could it be implemented on DLL level ?
For example, now city has 10,20,30,40% of cultural defence - depending it's cultural level.
But we can create "Maginot line" that willl add for example 5,10,15,20% additional defence and not only for city cells - for all cells within your cultural borders.
Could it be implemented on DLL level ?
What if we made a unit instead? The Road to War mod has an immobile unit called Maginot Line Fortifications. The Python effect can spawn them in the right places and then they can't move from there. I could probably port that over.
My idea for the Maginot Line was kind of a historical "what-if". Under other conditions, it might have been made to work properly and result in a full-fledged defense for your entire frontier. Somewhere in the future, I would like to do the Palace of the Soviets, which was supposed to be built in Moscow before WWII interfered; it would provide bonuses for establishing the "perfect communist state" (I think I had it boosting the civic buildings for Planned/Socialized/Communitarian). It was the very first Wonder I ever designed, and I even made a movie for it. It's another case of the "what-ifs" as it was planned to be built, but then got interfered with.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Sounds better to me; or at least, more feasible. I liked the idea of forts but as someone pointed out, it could cause more damage than good. I also like the idea of the Palace of the Soviets.
45°38'N-13°47'E;13324608 said:Sounds better to me; or at least, more feasible. I liked the idea of forts but as someone pointed out, it could cause more damage than good. I also like the idea of the Palace of the Soviets.
I think I'm going to leave it out of the next build, and we can revisit it at a later date.
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