Magister Modmod

Oh nothing just something about hell freezing over :D
Like hell freezing over? More like Illians going to a barbecue beach party!

But 100% awesome to finally see the fabled Magister modmod! :D

Cheers, LT.
 
I played as Clan of Embers, built the Eternal flame, and was not able to build the BhallOrcs ... :(
inability to build the bhallorcs is probably the easiest bug to find so far, or am I just doing something wrong?

so ... what ARE the requirements for Stir from Slumber ritual now?

If you have Fire III and are standing above Acheron's bones ... no button shows up. Then you research Divine Essence, and a Rezz Acheron button shows up greyed out. I would assume once Stir from Slumber is completed that this button/spell would then be available.

Also, there is an Extra Dragon Bones with water mana inside it. Are we going to see the missing Blue dragon eventually? and Will it be available to all like Acheron, or perhaps a specialty civ, like Lanun, Hippus, or something.

and why are the Kurios versions of Theater of Dreams, Eyes and Ears Network, and Library of Oghma so much more expensive? Kurios's biggest weakness is overall lack of hammers anyways, and these special versions do nothing extra for the Kurios.

Also, if The Orcs build Eternal Flame, can other civs not build their version and Vice-Versa? I suppose this goes for all wonders with a civ-specific Duplicate.

Odio only requires a unit of level 6 as well as the Rage technology, compared to Brigit which requires Fanatacism and a level 15 unit. Also, Odio's Rage spell at least currently appears to not work. However, the Ira creation does work ... and these Ira's seem to be permanent. (again, only lv6 and rage??)

Also, magic resistance can no longer be bought normally (through level up) although I would assume can still be aquired through the Force II spell.
 
That new Spirit III spell, which the Elohim Councelors also have, gives the Elohim an incentive to raise the AC by making them able to quickly return their affected units back to normal. That's another example of seemingly lore-following mechanics encouraging counter-lore strategies.
 
well, but thats just one part of the AC, and u can only have 4 councilors, and they are relatively weak, and it requires the rage technology.

anyways, I like how the mod places the lore, and roleplay value, at a priority.
 
Okay ... a few things as a bulletPoint Re-Illustration

1. Stir from Slumber -cant build it
2. Bhall Orcs - cant build them
3. Odio - Level 6?!?!?! why not level 15?
 
well, but thats just one part of the AC, and u can only have 4 councilors, and they are relatively weak, and it requires the rage technology.

I still don't like that small incentive. In general, I think that we really need more roleplaying incentives.

A suggestion: Eidolons, Paladins, etc. should abandon you on alignment change. The Priests (Not High Priests, they should abandon on religion) should abandon you on alignment change, too.

The Malakim need some incentive not to Spring their deserts. They are meant to be desert boys, not floodplain boys, after all.
 
I played as Clan of Embers, built the Eternal flame, and was not able to build the BhallOrcs ... :(
inability to build the bhallorcs is probably the easiest bug to find so far, or am I just doing something wrong?

I added the Bhall-Orcs before I decided to give the Clan an identical but earlier wonder, in hopes of them getting these units earlier. It seems I forgot to change their building requirement to the UB or building class.

so ... what ARE the requirements for Stir from Slumber ritual now?

If you have Fire III and are standing above Acheron's bones ... no button shows up. Then you research Divine Essence, and a Rezz Acheron button shows up greyed out. I would assume once Stir from Slumber is completed that this button/spell would then be available.

Stir from Slumber should only require the Divine Essence tech.

Completing Stir from Slumber should allow the dragon resurrection spells, but I think I forgot to test to see if it works.

Also, there is an Extra Dragon Bones with water mana inside it. Are we going to see the missing Blue dragon eventually? and Will it be available to all like Acheron, or perhaps a specialty civ, like Lanun, Hippus, or something.

I was not planning to add a Blue Dragon, largely because I did not want to make up a name for such an important character only to have Kael later reveal it to be wrong.

Now I'm thinking I might introduce the Blue Dragon, allowing any civ following the Overlords to revive him.

What do you think about this as a possible 'pedia entry?
Spoiler :
The Gentle One. The Guardian of the Placid Sea. The Scarecrow of the Coward God. The Neutered-Guard-Dog of the Waves. Such were the appellations recorded in the oldest annals to refer to the beast whose name mortals had forgotten before the rise of Patria, if they ever knew it at all.

While gods and dragons warred across Creation, Danalin dwelt among his favored people, with this pet safe at his feet. He had been made as a sign to other gods that Danalin could defend his followers if they encroached upon his sacred waters. There were other beasts as well, but the Blue Dragon appeared most able to project the might of the sea onto land if need be.

Danalin and Sucellus were not dragged into the Godswar until near its end, so their beasts saw little action. The Great Blue Dragon fought only 4 days in the war before a truce was called, during which time he did nothing really worth recording. He never turned the tide of a single battle in that age, and rarely dared to lead any assault himself. His only claim to fame was that he was the first beast to retreat when the great truce was called, and was the first to leave Erebus after the signing of the Compact. In Kylorin’s early armies, “Blue Dragon” became a jocular synonym for coward or paper tiger. That would change.

Incomprehensible omens, visions, dreams of torment too horrid to describe, and prophecies that left the prophets catatonic were becoming almost commonplace in the era of the Patrian Civil War. Many signs pointed to a catastrophe looming over the Aifons, and some even named a date for their demise, but no one knew what it was that threatened them. Kylorin’s former student the Aifon Trenton Majosi travelled all the lands of Erebus seeking salvation for his people, but did could find it. The closest he came was uncovering a ritual that could summon his god into Erebus itself in order to personally protect them from whatever doom awaited them. He began the ritual, but then stopped as he realized he was unleashing a second Godswar upon a helpless Erebus, which might save his family but could doom all those he had met on his travels. Disheartened at his inability to personally help, he awakened his beasts to guard his children from their death.

No man nor god knows what happened on that day. No Aifon soul reaches Danalin’s vault, Arawn’s Netherworld, or any heaven or hell. They simply vanished, or were consumed by something too horrible for words. Of the creatures sent to guard them, only Leviathan and the Blue Dragon remained, and they were never the same. Driven mad by whatever they saw, these once wise and gentle beasts became the most vicious creatures in Creation. Leviathan was confined to the waves, but the dragon roams far and wide, leveling cities in his wake. Neither the Fire Rain nor the completion of Trenton’s ritual by the Illians to summon Mulcarn slowed him down. Some claim that not even the new God of Erebus dared to face him, after seeing him devour the seven Aquilans sent in an effort to recruit the beast.

His rampage could not last forever. In the twenty-third year since the deep freeze, the Beast met his match in Lucar and his horde. Legends tell of six thousand men of valor who saved the world from this abomination, only to find it a pyrrhic victory. Lucar’s spear struck true, but as the dragon breathed it last its heart burst open with not blood, but the greatest flood of water ever seen. The army arrayed against him was washed away in the deluge, which rushed down into the valley below, eroding away a whole maintain range, toppling the last of the Thraxian citadels, and drowning all who lived within. When the waters subsided all signs of civilization had been washed to floor bottom of the Aegean, a sea which is said to have doubled in size on that day.


With the resurrection of Acheron, Drifa, and Abashi, rumors spread that this beast too may live again. Some Cultists claim that the Lords of the Aegean demand he be given new life, that he might lay low all land and expand their domain of the Masters of the Depths.


and why are the Kurios versions of Theater of Dreams, Eyes and Ears Network, and Library of Oghma so much more expensive? Kurios's biggest weakness is overall lack of hammers anyways, and these special versions do nothing extra for the Kurios.

They are actually slightly cheaper, if you include the costs of the prerequisite buildings. The special versions of these wonders are meant only to add the ability for a Sprawling trait civ to complete them on smaller maps.

Also, if The Orcs build Eternal Flame, can other civs not build their version and Vice-Versa? I suppose this goes for all wonders with a civ-specific Duplicate.
Yes, all wonder UBs are of the same BUILDINGCLASS and so prevent the construction of any alternates. When conquered, they will revert to the conquering civ's version of the wonder.

Odio only requires a unit of level 6 as well as the Rage technology, compared to Brigit which requires Fanatacism and a level 15 unit. Also, Odio's Rage spell at least currently appears to not work. However, the Ira creation does work ... and these Ira's seem to be permanent. (again, only lv6 and rage??)


It is supposed to be easier to free Odio, but very hard to control him. When I first made the spell Odio would gain Enraged after every combat with a living unit. I removed that feature though as it was really annoying.

His Iras are generated in xml/C++, the same way as Ravenous Werewolves, which offers no way to limit their duration. I don't mind them being permanent. The Avatar of Wrath has permanent Iras too, although they are limited to 4. (I'm thinking of changing Wrath to use Odios method too.)

It does however seem wrong for humans to keep Iras under control. I'm thinking I'll make Iras start with Crazed, Enraged, and Burning Blood, and make them regain Enraged from combat.

Note that Odio and Iras can be dealt lethal holy damage from the new Spirit III spell.


Level 6 may be too low, but I definitely want to be able to free Odio at a lower level than Brigit. I'm thinking I'll change his level prereq to 11, and Brigit's to 14. (In biblical numerology, those numbers respectively stand for Disorder and Salvation.)

Also, magic resistance can no longer be bought normally (through level up) although I would assume can still be acquired through the Force II spell.

It is working as intended. Force II would be awfully weak if it gave a promotion that could be purchased normally.
 
I haven't changed the units Basium starts with except to give him a worker.


The biggest problem for the Mercurians is that Basium's Convert City spell seems to be broken.
 
i mean i choose to start a new game as basuim. u enabled them. to my surprise i cant make any unit to protect me . and earliest thing is hunting. no defense till i can make hunters
 
Oh yeah, that. I'd forgotten that I made him playable from the beginning right before releasing it. In the most recent broken version I'd removed all the NONE UUs (including basic Warriors as well as all the National Units). I may do that again, even though it did mae the AI Basium built too many basic Warriors.
 
I still don't like that small incentive. In general, I think that we really need more roleplaying incentives.

Well, I don't intend to change it. No other spell represents the Spirit sphere as well.

If anything, I'm likely to make Spirit III also provide immunity to Enraged and Burning Blood, so you can keep control of the casters in order for them to help you keep control of everyone else.

A suggestion: Eidolons, Paladins, etc. should abandon you on alignment change. The Priests (Not High Priests, they should abandon on religion) should abandon you on alignment change, too.

The big problem here with that is that it would require compiling a new DLL, and instead the download size. It will probably be a while before I try making another custom DLL, so you should be requesting that from Kael, Xienwolf, and/or Opera, not from me.

I've considered actually allowing priest to be built without state religions, but making state religions a prereq for their spells. I've also considered having different spells for the same religion based on alignment.

The Malakim need some incentive not to Spring their deserts. They are meant to be desert boys, not floodplain boys, after all.

In my last FF based version Malakim disciples gain the Ascetic promotion in deserts, which increased their spell strengths, gave more free xp, and allowed them to access Sun magic. Without the FF SDK that is not possible though. I'm not sure what or if I'll give them to encourage deserts in the FfH based version.
 
well, you could let Malakim build Beduin Encampments in deserts, for one, as well as increasing the desert advantage from just one commerce to one food, one hammer, and one commerce. And then Beduin could increase food and hammers, and upgrade like pirate coves do, and the nomad promotion could add 20% defense in beduin improvments.

Also, allowing them to build cottages in deserts, and farms in deserts, would also help their position.
Perhaps Beduin Camps would need to be few and far between like pirate coves (and sacrifice a worker to create one) but then I think Malakim workers should be able to build scrub on desert as well. Although I don't rly like how scrub makes movement easier in deserts. I think scrub-desert should also cost 2 movement points for the non nomadic unit.

aside from that, giving winterborn double movement in ice, and doubling the movement cost of ice (to 2) would also be strong improvements.

// I like the Odio 11 and Brigit 14 idea ... ALOT

// That Pedia entry was acceptable for the Blue Dragon. I suppose his "name" could be Aegeas

// Pillar of Fire and Tsunami spell-descriptions are some-what missing, not giving their damage limits or initial damage. Destroy Undead's description also seems somewhat misleading, even if 30% damage is done on average.

//Aegeas could have 14 strength +10 Ice strength +5 poison strength, have breath Fire, and a Stronger version of the Tsunami spell. (as well as the other dragon-related bonuses)

// Occasionally one of the Dragon Bones is created without any mana within.
 
well, you could let Malakim build Beduin Encampments in deserts, for one, as well as increasing the desert advantage from just one commerce to one food, one hammer, and one commerce. And then Beduin could increase food and hammers, and upgrade like pirate coves do, and the nomad promotion could add 20% defense in beduin improvments.

Also, allowing them to build cottages in deserts, and farms in deserts, would also help their position.
Perhaps Beduin Camps would need to be few and far between like pirate coves (and sacrifice a worker to create one) but then I think Malakim workers should be able to build scrub on desert as well. Although I don't rly like how scrub makes movement easier in deserts. I think scrub-desert should also cost 2 movement points for the non nomadic unit.

aside from that, giving winterborn double movement in ice, and doubling the movement cost of ice (to 2) would also be strong improvements.

// I like the Odio 11 and Brigit 14 idea ... ALOT

Sounds rather familiar.... But different too. To address your points with my own opinions :p:

Why on earth would you give them 1:food:1:commerce:1:hammer: in desert? I don't see the food, and I think they should be commerce gods but have low hammers. ;) In RifE, they have 1:commerce:, can build a unique improvement, and can create 1 oasis per city. Also allowed improvements to be built on Oases, and removed most unhealth from floodplains for them... That last part requires a new DLL though.

I also made scorch have a chance to change forest to scrub when the plot becomes desert. Which Jean Elcard then improved on, and has in FlavorMod. And FF, I think. ;)

Spoiler Bedouin Improvements in RifE :
Bedouin Improvements vs Cottage Improvements

Cottage- 1:commerce:
Hamlet- 2:commerce:
Village- 3:commerce:, +1 at Taxation
Town- 4:commerce:, +1 at Taxation

Bedouin Sit- 1:commerce: (Costs 15 :gold:)
Bedouin Camp- 1:commerce: 1:food:
Bedouin Gathering- 2:commerce: 2:food:
Bedouin Village- 3:commerce: 2:food:, +1:food: at Sanitation

Bedouin improvements now also require 1 tile of space between each other, which is set via xml in RifE. In compensation, their civ trait, Merchant (In RifE and FF, originally Malakim+) grants food from trade.

 
I don't really care much Bedouin Camps, at least as normally implemented in most modmods. I don't want them spamming the terrain and don't care much for python prereqs that check the area around them first.

I tend to think that the Malakim don't particular like the Desert (just like Kael has said the Illians of the Age of magic did not really like living in frozen wastelands), they just choose to do so because better lands are all occupied. Those that come there of their own free will

Hmmm...What if Bedouin Encampments were made into a unique Fort-like improvement that any Nomad could create in any (non-Floodplains) Desert tile, which would be razed instead of captured and used against them by their enemies? I could also give the Malakim a Market UB (Bazaar?) that gives free Specialist Slots for Bedouin Camps in the city radius (using the BtS Forest Preserve mechanics, which I used quite a bit in this version). I don't like making them increase base yields though.


Yeah, Scrub shouldn't make movement easier. I'm thinking I may make it even worse than normal deserts for non-Nomad units, and make the Malakim preserve Scrub like the elves do forests.



I usually make Winterborn offer double movement in Tundras and Snow and double the movement cost of Snow and make Blizzards slow movement even more. I just forgot to this time. I'll probably add that back.
 
You may want the Citadel of Light improvement from RifE, given that you had helped me write that python and it was based off an idea you had. :lol:

As for the Sits... Like I said in the spoiler above, they require spacing now. And cannot be built in floodplains. The spacing is done in the DLL in RifE, not python, but it WOULD require python unless you merged that. ;)
 
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about those!


At one point I planned to give nearly every civ a unique fort, but didn't really like the idea of having that many worker UUs. Am I right in recalling that some modmods can now allow build orders through promotions?


I guess I could easily make it so that Citadels of Light are not built the normal way but through spells though.
 
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about those!


At one point I planned to give nearly every civ a unique fort, but didn't really like the idea of having that many worker UUs. Am I right in recalling that some modmods can now allow build orders through promotions?


I guess I could easily make it so that Citadels of Light are not built the normal way but through spells though.

Not 'some modmods', only RifE atm. ;) Though it's code that isn't actually in the released version, as I finished it today. :mischief:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8801841#post8801841

Personally, I just made it a Citadel upgrade. If I ever get around to adding ImprovementClasses (mostly for forts, honestly), it will be a unique Citadel replacement.
 
Sounds interesting, Magister.

What was that "Something Completely Different" spell of the Grigori you were talking about? And that unique mage unit you were thinking of? Sounded... different.

I take it you did your remake of the magic system, like you've always talked about?
 
hmm, well I think at the least we should allow Malakim to build in scrubs, get (perhaps) an extra coin from desert (to make desert base of 2 commerce rather than 1), to be able to build cottages in desert, and perhaps able to build scrubs in some way ... perhaps a Sun 1 + Nomad spell. Or a Nature 1 + Nomad spell.

This way they can get some use out of desert, and it could at least be an alternative (cottaged desert/scrubs, or cottaged plains for the extra food) ... thats my take anyways.

///The one Oasis per city might could work too ... or simply Water III + Nomad allows you to create an oasis ;) ... also allowing workers to build improvements on Oasis could add to the spell's utility.
 
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