Deity a step too far? (BNW)

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Crudgington

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I started playing Civ back in May, hadn't played at all before that. Worked my way through the levels and decided to try Immortal as Babs, and won a thoroughly unconvincing science victory, so tried again, and won ... errr.... a thoroughly unconvincing science victory. I mean I wasn't even a third of the size of some these guys.(Playing Pangea)
In between I went on to Deity and tried maybe 25 starts, and I never even got past turn 80 because the computer was always so dominant geographically and often militarily.
So I guess my question is how do I know when I have something worth pursuing as a start as I think I have become demoralised on Deity, and my victories on immortal prove you don't even need to be No 1 for literacy at the end, as long as you use GS and RA wisely.
Are there any key markers that I need to be hitting in order to win a science victory on deity? Once I have done it, it will be back to the start with a different civ and a different victory but for now I just want to beat the 'big one'.
 
I'm pretty sure the biggest advantage the AI gets on deity is their starting units. So even if you're a long way behind, if you set yourself a decent platform you can catch up. It definitely doesn't get any smarter.
 
Just stick it out. You will find you still win the same way as you do on Immortal.

Unlike chess software where the AI actually gets better at higher difficulty, Civ V stays just as dumb and gives the AI handicaps. On Deity, the AI is able to tech and build faster by a small margin over Immortal, the huge gap comes from the AI getting the extra city and free workers so it can start with higher population and improve stuff right away.

I find Deity un-fun most of the time because it rubs my face in poor programing...
 
Are you losing because you find yourself really far behind, or because you're losing your capital? If you're just far behind, I'd suggest staying in the game longer and focusing a lot on science. Go tradition for the additional, well, everything amazing that tradition provides you, including the city strength defense bonus. Deity is designed to give the AI huge bonuses at the start of the game, so the earliest you'll catch up the renaissance, and that's only with a really amazing start. You can be two eras behind at one point and still catch up by the end with good play. If you just want to win deity, I'd suggest Poland as a civ of choice. Poland is ridiculous!
 
Size no longer correlates linearly with science in BNW, so there is no need to panic just because an AI has 10 cities by 80 turns :lol: Stick it out and you will find that in BNW 3 or 4 tall cities can beat 20 spammed cities in science quite easily.
 
Ok well I stayed with a game I would have usually ditched and even though Alexander won a science victory at turn 307 I wasn't that far behind. It shocked me that even though I appeared to be miles behind I still got porcelain tower and hubble.
What is encouraging is that I got that close even though my growth stalled at 20 pop and I didn't have one cs ally. A few tweaks here and there and I really think its within reach.
 
I've started playing deity since BNW and find all my wins unconvincing. All of my wins have been the usual tradition 4 city, standard everything, SV without EVER going to war. The other VCs seem so far fetched, and I couldn't really afford going to war.

So basically, I don't find Deity fun. I have proven to myself that I could play on the highest level, and now I will go back down one or two levels to when war was actually a thing that was probable.
 
Available land mass is a factor also, try playing on a Highlands large map an the AI will spam out like 80+/- cities while your stuck at 4 due to happiness. A lot of Deity games people talk about are tiny duel maps or some other map type that really limits available land mass.

I just tried a large Deity game as Alex, was trying to get the great people generation trick to work, ( It didn't due to using Alex lol) but I eventually won a Diplo victory while only having 1 city. Talk about an overpowered civ. Easily allied every city state.
 
Immortal to Deity is the hugest leap in difficulty in the game due to Deity being the first level in which the AI starts with a settler.

One option if Deity forces you into an un-fun straight jacket is to stay at Immortal.

Another is attempt to mod the game; say to try to create a Demigod difficulty level between Immortal and Deity.

Science is king; but that's by actually building the science buildings, filling the science slots, and building academies. Very few AIs have high enough science flavors; but if just starting Deity unless you are playing Korea, you may want to turn off the Korean DLC to ensure you don't have to face Korea.
 
The AI usually falls behind in technology in the later eras. So if you build all the science buildings and fill them, adopt rationalism, build the porcelain tower and make RAs, you can take the science lead soon. It may seem hopeless at first but eventually you'll catch up if you prioritize technologies that have the science buildings.
 
Well, I won Deity once, just for the achievement. I picked Huns... against Venice... on Duel. Guess what victory condition? :groucho:
 
:cry:
I was about ten turns away from SV when The Huns and The Indonesians both declared war dumping me 17 into unhappiness and destroying all my caravans. I just don't see how you can build an army AND all the science buildings by turn 250. Im going back to immortal to regroup.:sad:
 
I don't really bother playing on anything above Emperor. To me, anything higher than that is just a big game of catch up. I think the AI advantages spoil the illusion at that point, because I know that any even remotely smart player shouldn't lose with those freebies.
 
JustinianIV said:
I've started playing deity since BNW and find all my wins unconvincing. All of my wins have been the usual tradition 4 city, standard everything, SV without EVER going to war. The other VCs seem so far fetched, and I couldn't really afford going to war.

So basically, I don't find Deity fun. I have proven to myself that I could play on the highest level, and now I will go back down one or two levels to when war was actually a thing that was probable.
Click to expand...

That's kind of how I feel, too. I've only beaten Deity once (and stupid Steam didn't even register the achievement!) because it just doesn't feel fun to me. I'm a wonder whore, so I miss out on one of my favorite in-game pass-times.
 
I just went back to Immortal after STILL having failed to win on deity, and as usual I won, this time a crushing science victory for the Babs by 299( even managed to sneak Borobudur). I will tinker and see which other victories I can orchestrate before AI is threatening any type of win.
It just serves to illustrate my original point that there appears to be a huge leap from Immortal to Deity as I have never NOT won a game on Imm, yet have STILL never won on deity....:cry:
I have been close to victory on Deity a number of times now, but In almost each case the AI has warred me at turn 290-ish and pulled out all my happiness etc. The one game where I held my own, (30 turn war vs Ottomans) I just happened to have Poland as a friend and they beat me to hubble. )
 
Crudgington said:
I just went back to Immortal after STILL having failed to win on deity, and as usual I won, this time a crushing science victory for the Babs by 299( even managed to sneak Borobudur). I will tinker and see which other victories I can orchestrate before AI is threatening any type of win.
It just serves to illustrate my original point that there appears to be a huge leap from Immortal to Deity as I have never NOT won a game on Imm, yet have STILL never won on deity....:cry:
I have been close to victory on Deity a number of times now, but In almost each case the AI has warred me at turn 290-ish and pulled out all my happiness etc. The one game where I held my own, (30 turn war vs Ottomans) I just happened to have Poland as a friend and they beat me to hubble. )
Click to expand...

What I did in order to get better at Deity, was to carefully watch Let's Play Deity videos of various YouTubers and take screenshots of their milestones in each game. I still kept a few from one of Moriarte's games, I could pm them to you if you like. But, really, try to take notes from the "Deity guys" when watching their videos. That way, you'll know what to aim for in your own games.
 
azzaman333 said:
I'm pretty sure the biggest advantage the AI gets on deity is their starting units. So even if you're a long way behind, if you set yourself a decent platform you can catch up. It definitely doesn't get any smarter.
Click to expand...

Actually I found the AI's extra starting settler to be the biggest reason Deity is tougher than Immortal and not their military units.

At this level, the tactics have to include using the AIs advantages against them. (Take advantage of AIs starting tech lead via trade routes)

But personaly I much prefer Immortal since there's more flexibility in tactics that will still win.
 
Crudgington said:
I just went back to Immortal after STILL having failed to win on deity, and as usual I won, this time a crushing science victory for the Babs by 299( even managed to sneak Borobudur). I will tinker and see which other victories I can orchestrate before AI is threatening any type of win.
It just serves to illustrate my original point that there appears to be a huge leap from Immortal to Deity as I have never NOT won a game on Imm, yet have STILL never won on deity....:cry:
I have been close to victory on Deity a number of times now, but In almost each case the AI has warred me at turn 290-ish and pulled out all my happiness etc. The one game where I held my own, (30 turn war vs Ottomans) I just happened to have Poland as a friend and they beat me to hubble. )
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're playing Babylon a lot. If deity is getting frustrating but winning SVs on immortal with Babylon is getting stale you could change it up and play a different civ. Babylon is strong but is also one of the most boring civs in the game. Especially since comp bows were added. A science civ w/ an ancient UU and a pretty bland UB make for very poor replayability. Try somebody fun but still strong like Arabia, Austria or Poland. I'd rank all three right up there with Babylon but they have more interesting uniques to play with.

Took me a while to win deity too. My first deity victory was with Spain. Got lucky on natural wonders found GBR fairly close to me and Sri Prada too. Germany got pretty ticked at me for settling Sri Prada so I got stuck in a number of wars with him but was still able to beat Sejong to an SV. He was actually ahead of me so I bought all his aluminum and allied all the CSs with aluminum too, that slowed him down enough to get my ship off first. Sometimes winning on deity can be as much about stopping other civs from getting their VCs as it is about getting to your own first.
 
VicRatlhead5199 said:
Sounds like you're playing Babylon a lot. If deity is getting frustrating but winning SVs on immortal with Babylon is getting stale you could change it up and play a different civ. Babylon is strong but is also one of the most boring civs in the game. Especially since comp bows were added. A science civ w/ an ancient UU and a pretty bland UB make for very poor replayability. Try somebody fun but still strong like Arabia, Austria or Poland. I'd rank all three right up there with Babylon but they have more interesting uniques to play with.

Took me a while to win deity too. My first deity victory was with Spain. Got lucky on natural wonders found GBR fairly close to me and Sri Prada too. Germany got pretty ticked at me for settling Sri Prada so I got stuck in a number of wars with him but was still able to beat Sejong to an SV. He was actually ahead of me so I bought all his aluminum and allied all the CSs with aluminum too, that slowed him down enough to get my ship off first. Sometimes winning on deity can be as much about stopping other civs from getting their VCs as it is about getting to your own first.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input.( And to others who have contributed) Its fair to say I need a change.
 
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