SteamDB: "Bison" Depot??

The speculation must continue! I just hope this doesn't turn out to be a redone scramble for the new world scenario with the Maya, Shoshone, Portugal, Dutch. Plus wouldn't that required players to have both expansions? It would be cool, but I would like even more playable Amerindian civs in the scenario (Mapuche, Chibcha/Muisca, Tupi, Taino, Muskogee/Creek or Cherokee, Algonquians, Sioux, Haida/or other Pacific Northwest group) plus many citystates to represent other tribes. Empty land in the Americas was mainly non-existent. Some area did have less population though, but I dislike representing those people as barbarians. At least change the design of the "barbs" to look native.

Guandao said:

At least change the design of the "barbs" to look native.

Click to expand...

This will definitely offend lots of natives. Yes, barbs are uncivilized, but if you look at most natives, they were already civilized, even before the Europeans arrived and killed them off. I'm talking about natives from Australia, the Americas, Africa, Siberia, and everywhere else where there were natives.

I think what Guandao is saying is that the barbarians represent native inhabitants of the area across the game as a whole. This isn't a comment on any indigenous populations on Earth, it's just how the game handles them. In a scenario like the Conquest of the New World, it makes no sense for the native inhabitants of the land to be depicted as Germanic, so wouldn't it be better to have them depicted as indigenous inhabitants of America in the scenario? Call them 'Native tribes resisting European colonisation' if you want, Barbarians just sounds cooler.

Pouakai said:

I think what Guandao is saying is that the barbarians represent native inhabitants of the area across the game as a whole. This isn't a comment on any indigenous populations on Earth, it's just how the game handles them. In a scenario like the Conquest of the New World, it makes no sense for the native inhabitants of the land to be depicted as Germanic, so wouldn't it be better to have them depicted as indigenous inhabitants of America in the scenario? Call them 'Native tribes resisting European colonisation' if you want, Barbarians just sounds cooler.

Click to expand...

That is what I meant. Who's a barbarian depends on the culture/ethnic group's point of view. For the ancient Greeks, it was non-Greek speakers, including the Persians. For the Romans, it was the Germanic/Celtic/Iberian groups they fought to expand their republic and eventually empire. For the Chinese, it was everyone around them who weren't Chinese. For the Aztecs, it was the nomadic groups they labeled the Chichimeca. For the 19th century Europeans, it was non-Europeans. But many of the people labeled "barbarians" or another equivalent term did had villages/cities/ settlements or farmed, while others were nomadic/migratory.

I suppose you could rename barbarians bandits, which fits a lot better in my opinion.

I've long thought that a barb camp that remains undisturbed for an extended period should eventually become a new city state (subject only to the 4 tile placement restriction). At highest levels, given how quickly the AI clears camps, they will probably only appear on remote islands, but that is OK.

Originally, I might have had a problem with it. But that was back when city-states were a fixed number. After Austria and Venice, those complaints have been married and bought off. There are probably some balancing issues that would have to be hashed out, though. It's also probably a bit more studio resource intensive than appropriate for a patch (strikes me as something one would find in an expansion).

Browd said:

I've long thought that a barb camp that remains undisturbed for an extended period should eventually become a new city state (subject only to the 4 tile placement restriction). At highest levels, given how quickly the AI clears camps, they will probably only appear on remote islands, but that is OK.

Click to expand...

If not a city-state, then at least some kind of higher level barb camp that has an increased spawn rate, defensive bonus, and loot worth.

It would make the settlement of the New World a more bloody affair at least.

Maybe then barbarians could actually take lightly-defended cities for a change. As it stands, CivV barbarians are a non-issue to your cities, even with Raging Barbs.

Sonereal said:

If not a city-state, then at least some kind of higher level barb camp that has an increased spawn rate, defensive bonus, and loot worth.

It would make the settlement of the New World a more bloody affair at least.

Maybe then barbarians could actually take lightly-defended cities for a change. As it stands, CivV barbarians are a non-issue to your cities, even with Raging Barbs.

Click to expand...

Another good feature to add for a Colonization oriented expansion pack! Seriously Firaxis, it's was a BIG part of World's history and you barely got anythingl ike that.

TheKingOfBigOz said:

Another good feature to add for a Colonization oriented expansion pack! Seriously Firaxis, it's was a BIG part of World's history and you barely got anythingl ike that.

Click to expand...

Really, you could go a long way with the mechanics we have now in BNW. I think if you set up the mapscripts so some luxury resources will only appear in the New World and create a new type of internal trade route (or piggyback the existing ones), you could catch the gist of the early modern period.

The internal trade route, whether piggybacking off the Granary/Workshop internal routes, or just creating an entirely new route (I prefer the former), would increase the market value (based on the resources the sender has the receiver doesn't) of the end point to make trading in that city more attractive.

Then again, I also already like the idea that a city has an increased attractiveness based on the trade routes terminating at it already. If five cities with a variety of luxury goods are trading their wares in Stockholm, clearly Stockholm should be made more attractive because of that as well. When trading with a city, the system already takes into account the resource difference between Point A and B. It could be possible to take into account the difference between Point A and Point C if Point C is also trading with Point B.

Would make trade wars extremely exciting at least.

The last paragraph is off on a tangent, but the first two paragraphs seem doable.

B.I.S.O.N. is the Principality of Zeon's new superweapon. Beta Ion Synthesis by Overloading with Neutrons. It bombards atoms with neutrons to make them unstable, and fires the decay product (helium nucleae) at relativistic speeds. An atomic shotgun, if you will.

TheKingOfBigOz said:

Another good feature to add for a Colonization oriented expansion pack! Seriously Firaxis, it's was a BIG part of World's history and you barely got anythingl ike that.

Click to expand...

It's a big part of modern history because it happened so recently, it is however a small part of world history.

Unless you mean colonization in a general sense rather than a western sense, in which case we already have it in the form of buying the alliance of city states, military conquest and settlement.

The only thing lacking about colonization in this game is the incentive to do so. There isn't a drop off in GNP or happiness or anything that explicitly requires you to take advantage of the resources of other civs, and the penalties for trying to do so are often too big to cope with.

That ends up with a stalemate which means more civs last longer into the game, which is good for game-play reasons, but bad for simulating colonization.

Really, all colonization would add would be a certain winner even earlier in the game. I don't think CiV has the capacity to involve it in the manner you'd like with the current way the game is set up and retain any sense of competitiveness or fun.

It's now approximately one month ago, that 'Bison' first emerged in the depots list.
Does anybody know how long it usually takes from a first appearance to the announcement of a new DLC? Isn't it about time to happen?

Louis XXIV said:

Originally, I might have had a problem with it. But that was back when city-states were a fixed number. After Austria and Venice, those complaints have been married and bought off. There are probably some balancing issues that would have to be hashed out, though. It's also probably a bit more studio resource intensive than appropriate for a patch (strikes me as something one would find in an expansion).

Click to expand...

Having a mechanic that allows new City States to be added to the game dynamically might even be a necessary feature in order to help balance out the presence of Austria and Venice. I've had one or two games in which BOTH Austria and Venice appeared, and in the cases in which they start on different continents, there are almost NO city states left by the end of the game. So the Diplomatic Victory would have been decided by which Civ has built the Forbidden Palace and/or researched Globalization. Fortunately, I won a culture victory before the World Leader vote happened. But since the presence of CSs is so important to the diplo victory now that civs are back to voting for themselves, it might be prudent to include a mechanic to allow CSs to be added to the game over time, in order to keep the number of CSs consistent throughout the course of the game.

Kind of an off-topic tangent: what happens if a Civ's unhappiness spawns rebels, and the rebels capture a city? Does it become a "barbarian city"? Perhaps that could be another way to create a new City State!

Deggial said:

It's now approximately one month ago, that 'Bison' first emerged in the depots list.
Does anybody know how long it usually takes from a first appearance to the announcement of a new DLC? Isn't it about time to happen?

Click to expand...

as far as I know "One World" which I think was the code world for "Brave New World" appeared as early as January, and was offiically announced mid March.

4-6 weeks of baseless conjecture to go!

How about an ant war scenario? That could be fun.

Magma_Dragoon said:

4-6 weeks of baseless conjecture to go!

How about an ant war scenario? That could be fun.

Click to expand...

Link to video.

Couldn't help but thing of that

And after months of months of speculation, hopefulness, and wild new ideas roaming about from all directions, Firaxis finally comes out and proclaims:

"Nah, it's just a map pack; maps shaped like animals."

Talcove said:

And after months of months of speculation, hopefulness, and wild new ideas roaming about from all directions, Firaxis finally comes out and proclaims:

"Nah, it's just a map pack; maps shaped like animals."

Click to expand...

Because we all know everyone has bison-shaped hole in their souls.

Enrico Swagolo said:

I'm gonna leak what this patch precisely is because I'm so badass, my chest hair is actually my beard. Wait, that doesn't sound that cool at all. Disregard that. Just the completely legit leak below.

M. Bison's Shadaloo/Shadow Law Empire with Bisonopolis as the Capital.

UA : All I want to do is create a perfect genetic soldier/Psycho Powers (team not sure what to call this one) - All Unhappiness reduced by 10%. All units gain experience 15% slower and require 10% more production to be built, but their Strength is increased by 20%. Warmongering penalties doubled, and AI's are twice as likely to declare war on you. After conquering a city, +10% production and gold in the capital for 5 turns.

UU - Shadaloo Fighters - replaces Modern Infantry. Can attack twice per turn. Enemies can't retaliate to the first attack, but they can to the second one. -25% received ranged damage (not Cover I or II, stacks with them fully). +75% experience gain.

UB - Clone Factory - replaces Factory. If a unit of any kind is garrisoned in the city, building another unit of the same kind there costs 50% less production. If any GP is stationed in the city, +20% to generating the same type of GP.


Actually, now that I think about it, Clone Factory sounds like a fun UB to use. Fieraxus plz gibe

Click to expand...

With the intro story as:

For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.