Team Free Embassy

Cool – looks like we're getting consensus here.
I'll send this in about 2 hours if the positive comments continue.

:salute:
 
really good. :)

That common threat really makes us small civs work together nicely... :D
 
oops! forgot to send it! :blush: sorry, had a busy night.
Sending now!

Sent to FREE gmail
Title: Re: Babe and Saber
Spoiler :

Dear FREE friends,

Thanks for getting back to us so quickly. Unfortunately, it would appear that Saber has changed their mind on needing Map Making.. they think they're too far behind to really compete with BABE on grabbing Islands, and so want to focus on defense.
The time may still come when we want to help Saber with tech to help them avoid being totally annihilated by BABE, but that can wait till they're under attack, in our opinion – we hope you agree?

We don't think it's likely we'll be able to get Saber's map… but we will push them to try to get some information about where BABE is located, and we'll pass that along to you.

Here is our first letter from BABE… (very similar to the one you got)
Hello members of the Council,

We are please to meet your acquintance and we've sent our envoy Alessandra Ambrosio to see if we can set up a meeting on IM. Here's our envoy to the Council.

We'd like to discuss our futures together. Emp. Killyouall is a bit tied up these days as you may have read however BCLG, Robi D or Whomp cover most every time zone so we're flexible on times.

Looking forward to our relationship together.

XXOO
Alessandra Ambrosio of The Babes

We responded with an offer of peace, and asked them to respect our territorial waters, and then got this response:
Dear Bureaucrats of the Council,

We find your offer of peace heartwarming however we find your demand regarding your coastal waters provocative and discouraging for our future.
Our vessels do not carry military personnel so come purely with peaceful intentions. If you do not agree to let us pass through we will consider this a dire breach in our relationship.

Sincerely your new envoy,

The Bambino

That's all from them so far. So, not very great.

As to your proposals… We still haven't met GONG, and unless you have(?), there's nothing we can do about them for now. (and besides, based on how advanced BABE is, we suspect that they're working with someone else. We're 99% sure it's not Saber – and we know it's not you or us… so it stands to reason that BABE and GONG are at least friendly if not in full alliance.)

The embargo sounds good… but again, there's really nothing we can do now anyway. If you sign our proposed MAAP II agreement (or something like that) – then we'll have a mutual moratorium on trading with BABE anyway. (and we really doubt Saber will be trading with them).

The Mutual Defense Pact is an excellent idea… and we have proposed just such an idea in article 5 of our MAAP II proposal. We think Saber should be left on the outside of this for now, but if they come under attack, then we can gift them some gold, and maybe a few key technologies to get them into the Middle Ages and hopefully beat back the BABE invasion. We can always get them to agree to pay us back some small amount of gold after they survive. This allows us to help Saber if necessary, without having to promise anything and risk making them too powerful.

As for declaring war… doing so now is only likely to provoke BABE, in our opinion, and we'd rather try to lay low and hope they go after Saber, and waste their time and shields fighting there while we secretly help to prop up Saber… which ties in pretty closely to your last idea.

You have our word – we won't be spreading any tales to other teams. We're committed to our alliance of peace and science with you.

We hope you get a chance to look more fully at our MAAP II proposal soon, as we think it addresses some of the biggest concerns here. Of course, we're happy to explain any points that seem unclear, or to hear any counter-proposals you have.

Here's hoping that the Middle Ages are times of great prosperity for both our peoples!

- General_W, Speaking with the voice of The Council
 
Does anybody find it alarming that they aren't responding perhaps we should remind them that they could build up quiker, and tell them how to calculate power rating showing them we are not much stronger.
 
Yes, I agree we should tell (and keep informing) FREE how "weak" BABE is so they concentrate on science. :old:

In contrast to SABER we want them to focus on development, right?
 
Proposed note to FREE:

Dear FREE friends,

We have some happy news! After some diplomatic fancy-work, BABE has agreed to sign a peace treaty with us to last for 30 turns (from turn 99). We're obviously breathing a sigh of relief. We still don't fully trust them, but this seems to be a good indicator that they've got their sights set elsewhere. (Most likely, Saber)

In another bit of good news, we've reached "average" in military ranking compared to BABE. Since our military isn't very impressive, this is a good indicator that BABE is still a ways away from being able to stage an invasion…. We wonder what they're doing?!? Perhaps we'll all get lucky, and they'll just squander their Great Lighthouse advantage.

Anyway, wanted to keep you in the loop on everything that was happening.
Looking forward to getting your feedback (or signature?) on the MAAP II agreement. Are you getting closer to a decision?

All the best,
Your brothers in bluish,

General_W, speaking with the voice of The Council

Thoughts?
 
I think something more of a nudge would have been in order, but I guess I'm just impatient. ;) Looks good.
 
What are the implications of us telling FREE about our peace treaty? We don't have to tell them, I guess. I'm not in favor or against, just uncertain. Also, we may not need to say it's for 30 turns. Some aspects I can imagine:

Will it make them (= FREE) more eager to sign MAAP2? Possibly, the treaty gives them some security, and they may fear we will shop elsewhere. Actually, I am beginning to fear they are shopping elsewhere. On the other hand, any piece of information is a distraction.

Will it make them feel more secure? Unlikely, it means one target less.

Will it make them suspicious about our motives? Perhaps, they don't know what our relations with BABE are. Maybe we can point out that it's just peace and nothing else?

Will it persuade them to focus on research? Perhaps not, they will want to defend themselves. The power rating would be some relief (and does not give any info to BABE, if FREE is passing anything on.) Maybe we should reinforce the idea that SABER is the most likely victim?
 
Well, first of all, I don't think FREE is probably active enough to think as deeply on this as you have! :lol:

But for what's it worth, here was my reasoning…

Question: Why hasn't FREE responded?
  • DAA unbalanced… They aren't sure they want to sign the DAA agreement to spend that kind of money on us, when they think it's unlikely they'll ever be attacked
  • Dating over Marriage … Trying to figure out a way to trade with BABE and still trade with us on a less exclusive basis
  • Low Participation

Looking at those options, in relation to this letter…

If the concern is that we're way more likely to profit from the DAA than FREE is, this letter helps, by making it clear we're less of a target… and by implication, they're more of a target.
Result = FREE is more likely to sign the full MAAP II.

If the problem is they think they can get away with a less restrictive deal and get some better stuff outside of stict monogamy with us… then letting them know that we're on friendly terms with BABE as well as friendly terms with Saber… all adds up to us still having more friends (dating possibilities?) than they do.
Result = FREE is more likely to sign the full MAAP II.

If the problem is low participation (as I suspect), then we just need to be patient, and send gentle reminders from time to time… ala this letter.

How this letter will affect their mindset on building military vs infrastructure is hard to say… and ultimately not as important, I'd think. We want FREE strong… but not that strong! :lol: So even if we COULD predict how they'd react (which I don't think we can) – we'd only end up in a debate about how strong is too strong… and I don't know the answer to that either.

Anyway, bottom line, I think this letter with the notification is a good move for us.
(But no surprise there, that's why I wrote it.)

I don't think we're in a big hurry to send this (except Niklas ;) ) – so we can certainly debate any of these points further.

:salute:
 
I share some of zyxy's uncertainty but I doubt FREE is looking elsewhere to trade. Who are they going to trade with? No one else has techs they need. They'd have to gift someone to the middle ages to replace us as a trading partner. I doubt they are scared of BABE since they can make ten shield spearmen. I think the General makes a good point about them be more amenable to DAA if we tell them we have peace with BABE.

So, all in all, I'd send the letter and concentrate on deciding how big a military we want, etc.

We have a Bridge treaty in place, don't we? How long does that last? Doesn't it get us to education and gunpowder? :confused: If so, then we have time to get MAAP II in place. With our BABE peace treaty we also have a bit of time to get DAA ratified. I see no reason to worry about our marriage just yet. ;)
 
Perhaps we should offer a 441 turn peace treaty to them to secure some peace.
 
I don't think we're in a big hurry to send this (except Niklas ;) ) – so we can certainly debate any of these points further.

No need to wait AFAIAC, it probably matters little exactly what we write.
 
Perhaps we should offer a 441 turn peace treaty to them to secure some peace.

Not a good idea IMO. We have no idea what will happen during a space race or how future alliances will end up. Age long peace with some end of treaty warning system is fine.
 
Why shouldn't we.
If we were going to win by conquest we could already win by controlling other teams Islands. (80 percent of the land this would equel.
We could win in a space race. (Already are number one plan.)
 
Interesting. I had actually thought cubs suggestion was joking, but he's serious.

It's possible - the problem is that I think that, at some point, there is a decent chance that it will be use vs. FREE to win the game, perhaps via space race, and we are gonna want to attack them.

I think one age at a time is good. There is a lot of this age to go!!
 
making such a long term treaty is like saying "never". :nono:

It would not be serious and both would know it. It only makes the treaty less valuable because you know that it will be broken one day.

Signing a peace treaty for a given time IS serious and between the two of us completely beyond doubt.
Don't lower the reliability of those contracts by overdoing it. :old:
 
How about 100
 
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