hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
Mongol time gets ever closer...
Dawn of the Middle Kingdom [DoC]
- Thread starter Tomorrow's Dawn
- Start date
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Build Harbors in your Coastal Cities (every one except Dagou is missing it). You need Harbor to build Customs House (you are getting Economics right about now, no?), and +1 
for each of your seafood tiles can make a big difference in the long run.
for each of your seafood tiles can make a big difference in the long run.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
The Fall of Rome.
Meanwhile, in Europe, our Warrior huddles with le Grande Armée in preparation
for the siege of Rome.
If we're lucky, Rome will have 1 defender left in critical condition for us to
swoop in at like a vulture.
No!
At 5.3, that Legion is still too strong for our Warrior to take out.
Curiously, I think this is the only time where I've ever seen an independent GP.
Well, now we know it's possible.
On another note, it's most definitely possible to see Independent Conquerors
take over the New World now in DoC, if you like seeing something new from time to time.
France manages to take Rome after all, and our Warrior is left to wander
wherever he pleases in Europe.
We trade for Civil Service from Justinian.
Civil Service of course, is a well-favored tech amongst many BtS players.
Unlocking Macemen & Bureaucracy, as well as being a stepping stone on the
way to Liberalism and allowing you to spread irrigation?
Yes, please.
By this time, we finish Notre Dame as well, allowing us to grow our cities even further.
Seriously, I will reiterate this again. DO NOT follow the China guide on the Rhye's wiki.
Constant whipping is not good for your economy.
In this game, I've only whipped maybe 4-8 times, and only in newly founded cities
that needed to get their temples up fast.
A look at our burgeoning Republic (along with an Arabian collapse).
See Corea & Japan developing peacefully under the banner of the dragon.
Again, also needs to be reiterated. If you aren't rushing Corea & Japan,
then you're playing China wrong (no offense to Moshe Dayan, I love that story (China: All Under Heaven)).
Meanwhile, in Europe, our Warrior huddles with le Grande Armée in preparation
for the siege of Rome.
If we're lucky, Rome will have 1 defender left in critical condition for us to
swoop in at like a vulture.
No!
At 5.3, that Legion is still too strong for our Warrior to take out.
Curiously, I think this is the only time where I've ever seen an independent GP.
Well, now we know it's possible.
On another note, it's most definitely possible to see Independent Conquerors
take over the New World now in DoC, if you like seeing something new from time to time.
France manages to take Rome after all, and our Warrior is left to wander
wherever he pleases in Europe.
We trade for Civil Service from Justinian.
Civil Service of course, is a well-favored tech amongst many BtS players.
Unlocking Macemen & Bureaucracy, as well as being a stepping stone on the
way to Liberalism and allowing you to spread irrigation?
Yes, please.
By this time, we finish Notre Dame as well, allowing us to grow our cities even further.
Seriously, I will reiterate this again. DO NOT follow the China guide on the Rhye's wiki.
Constant whipping is not good for your economy.
In this game, I've only whipped maybe 4-8 times, and only in newly founded cities
that needed to get their temples up fast.
A look at our burgeoning Republic (along with an Arabian collapse).
See Corea & Japan developing peacefully under the banner of the dragon.
Again, also needs to be reiterated. If you aren't rushing Corea & Japan,
then you're playing China wrong (no offense to Moshe Dayan, I love that story (China: All Under Heaven)).
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Mongols at the Gates.
France & Spain go to war!
I'm going to want to keep my Warrior in Europe as a war correspondent,
as the outcome of this war will effectively determine which European
I should set my espionage slider on.
In my experience, Spain usually stomps on France,
in part, I think this is mostly due to Louis XIV being relatively peaceful
but we'll just have to see, won't we?
Meanwhile, we completelyscam negotiate Asoka for some Ivory.
This is a little late and I should've done it sooner under normal circumstances,
but I was getting caught up in developing my economy.
In vanilla RFC, to prepare for the Mongol spawn, what you'll need is approx.
15-20 War Elephants and 10 or so Catapults.
You'll obviously want to park your stack in a Desert fort 1 tile away from Karakorum's SE corner.
As for keeping Karakorum, it's an...okay city. It's not completely horrible, but it's not good either.
It's up to the Chinese player's personal choice really.
In DoC, you can get away with less Elephants.
Only 10 or so are needed, and the rest can be made up for in the form of Cannons!
In response to an earlier question though, I do not wipe the Mongols off the face of the Earth.
Nor do I plan to. No. Qin Shi Huang has foresight, and there is a specific reason why,
in DoC, letting the Mongols live should be the new paradigm.
Wait, watch and learn.
We meet Portugal...
China now possesses Optics!
It's time to go circumnavigate the world, which should take precedence over New World conquerors.
I used to go crazy in vanilla RFC to get conquerors mostly because they helped reach the 3rd Units goal immensely.
Not so much the case anymore, but conquerors are still an integral part of my strategy
and I make it a point never to miss getting them.
A note for people wishing to get conquerors.
If you discover a Mesoamerican civilization before 1300, you will not get conquerors.
It's kind of weird to me, personally, how you're kind of actually punished for jumping the gun too early.
France & Spain go to war!
I'm going to want to keep my Warrior in Europe as a war correspondent,
as the outcome of this war will effectively determine which European
I should set my espionage slider on.
In my experience, Spain usually stomps on France,
in part, I think this is mostly due to Louis XIV being relatively peaceful
but we'll just have to see, won't we?
Meanwhile, we completely
This is a little late and I should've done it sooner under normal circumstances,
but I was getting caught up in developing my economy.
In vanilla RFC, to prepare for the Mongol spawn, what you'll need is approx.
15-20 War Elephants and 10 or so Catapults.
You'll obviously want to park your stack in a Desert fort 1 tile away from Karakorum's SE corner.
As for keeping Karakorum, it's an...okay city. It's not completely horrible, but it's not good either.
It's up to the Chinese player's personal choice really.
In DoC, you can get away with less Elephants.
Only 10 or so are needed, and the rest can be made up for in the form of Cannons!
In response to an earlier question though, I do not wipe the Mongols off the face of the Earth.
Nor do I plan to. No. Qin Shi Huang has foresight, and there is a specific reason why,
in DoC, letting the Mongols live should be the new paradigm.
Wait, watch and learn.
We meet Portugal...
China now possesses Optics!
It's time to go circumnavigate the world, which should take precedence over New World conquerors.
I used to go crazy in vanilla RFC to get conquerors mostly because they helped reach the 3rd Units goal immensely.
Not so much the case anymore, but conquerors are still an integral part of my strategy
and I make it a point never to miss getting them.
A note for people wishing to get conquerors.
If you discover a Mesoamerican civilization before 1300, you will not get conquerors.
It's kind of weird to me, personally, how you're kind of actually punished for jumping the gun too early.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Well, it's not really 'fair' for the Americans to get conquerors 1 turn after they spawn, is it? 
I'm curious why you let the Mongols live... and you got lucky, usually they spawn at war with China.
By the way, 8 C2 elephants in either RFC will do. Just kill their Keshiks, they can't take cities with trebuchets alone.
I'm curious why you let the Mongols live... and you got lucky, usually they spawn at war with China.
By the way, 8 C2 elephants in either RFC will do. Just kill their Keshiks, they can't take cities with trebuchets alone.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Letting Mongols Do The Heavy Lifting.
In DoC 1.81, the AI Mongols get a free conqueror stack against the following civs:
Russia, Arabia, Seljuks, Persia, Byzantines. Their main army goes on to attack China.
It is to help simulate the historic Mongol Empire, and also to accelerate it's fall through rapid expansion.
Back before 1.81 was released and everyone was still testing the game,
it was not uncommon for everyone to be twelve and what is this?:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11272994&postcount=280
But now it's been balanced so that the Mongols collapse roughly between
1400-1500 most of the time.
Both China & Persia get a guaranteed rebirth during that time.
As Ming (still China) & Iran respectively.
The former is important to consider when you are playing Japan,
as the new 3rd Japanese UHV requires you to control China
(which is much more safely done by vassalizing them after their rebirth)
Now, the reason why I let the Mongols live is because I wanted vassals.
Russia in particular. Sometimes during the Mongol conquests, civs will throw themselves into your arms for your protection.
This is a prime time to get vassals. However, if they're stubborn (like China usually is),
then you should wait until after the civ dies and becomes reborn to vassalize them (when they are weak and very eager to go under someone's protection).
Playing for a Domination/Conquest victory practically requires big civs like Russia, Arabia & China to fall under your wing.
And letting Mongols live is one of the keys to that, in my opinion.
But first, before we can take any vassals (we already have Monarchy obviously, but that isn't what we really need), there's something we have to do first.
Not this, but look! We met Dharmasetu of the Indonesians.
The Indonesians are a new addition to DoC, as Srivijaya was historically
a very significant and cultured civilization in the Indonesian region.
Indonesia is also a very large and relatively significant region today as well
so their inclusion is certainly not without merit.
We win the Liberalism race in 1270AD.
Miles ahead of even the closest European.
Well, it's time to pick a tech isn't it?
And the one that we are going for is Astronomy!
Astronomy serves a dual purpose in DoC.
Apart from unlocking Galleons and the dubiously useful Resettlement,
DoC makes it so that you're no longer able to vassalize civs that are on different continents.
However, Astronomy allows you to vassalize faraway civs.
I was going to try and vassalize either Mongolia itself (who was fighting a war against Byzantines, Russians & Germans all at once) or some other civ.
...My gambit didn't work, because unfortunately...
I forgot that I was still at war with the English & the Egyptians.
We destabilize India as they're getting a little strong;
Khmer is their vassal and I don't want to risk another southern invasion.
Meanwhile, our war correspondent in the Far West brings breaking news
about the Franco-Spanish War that is still raging on.
The Spanish have captured Pompeii (an Independent city) but razed it as they didn't want multiple fronts to defend and wanted to press an attack on Rome.
On the Iberian Peninsula itself, the French appear to have the upper hand, sending in an invasion crew to take Tarragona.
Hedge your bets, everybody!
In DoC 1.81, the AI Mongols get a free conqueror stack against the following civs:
Russia, Arabia, Seljuks, Persia, Byzantines. Their main army goes on to attack China.
It is to help simulate the historic Mongol Empire, and also to accelerate it's fall through rapid expansion.
Back before 1.81 was released and everyone was still testing the game,
it was not uncommon for everyone to be twelve and what is this?:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11272994&postcount=280
But now it's been balanced so that the Mongols collapse roughly between
1400-1500 most of the time.
Both China & Persia get a guaranteed rebirth during that time.
As Ming (still China) & Iran respectively.
The former is important to consider when you are playing Japan,
as the new 3rd Japanese UHV requires you to control China
(which is much more safely done by vassalizing them after their rebirth)
Now, the reason why I let the Mongols live is because I wanted vassals.
Russia in particular. Sometimes during the Mongol conquests, civs will throw themselves into your arms for your protection.
This is a prime time to get vassals. However, if they're stubborn (like China usually is),
then you should wait until after the civ dies and becomes reborn to vassalize them (when they are weak and very eager to go under someone's protection).
Playing for a Domination/Conquest victory practically requires big civs like Russia, Arabia & China to fall under your wing.
And letting Mongols live is one of the keys to that, in my opinion.
But first, before we can take any vassals (we already have Monarchy obviously, but that isn't what we really need), there's something we have to do first.
Not this, but look! We met Dharmasetu of the Indonesians.
The Indonesians are a new addition to DoC, as Srivijaya was historically
a very significant and cultured civilization in the Indonesian region.
Indonesia is also a very large and relatively significant region today as well
so their inclusion is certainly not without merit.
We win the Liberalism race in 1270AD.
Miles ahead of even the closest European.
Well, it's time to pick a tech isn't it?
And the one that we are going for is Astronomy!
Astronomy serves a dual purpose in DoC.
Apart from unlocking Galleons and the dubiously useful Resettlement,
DoC makes it so that you're no longer able to vassalize civs that are on different continents.
However, Astronomy allows you to vassalize faraway civs.
I was going to try and vassalize either Mongolia itself (who was fighting a war against Byzantines, Russians & Germans all at once) or some other civ.
...My gambit didn't work, because unfortunately...
I forgot that I was still at war with the English & the Egyptians.
We destabilize India as they're getting a little strong;
Khmer is their vassal and I don't want to risk another southern invasion.
Meanwhile, our war correspondent in the Far West brings breaking news
about the Franco-Spanish War that is still raging on.
The Spanish have captured Pompeii (an Independent city) but razed it as they didn't want multiple fronts to defend and wanted to press an attack on Rome.
On the Iberian Peninsula itself, the French appear to have the upper hand, sending in an invasion crew to take Tarragona.
Hedge your bets, everybody!
Oh hey, you found my WTFMongolia post. 
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
It is rather unforgettable
Gosh, you think seeing that post is unforgettable, you should've experienced the pants-crapping terror that was finding that monster crouching over my northern border... and -staying- there for some centuries.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
Did you just gave away what victory you are going for?
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
@strijder20: Sort of.
Circumnavigation.
Like the chapter title implies, we win Circumnavigation.
Also, check out those historical Christian persecutions
Our war correspondent moves from Southern Europe to Eastern Europe,
to cover the situation between the Russians, Byzantines, Germans & Mongols.
Meanwhile, back at home, Qin Shi Huang assembles
a mighty treasure ship fleet filled with elephants and cannons.
What this fleet remains to be used for is only spoken of in hushed whispers.
Divine Right guy gives us Divine Right in exchange for some techs.
Seriously Leoreth, if you're reading this, please don't make Mansa Musa unlikely to trade you Divine Right.
It's a tech that almost no one wants to research for themselves or burn a Great Prophet on, unless they're Muslim.
The first conquerors arrive in the New World, ready to plunder and take names.
I disband all of them except for the Cannons, Knights & Musketmen.
Keeping all of your conquerors is really taxing on your maintenance, so it's best to do away with non-essential units.
In vanilla RFC, I did like keeping the Jaguars, Holkans & Quechas though, for novelty.
I would highly suggest not doing so in Monarch difficulty and above.
In DoC by the way, when you get conquerors, your civilization enters a state of auto-war against the natives.
You don't get to have "peaceful conquerors" like you do in vanilla RFC.
We score some early victories.
Nothing much more needs to be said here.
Circumnavigation.
Like the chapter title implies, we win Circumnavigation.
Also, check out those historical Christian persecutions
Our war correspondent moves from Southern Europe to Eastern Europe,
to cover the situation between the Russians, Byzantines, Germans & Mongols.
Meanwhile, back at home, Qin Shi Huang assembles
a mighty treasure ship fleet filled with elephants and cannons.
What this fleet remains to be used for is only spoken of in hushed whispers.
Divine Right guy gives us Divine Right in exchange for some techs.
Seriously Leoreth, if you're reading this, please don't make Mansa Musa unlikely to trade you Divine Right.
It's a tech that almost no one wants to research for themselves or burn a Great Prophet on, unless they're Muslim.
The first conquerors arrive in the New World, ready to plunder and take names.
I disband all of them except for the Cannons, Knights & Musketmen.
Keeping all of your conquerors is really taxing on your maintenance, so it's best to do away with non-essential units.
In vanilla RFC, I did like keeping the Jaguars, Holkans & Quechas though, for novelty.
I would highly suggest not doing so in Monarch difficulty and above.
In DoC by the way, when you get conquerors, your civilization enters a state of auto-war against the natives.
You don't get to have "peaceful conquerors" like you do in vanilla RFC.
We score some early victories.
Nothing much more needs to be said here.
Ooh, the age of Chinese dominance of the seas begins... Too bad Chinese galleons don't have unique skins to make them look like junks, though.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Center Stage.
Back at home, the Indians & the Khmer experience a coordinated collapse
from the Thai spawn.
The Thais are once again, a new inclusion to DoC.
They usually collapse the Khmer and take their place in Southeast Asia.
Inca is not the only Mesoamerican civilization to come under siege from Chinese guns.
Another group of conquerors lands in Central America in the smack dab of two Mayan cities.
In Eastern Europe, the Mongols are losing the war and the Russians are struggling to climb back up the ladder.
The only winner in this whole situation seems to be the Holy Roman Empire, which has taken the opportunity to occupy many Russian cities.
As it is currently shaping up, France & Germany look like they're shaping up to be my strongest rivals right now.
It looks like we're going to be caught in a...
*sunglasses on*
...Bad Germance.
YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
The Aztecs too, are about to be put to the sword.
Olximche is captured and razed to the ground.
Poor Russia
Their capital is Novgorod.
I actually later found out that Moscow had been razed somehow
(Probably by the Mongols during their big sweep)
Back at home, the Indians & the Khmer experience a coordinated collapse
from the Thai spawn.
The Thais are once again, a new inclusion to DoC.
They usually collapse the Khmer and take their place in Southeast Asia.
Inca is not the only Mesoamerican civilization to come under siege from Chinese guns.
Another group of conquerors lands in Central America in the smack dab of two Mayan cities.
In Eastern Europe, the Mongols are losing the war and the Russians are struggling to climb back up the ladder.
The only winner in this whole situation seems to be the Holy Roman Empire, which has taken the opportunity to occupy many Russian cities.
As it is currently shaping up, France & Germany look like they're shaping up to be my strongest rivals right now.
It looks like we're going to be caught in a...
*sunglasses on*
...Bad Germance.
YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
The Aztecs too, are about to be put to the sword.
Olximche is captured and razed to the ground.
Poor Russia
Their capital is Novgorod.
I actually later found out that Moscow had been razed somehow
(Probably by the Mongols during their big sweep)
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
My favourite is when the Maya is alive so you get double the troops 
DC123456789
Deity
I see you have the Republic of Novgorod there...
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Cleaning House.
Reinforcements arrive in the form of official troops.
Burn.
Keep.
Burn.
Burn.
Meanwhile, my fears are confirmed.
Spain is losing the war against France.
They've just lost Madrid to them are likely to collapse soon.
Given that France already owns all of Italy and now
the eastern side of the Iberian Peninsula,
it would seem that the AI has formed the Napoleonic Empire.
And burn.
We are done with the Aztecs & the Mayas.
Our stability has seen better days.
I think all that conquering was worth it though.
The natives did give us hot chocolate, after all.
And now we have another diplomatic tool under our belt!
Also, as you can see from some of the earlier screenshots,
I made peace with Inca. Inca, is practically non-essential and is the
only decent American vassal, so I left them alone.
We really wanted to take out the Aztecs and the Maya
because of the strategic geographical location that it occupies.
Reinforcements arrive in the form of official troops.
Burn.
Keep.
Burn.
Burn.
Meanwhile, my fears are confirmed.
Spain is losing the war against France.
They've just lost Madrid to them are likely to collapse soon.
Given that France already owns all of Italy and now
the eastern side of the Iberian Peninsula,
it would seem that the AI has formed the Napoleonic Empire.
And burn.
We are done with the Aztecs & the Mayas.
Our stability has seen better days.
I think all that conquering was worth it though.
The natives did give us hot chocolate, after all.
And now we have another diplomatic tool under our belt!
Also, as you can see from some of the earlier screenshots,
I made peace with Inca. Inca, is practically non-essential and is the
only decent American vassal, so I left them alone.
We really wanted to take out the Aztecs and the Maya
because of the strategic geographical location that it occupies.
You plan to resettle some cities in better spots there, I hope?
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Nope, it's just going to remain a wasteland so that neither of them have any chance of respawning.
I really do not like respawning civs.
I really do not like respawning civs.
Haha. So it's less like "we're here to conquer your lands" and more like, "you're blocking my view of the Atlantic, get out of my way"
