Revolutions

This is brilliant

Linking stability to social policies goes a long way towards establishing a sense that the policies actually constitute a form of government (which was a sorely missed element). I'm still trying to wrap my head around the dynamics of internal relations and the formulaic relationship to the overall scheme, however, I'm having a great time testing this.

Couple of issues...

1) I'm seeing a conflict with (likely) some element of the cUP. I suspect it may be whoward's trade panel element. Depending upon load order, either Revolutions' stability panel and tooltip don't function (present but data is static at 0), or his trade panel has incomplete entries/misaligned rows etc. Trying to sort that out, but the primitive method of mod load ordering in game is giving me pain. Any insight appreciated. Just returning to CiV and I've forgotten all the relevant lua items which may conflict.

2) I understand that with the revolution component, peace time tile flipping shouldn't be active. I left that box ticked in my present game and it is occurring. Not sure what's going on there and whether I should have manually disabled the option (or whether it matters).

Thanks for this and all your other mods as well.

edit: using v4 from the workshop and cUP for Gods and Kings (along with GEM) and most of your other mods

heinous_hat said:

This is brilliant

Linking stability to social policies goes a long way towards establishing a sense that the policies actually constitute a form of government (which was a sorely missed element). I'm still trying to wrap my head around the dynamics of internal relations and the formulaic relationship to the overall scheme, however, I'm having a great time testing this.

Couple of issues...

1) I'm seeing a conflict with (likely) some element of the cUP. I suspect it may be whoward's trade panel element. Depending upon load order, either Revolutions' stability panel and tooltip don't function (present but data is static at 0), or his trade panel has incomplete entries/misaligned rows etc. Trying to sort that out, but the primitive method of mod load ordering in game is giving me pain. Any insight appreciated. Just returning to CiV and I've forgotten all the relevant lua items which may conflict.

2) I understand that with the revolution component, peace time tile flipping shouldn't be active. I left that box ticked in my present game and it is occurring. Not sure what's going on there and whether I should have manually disabled the option (or whether it matters).

Thanks for this and all your other mods as well.

edit: using v4 from the workshop and cUP for Gods and Kings (along with GEM) and most of your other mods

Click to expand...

I have the same conflict issue between CUP and this mod!!! I had seen the problems you mentioned in your post, but never realized they were due to these two mods having a conflict! That is the problem with having so many mods - it becomes almost impossible to figure out which mod is in conflict with which other mod without actually knowing the mods very well... Checking by trial and error would take forever and if the loading order also has an influence it is hopeless... So I am glad you found the conflict!

MAMeingast said:

I have the same conflict issue between CUP and this mod!!! I had seen the problems you mentioned in your post, but never realized they were due to these two mods having a conflict! That is the problem with having so many mods - it becomes almost impossible to figure out which mod is in conflict with which other mod without actually knowing the mods very well... Checking by trial and error would take forever and if the loading order also has an influence it is hopeless... So I am glad you found the conflict!

Click to expand...

Just a guess currently. I posted over in Thal's forum as well and saw someone else describe similar behavior with whoward's trade panel, though he doesn't mention any other mods in place. But that looks at least partly complicit in this case.

Gedemon said:

Yes I will do that for most of my mods, not right now (some updates to do), sorry, but during next week I hope.

Click to expand...

I am just wondering if your update has gone on civfanatics yet? I think your mod is terrific and think it adds a lot of depth to the game. As a mac user, I would love to play it with G&K.

Thanks!

So wait, if your empire is unstable enough, will cities declare independence? And if they do, are they treated like city states, or a seperate empire, with them being able to expand and declare war, and so on. Having a feature like that would be incredibly awesome, as it would not only prevent you from simply conquering everything near you/spam cities all over the world, it would be extremely historically accurate.

It would also be cool if you could 'absorb' cities, as in cultrally dominate them.

Also. I think techs should be something that spreads from city to city. As in, when you discover a tech, its benefits only apply to the city with the most beakers per turn in your empire, but will quickly spread across your empires cities, especially if you have a road system in your empire. Techs could also spread to other civs, albeit slower than your own.

(reserved)

New version uploaded on Civfanatics and Steam Workshop

v.5 (Oct, 21 2012)
- Level happiness for all difficulties from warlord to deity
- AI use Prince difficulty level for hapiness
- Separatist are converted from all culture group in a city, not only the owner culture group (prevent conquered cities to produce more foreign culture than your when separatist are produced)

You must update the Cultural Diffusion mod too.

Very nice mod Gedemon.
Could you use this to eliminate the Occupied and Puppet system entirely? I've always found it unrealistic that a city captured in 1000BC will eternally have either Occupied or Puppet status when in reality it could be gradually assimilated to your empire over years. Using your mods this shouldn't be necessary - conquered cities would start with a lot of unrest due to having 100% foreign Culture that you're at war with, so you'd have to leave a garrison there, but over many year's they'd become gradually assimilated to your Culture and be a regular city, with the details of this modified by the Policies you've set.

Hurray! Thanks


I've had this in with my usual mod collection for many months. Communitas is the only other element affecting gameplay. They seem to work well together (with some obvious balance issues to be resolved in that case).

Couple of questions, mostly relating to the diffusion aspect:

1) How exactly is my own culture spread calculated? Without some greater UI tip, I'm uncertain how to improve it. I had presumed it was derived from local output. If I build local culture and amplifiers, does that work as one might expect, driving the tile ratios in my favor?

2) What are the preferred options for tile acquisition when starting a game in Advanced Setup? If I play with acquire off and flip on, I still acquire unowned tiles during peace time. If I play with both off, that doesn't seem to happen. Something seems amiss there.

With regard to both questions, I suppose my current disposition is to play without peaceful tile acquisition so as not to devalue the regular mechanism for that (unless this system can be made to completely replace the vanilla method). With an event system that occasionally gifts tiles (such as in Thal's mod), that seems like enough of a 'random' reward in that area (at cost). The notifier spam also gets to be overwhelming. 'Flip' might be nice though for creating some border tension and driving a local cold/culture war. I know others have stated they don't like the flip option, but I think it adds something given that one can actually influence the spread by building culture. What's your take on all this?

Thanks greatly for the update. Very nice work

edit: agreed on the occupy/puppet issue mentioned above. It would make more sense for a culture/rev system to cover that completely in the future, as with border growth.

Whoops, missed the update to Cultural Diffusion. Time to start over

I got something interesting...
I'm using a fiction civ.
Same for other civs.

And this is what i get.

I got alot of cities but none of them shown. I also have had Culture Relation but nothing happen.

Mars83 said:

I got something interesting...
I'm using a fiction civ.
Same for other civs.

And this is what i get.

I got alot of cities but none of them shown. I also have had Culture Relation but nothing happen.

Click to expand...

That's likely just a UI conflict. What's the mod you're running that shows *IGA* in the top panel?

I have a problem. When I save the mod and load the save, the game doesn't recognize the revolutions and the cultural diffusion mod. Do you know what is the problem? Can you help me?

ArnoldI said:

I have a problem. When I save the mod and load the save, the game doesn't recognize the revolutions and the cultural diffusion mod. Do you know what is the problem? Can you help me?

Click to expand...

Are you loading the save from within the game? If so, try loading from the main (mod) menu instead. There is a general issue with reloading a modded game while it's running. Just a guess...

Are you loading the save from within the game? If so, try loading from the main (mod) menu instead. There is a general issue with reloading a modded game while it's running. Just a guess...

Click to expand...

Yes, I am. I tried to load it directly from the main menu. Then I went to the mods menu, started a new game and loaded it from them. I think the computer doesn't recognize the mod as an essential part of the save as when I clicked in "mods" to see what mods were required to play that save it just showed the mod of the civilization that I was using.

heinous_hat said:

That's likely just a UI conflict. What's the mod you're running that shows *IGA* in the top panel?

Click to expand...

thats IGE:
InGame Editor

As always is good practice, install this mod (along with the required Custom Advanced Startup and Cultural Diffusion mods) alone and verify functionality.

You might try clearing the cache and moduserdata folders in your user folder beforehand (doing so with the latter may break old saves that depend on that data btw).

When you activate the mods, select Custom Startup, Cultural Diffusion and then Revolutions (in that order). After you see everything working, then try adding additional mods (always with a fresh game). Hope that helps

heinous_hat said:

As always is good practice, install this mod (along with the required Custom Advanced Startup and Cultural Diffusion mods) alone and verify functionality.

You might try clearing the cache and moduserdata folders in your user folder beforehand (doing so with the latter may break old saves that depend on that data btw).

When you activate the mods, select Custom Startup, Cultural Diffusion and then Revolutions (in that order). After you see everything working, then try adding additional mods (always with a fresh game). Hope that helps

Click to expand...

Its not IGE but my guess goes with Echoes of Ages and City-State Diplo. With EOA and CSD off it looks normal.

Will this mod eventually support other map types. For example I love using the perfect world mod which currently can't be used if i'm using the custom advanced setup screen.

orlanth said:

Very nice mod Gedemon.
Could you use this to eliminate the Occupied and Puppet system entirely? I've always found it unrealistic that a city captured in 1000BC will eternally have either Occupied or Puppet status when in reality it could be gradually assimilated to your empire over years. Using your mods this shouldn't be necessary - conquered cities would start with a lot of unrest due to having 100% foreign Culture that you're at war with, so you'd have to leave a garrison there, but over many year's they'd become gradually assimilated to your Culture and be a regular city, with the details of this modified by the Policies you've set.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure that I want to entirely remove the occupied/puppet system but merging it more with the Revolution mod is a good idea.

Following your proposition, I can make conquered cities to keep a majority of the previous culture groups, just giving the tiles around a majority to the conqueror culture group (to prevent tiles flipping too fast if the option is activated) and if the player wait long enough for his CG to gain majority in the city, it could be annexed and could become non-occupied without a courthouse.

Now, how do we balance that ?

At this moment puppet have a stability bonus and occupied cities have a penalty that could be removed with the courthouse. In which case would someone want to annex the city immediately ?

maybe I can give the owner culture a penalty in the city as long as it is puppeted (like a smaller conversion rate) ?

heinous_hat said:

1) How exactly is my own culture spread calculated? Without some greater UI tip, I'm uncertain how to improve it. I had presumed it was derived from local output. If I build local culture and amplifiers, does that work as one might expect, driving the tile ratios in my favor?

Click to expand...

It's a bit complicated, and I agree that the mods need to provide more feedback to the users via the interface. But the UI is the most time consuming coding for me... And sometime very difficult to do while keeping compatibility with other mods.

Now for the question itself:

Culture is "created" in cities, the output value for a culture group (CG) is based on the actual value of that CG on the city tile and relative to the city population. The civ5 culture from buildings and the city itself give a bonus for the city owner CG, but adopting liberty will provide the bonus to all CG existing in the city.

Cities also "convert" a small fraction of all foreign CG to the owner CG. The tradition tree provide bonus to the conversion rate, as well as library, university and public school.

heinous_hat said:

2) What are the preferred options for tile acquisition when starting a game in Advanced Setup? If I play with acquire off and flip on, I still acquire unowned tiles during peace time. If I play with both off, that doesn't seem to happen. Something seems amiss there.

Click to expand...

I'll have to look at the code here, thanks.

heinous_hat said:

With regard to both questions, I suppose my current disposition is to play without peaceful tile acquisition so as not to devalue the regular mechanism for that (unless this system can be made to completely replace the vanilla method). With an event system that occasionally gifts tiles (such as in Thal's mod), that seems like enough of a 'random' reward in that area (at cost). The notifier spam also gets to be overwhelming. 'Flip' might be nice though for creating some border tension and driving a local cold/culture war. I know others have stated they don't like the flip option, but I think it adds something given that one can actually influence the spread by building culture. What's your take on all this?

Click to expand...

I play on huge map, and I like to have the Cultural Diffusion tile acquisition as a "boost" to normal culture system.

For the tile flipping, ideally I'd like to have it available as a diplomatic modifier and trade option (block with another civ, buy from when your CG is high enough, acquire with peace treaty, etc...)

The DLL may be required for this.

Mars83 said:

Its not IGE but my guess goes with Echoes of Ages and City-State Diplo. With EOA and CSD off it looks normal.

Click to expand...

I use CSD without problem with Revolutions.

gunslinger6792 said:

I appoligize if this has already been stated by do i have to have the cultural diffusion mod activated will using this mod? im afraid of the AI like france stealing my land due to their surperior culture.

Click to expand...

Yes, you most use the cultural diffusion mod with this one, but you can set tile flipping off if you want.

edit:

gunslinger6792 said:

Will this mod eventually support other map types. For example I love using the perfect world mod which currently can't be used if i'm using the custom advanced setup screen.

Click to expand...

It's not listed in the map types ?

I stand corrected either I just didn't scroll down for the map options or it didn't work the first time. Either way perfect world and other map options are now showing just goes to show you should double check before posting about a problem.