[Module]The Myu Collective

1) Why no Hero promotion for Master Zho? He would be infinitely improved by a Hero promotion in my humble opinion.

2) Grey Sentries are not available before Hunting and Shadow Chambers, except you start with one. This is a little weird, I guess? If they're a Scout replacement, why not just have them block Scouts, maybe move Shadow Chambers to Ancient Chants or something?

3) Nevos is like a thousand times better then Zeriadh thanks to Grey Sentries. Maybe not a thousand times. But it's an advantage without a clear mirror, similar to Mekara Order's Zaria, who gets vampires and religion and pretty much no downside. Grey Sentries, Shadow Chamber, and Deathtouched are not BAD things, but Zeriadh needs something to compensate. Her traits aren't doing it for her.
 
Thanks for the comments, Viatos. I'm going to have to disagree with you (which I'd rather not, because at least you are playing my mod! :goodjob: ).

1) Why no Hero promotion for Master Zho? He would be infinitely improved by a Hero promotion in my humble opinion.

Yes, he would be infinitely improved, which is why he doesn't have it. Originally, he had Hero and also Channeling III, making him BY FAR the earliest Channeling III hero, and making Divination the obvious thing to rush. He was just way too good. As he is, he still comes with Domination - way earlier than you could hope to get Domination by any other means, and Channeling II, earlier than you could get mages. I didn't want to move him back in the tech tree - I wanted him available at Divination, giving the Myu a reason for all 4 of the post KoTE magic techs. So, he's weakened a bit - he only gets XP from his dominated units attacking, and he has low defense so you have to protect him from assassins.

2) Grey Sentries are not available before Hunting and Shadow Chambers, except you start with one. This is a little weird, I guess? If they're a Scout replacement, why not just have them block Scouts, maybe move Shadow Chambers to Ancient Chants or something?

Grey Sentries are basically a slight upgrade on scouts available to Nevos, because he has a recon-unit focus (whereas Zeriadh focuses more on the arcane and melee lines). However, I found that it was rare to ever use Shadow psionics with Zeriadh, so I wanted her starting Scout unit to be able to get Shadow Jaunt with just 1 skill-up. That way, Shadow Jaunt would be a lot more useful for early scouting. (Since Shadow Jaunt is primarily good for scouting, I wanted Scouts to actually use it - which would have been more or less impossible since you don't start with Shadow mana.) I am, however, considering a change to Shadow Chambers to make them available earlier, and NOT provide Shadow mana and not be limited. This is because limiting the building to 3 doesn't work right - it seems to limit it to only 1 (watch out for that!), and just move it around when you build it. If I did that, I'd probably figure out some other way for Nevos to get Shadow mana free - I don't think it's possible to change the palace for different leaders, and not sure I'd want to - Nevos would be crippled without Earth mana, I think...

So, short answer - Grey Sentries are slight upgrades on scouts rather than replacements. You get one to start, because it gives you someone who can get Shadow Jaunt early.

3) Nevos is like a thousand times better then Zeriadh thanks to Grey Sentries. Maybe not a thousand times. But it's an advantage without a clear mirror, similar to Mekara Order's Zaria, who gets vampires and religion and pretty much no downside. Grey Sentries, Shadow Chamber, and Deathtouched are not BAD things, but Zeriadh needs something to compensate. Her traits aren't doing it for her.

Really? Nevos only has Death Seeker and Ingenuity. Ingenuity is a weak trait that the Khazad get free as a third trait. Death Seeker is unique and kind of strong, but is it really stronger than Creative and Philosophical put together? Scouts with Shadow I aren't all that great; Free Shadow mana is okay, but not great until you get to tier 4 units; and the bonuses from Death Seeker are good against undead, but that's about it... I feel like increased cultural radius, reduced cost on some early buildings, and huge bonus to great person production is better.
 
Yes, he would be infinitely improved, which is why he doesn't have it.

Maybe give them a hero somewhere else, then? I actually stopped playing them after I realized they don't really have one. The Mechanos, Doviello, Mekara Order, Legion of D'tesh, Scions of Patria, Illians, and probably one or two others all have precedent for "hero" units alongside an actual Hero.

Also, the dominate-for-xp thing is pretty hit or miss, since the AI rarely builds anything useful and the wilderness is typically an infinite hell of Scorpion Clan Goblins. Might consider at least Battle-Hardened, or letting him lead Myu units.

Really? Nevos only has Death Seeker and Ingenuity. Ingenuity is a weak trait that the Khazad get free as a third trait. Death Seeker is unique and kind of strong, but is it really stronger than Creative and Philosophical put together? Scouts with Shadow I aren't all that great; Free Shadow mana is okay, but not great until you get to tier 4 units; and the bonuses from Death Seeker are good against undead, but that's about it... I feel like increased cultural radius, reduced cost on some early buildings, and huge bonus to great person production is better.

I'd personally take Ingenuity over Creative; that 50 gold never fails to come in handy, and given the importance of highly promoted units, cheap upgrades is not a trivial advantage. Shadow Jaunt allows for an almost unmatched ease of exploration (competing only with Jotnar Trololols and D'teshi stealth), and oh yeah, the Held thing doesn't work right, because if you Shadow Jaunt while Held the promotion doesn't refresh so you can get like an extra turn of mobility every couple turns.

It's really GPP versus a host of little benefits that I personally find stack up pretty high altogether.

Possibly just my problem, but Myu now crash to desktop immediately upon trying to build first city with them. No modules, but running the latest public build with the SVN updater. Tried reinstalling the Myu, didn't help.
 
Possibly just my problem, but Myu now crash to desktop immediately upon trying to build first city with them. No modules, but running the latest public build with the SVN updater. Tried reinstalling the Myu, didn't help.

Nope, it's persistent and a friend reports the same. Any word/ideas on this?
 
If I don't play the Myu, RifE works fine, even with the module installed. It is specifically the act of building a city with the Myu that is crashing the game. All other civs work fine.
 
If I don't play the Myu, RifE works fine, even with the module installed. It is specifically the act of building a city with the Myu that is crashing the game. All other civs work fine.

Can you tell me what other modules you have installed (including version if you can)? Maybe there's some interaction I can check into... It sounds like you HAVE played the Myu, so did they stop working at particular point? Maybe after installing something else?

Oh, also, do you know if the Myu have been an AI civ during games you've played that worked fine?
 
They stopped working after I updated base RIFE 1.31 with the SVN updater to whatever the current public build is; I suspect the issue is a file that got changed that Myu Collective interacts with once you build a city and everything that triggers with that, but not before, since I can wander around with my starting units and teleport my Grey Sentry if I really want to.

I run a partial StartingSomething by lemonjelly (just the worker and warrior parts), but I first disabled and attempted and then completely removed and attempted as soon as I noticed the Myu problem. Didn't make a different, so I don't think that's the problem. Also have BannorChainofCommand, Dural, Hamstalfar, and MoreEvents.

I have never seen the Myu as an AI civ, actually. Let me check that...hmm. Okay. Interesting twist: First turn can pass with AI Myu, so presumably they build their city just fine. But when I go into Worldbuilder to check, instant crash. Could that be an art thing?
 
Thanks for the troubleshooting info. I'm not sure when I'll have time to work on this - won't be home until late today, and my weekend is slammed. I can definitely see it being an issue with the SVN build - I will check it out as soon as I am able, but until then, I would play with Myu disabled.
 
Modmaker's last activity was in June.

I am still subscribed to this thread (got an email this morning), but if I recall correctly, I was unable to find any reason why the Myu shouldn't work with the latest RifE build (at the time). I took a second job to make a little extra money and have been extremely busy - haven't really played any computer games lately, not just Civ IV.

Does anyone know if the Myu work with the latest RifE build? Or if they don't, have any idea why they might not work? I'd be happy to update the Myu to work or to fix any issues if I can find some time. But the planned later versions are probably not going to happen at this point...
 
I'm not sure what the cause is. It works fine with the 1.31 release. However, there have been a large number of updates through the svn and many of them add quite a lot of content. If I start a game as Myu the game crashes as I place my first city. This is all I know. I think I read somewhere up a few posts that he had a problem when the Myu city would have become visible in his game.
 
Too bad its dwarves, their psionic theme would be cool with a lot of things from an octos cthulu based civ to a gith-astral type of race, but i digress i downloaded it.

First of all, every unit gets mind domain, including Larry, Curly and Moe! This is underuseful in the begining but once you get 10 or so warriors and scouts with mind 1-2, it can become pretty strong. I would take this away and maybe only give it to divine and arcane units.

Shadow Tower i think it is called, the national wonder? I built it in my capital and my other cities kept being able to build it, so with world builder i gave myself some engineers and experimented - only one copy can exist at a time, but it can be re-built. Should this be rebuildable?

While the overabundance of mind abilities is overwhelming, its very fun - this is one of my favorite modules. the first leaders traits feel vanilla and non-unique, like "just another leader" but the one with the dark arts abilities (whatever its called), having a unique trait, even though it isn't game-breaking makes it feel more authentic. I almost feel like there should be agnostic trait, it seems overpowered when using Octopus Overlords with it.

I will provide more feedback as i play this module more but so far i enjoy Cthulu's Little Dwarves.
 
so does anyone from the development team have any idea why this mod would crash upon first viewing a city. It does this in the svn builds only afaik. I can say that if you play them and create a city the game will immediately crash and if the ai plays them the game will crash upon coming into view of their capital. I am unsure if it crashes on any city. Possibly an art issue with the palace?
 
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