Civilization V: Brave New World Fall Patch Public Beta

Vidszhite said:

On the topic of bugs, I found Salt and Ivory spawning in Grasslands. Civilopedia isn't saying they're supposed to spawn there. Considering that Ivory is normally only supposed to spawn in plains, and salt is normally reserved for low-food plots, this seems like a bug.

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I've seen Salt on Grassland forests (like in your example) occasionally before the beta patch. According to Barathor (author of the "More Luxuries" mod), grassland is on the quaternary (priority 4) list for Salt, so this may work as intended.

New patch sounds great but I hope there is some kind of solution to games where there is no war at all. Im struggling to finish my current game because there just isn't any war compared to before BNW.

AI needs to be made a bit more aggressive. Hell, even Monty in my current game just isn't bothered about war much!

I had some great battles (with AI attacking me) in G&K and this simply does not seem to happen in BNW.

Is it bug or intentional that embarked workers and settlers can plunder trade routes?

katfish said:

Is it bug or intentional that embarked workers and settlers can plunder trade routes?

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that would be a bug, and if you have a save for it please post it in the bug forums.

lockstep said:

I've seen Salt on Grassland forests (like in your example) occasionally before the beta patch. According to Barathor (author of the "More Luxuries" mod), grassland is on the quaternary (priority 4) list for Salt, so this may work as intended.

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Hmm... I don't believe I said that (at least, I hope I didn't!).

Salt shouldn't be on a grassland unless a forest is present (or if the forest was chopped).

Salt:
primary = flat, featureless plains
secondary = flat, featureless desert
tertiary = flat, featureless tundra and flat, forested tundra
quaternary = flat forests

I simply modded it to:
primary = flat, featureless plains
secondary = flat, featureless desert
tertiary = flat, featureless tundra
quaternary = flat forests

Since the quaternary already provides the forest representation on the map (including tundra areas). Also, because mines remove forest anyway, so I wanted to leave more forests available for things like Furs, which utilize forests.

So I've played a bit with this new patch and must sadly conclude that many balance changes are not well thought out, and many balance issues remain unaddressed.

Earth Mother boosting salt. Salt is already the best luxury in the game.

Sun-god seems like something that could get out of hand also.

God-King is clearly meant for a one city challenge play style. That's a nice idea, but it needs to be a bit stronger.

I've already mentioned the issue with Germany's UA. In my play test with Germany on Deity level, I was not able to clear a single barb camp. The AI was faster than me.

Indonesia's UA needs to be useful on all types of maps.

Byzantium is still in the embarrassing situation of potentially failing to found a religion at higher difficulty levels, despite doing everything right.

India's UA is still kind of bad.

Samurais being able to build fishing boats is silly. Come on... just reduce fishing boat costs for Japan instead. You see, the main problem with Samurais (and Longswordmen) is how quickly they become obsoleted by Musketmen. In that regard, nothing has changed.

As for Zeros, I still don't care about them. Fighters are a late game and niche unit that doesn't deserve to be a UU. Japan should have gotten an UB instead.

Starting locations are still very imbalanced due to the following: observatories can only be built next to mountains. Gardens can only be built next to rivers and lakes. The different terrain types are not balanced well with each other. Tundra is bad, too much forest or jungle is bad, grasslands are good, too many hills or too few is bad, etc. The game seems to make little effort to provide fair starting locations to all players.

Opening with Honor or Piety is still not as good as opening with Tradition or Liberty. Honor needs a decent opener bonus that's useful for conquest, not merely for clearing barb camps. Yes, Honor gets +50% faster general generation now... what a totally random change. Lack of generals was not Honor's problem, and neither will more generals fix the current problems. Piety lacks an early culture bonus. I suggest +1 culture for shrines.

Pearls are still in the unfortunate position of giving extra gold instead of food.

The patch notes should probably say "significant" bonus for Landmarks.

I was just comparing some files and the new bonus equals the existing penalty you get from stealing tiles away from a civ with a citadel, except that it's a positive value, of course.

A very cool idea; I'm going to have to try it out.

EDIT: sorry, I shouldn't have posted this here; and I just noticed the discussion thread for this in the forum. Can a moderator please move this?

MadDjinn said:

that would be a bug, and if you have a save for it please post it in the bug forums.

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Ai abuses this so often that i thought everyone encountered it. Just dow ai and chase his workers offshore - they try to stand on the way of trade routes and autoplunder when cargo pass them.

Zet said:

Earth Mother boosting salt. Salt is already the best luxury in the game.

Sun-god seems like something that could get out of hand also.

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The idea of Earth Mother and Sun God seems to be to allocate at least one Pantheon belief to every bonus/luxury/early strategic resource. Before 1.0.3.124, only Wheat, Copper, Salt, and Iron were missing a belief.

I agree that Salt is very strong, but my preferred solution is to reduce the bonus food by 1, as done by Barathor in Salt Tweak - Alternate.

lockstep said:

The idea of eart Mother and Sun God seems to be to allocate at least one Pantheon belief to every bonus/luxury/early strategic resource. Before 1.0.3.124, only Wheat, Copper, Salt, and Iron were missing a belief.

I agree that Salt is very strong, but my preferred solution is to reduce the bonus food by 1, as done by Barathor in Salt Tweak - Alternate.

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What makes salt so strong? I thought each luxury was interchangeable?

Moderator Action: This question is better discussed in this thread.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss bugs or glitches in the beta patch per this request:

To make this as efficient as possible, we’d like to follow some basic guidelines:

1. We are using this as an opportunity to correct bugs with the game. Because we are close to release, new features or additions cannot be considered.
2. We are focusing primarily on functionality related to the patch change-list, with a secondary priority on older bugs that we might have missed.
3. To keep things moving at a brisk rate, if you spot a bug, please post a new thread to the 2K Civilization support forum (http://tinyurl.com/n93yx2z) with the subject starting with “[BETA]”, so something like this: “[BETA] – The new Great Work “The Kiss” image isn’t displaying”. This helps the engineers to quickly pinpoint beta specific bugs while browsing the forum. We will also be monitoring the “Civ5 – Bug Reports” forum at CivFanatics.
4. Within the thread, please post a save of the turn before the problem reveals itself, along with a description of what you did, and any other supporting info you think would help, like a screenshot. This will allow our engineers to grab the save, and see what’s causing the problem quickly.
5. If you experience a crash while playing, go to the root folder of the game (mine is located here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization V\), and check for a “[filename].mdmp” file that corresponds to the date and time of the crash. If you have one, please zip it up and post it to the support forum in the format above.

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Please try to follow these guidelines.

katfish said:

Ai abuses this so often that i thought everyone encountered it. Just dow ai and chase his workers offshore - they try to stand on the way of trade routes and autoplunder when cargo pass them.

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they need a save. It'll be faster for them to see what is happening, vs developers spending time trying to hit a specific situation (which isn't very common) before actually working on the bug.

Carl5872 said:

What makes salt so strong? I thought each luxury was interchangeable?

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Right now, improved Salt has a yield of 6 (on plain, it's 3/2/1), which is more than most other luxury resources. Have a look at Barathor's mod for details.

EDIT: Sorry. Will refrain from unrelated discussion from now on.

Moderator Action: Thanks.

The Hanse unique building for Germany not only gives a 5% boost per city-state trade route to production, but to food, science, and gold as well. I did the calculations, and it would appear that it's not just a bug in the text, but that the Hanse truly is multiplying these values. I don't know how to upload a save file, but I imagine that it would be very easy to recreate... Though, I wouldn't mind if you guys kept that in.

lockstep said:

Right now, improved Salt has a yield of 6 (on plain, it's 3/2/1), which is more than most other luxury resources. Have a look at Barathor's mod for details.

EDIT: Sorry. Will refrain from unrelated discussion from now on.

Moderator Action: Thanks.

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Me too and to show it, I would like to say Ive experienced slower wait times between turns. Granted I played on a huge arborea map, so that will make turns go longer, but they seem to be longer than I remember. Would uploading an individual save help this, or should I record how long it takes me to get through X turns with the patch, uninstall it then go through the same number of turns on the same size map with same civs etc, and record how long they take?

Also it would help if someone posted instructions for uploading a save. (ex. where to find it on your computer. Assume I don't play around with where things are located and any default settings will be there)

Hi. Not sure i can call it a bug yet, but, has anyone failed to convert a Barb camp with Germany? In my current test game, i've successfully converted 6 camps so far, and failed none. If i recall my pobabilities calculations well, i had 0.67^6 chances of this happening, that's about 9%.
Of course, in a recent game i've failed to catch ennemy spies 8 times in a row with my counter agent, it was even lower probabilities
Will get to check the Hanse bug later this game.

Nice changes globally, even if i tend to agree that Salt wasn't in need of any boost. At least it's only 1 , less than other ressource based pantheons. Wasn't impressed by Japan's changes. On paper, this looks nice, but how often do you start near atolls? I've rolled 5 japan start (continent map), and even thought i always started near ocean, only once did i get more than 1 fish in any tile i could see in the first 5 turns. I fear it will have a marginal effect on most games.

Carl5872 said:

Also it would help if someone posted instructions for uploading a save. (ex. where to find it on your computer. Assume I don't play around with where things are located and any default settings will be there)

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You should find your saves at:
C:\Users\pc\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\Saves

In the instructions above, they ask for you to post the save to the Bug Report forum here at CFC or at 2K (link at post 131 above).

You upload a save by attaching it to the forum. The option appears below the post window and is labeled "Manage Attachments". Click on it, browse for the save and highlight it and then click upload.

tomtom5858 said:

What, and granting Faith to the best resource in the game (Salt) wasn't crossing your mind when you thought those things were broken?

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Theres so much broken in terms of mp. Salt doesn't need faith I totally agree. What the hell have they done to Japan?
Order was already the most powerful and they buff it and they nerf science victory?!!

Idiotic changes that only making SP interesting and the AI is still very easy and boring for some of us veterans, even on Deity. MP is where my comments are focused.

If anything they need to nerf faith off flood plains for Desert Folklore. I've been asking for this since GK came out. Also on quick speed getting 8 faith from meeting religious CS is very irritating since you 'luck out' on the first pantheon. Theres so much wrong with the map scripts in terms of balancing.

I was planning a massive mod to address all the issues and Earthstrike and I have a 12 page design document drawn up but its pointless since they don't give a out MP and mods still unavailable it seems.

So disappoint.

I finally failed to convert a barb after 9 successes in row. Guess i will fail 4 in a row.

I didn't posted to add this however. There is a small difference between how Germany's UA is described and how it works. The Start Screen and Civilopedia state that you have a chance to convert a unit when you kill it in a camp, while actually you have a chance to gain a unit when you raze the camp. The difference is that killing a barb in camp with an archer will never give you a unit, but razing and empty camp (after the unit on guard was killed by an archer) can. This is not a bug, but i guess you intend to have the Civilopedia as clear as possible. It might also be an old issue, but i've never played Germany before.

This is a very minor bug, but correcting it would also be very minor.

While modding the samurai, I came across its text for <TXT_KEY_UNIT_JAPANESE_SAMURAI_STRATEGY>

It reads:

The Samurai are the Japanese unique unit, replacing the Longswordsman. As powerful as the Swordsman, the Samurai automatically receives the "Shock I" promotion, giving it a bonus when fighting in open terrain. Success in combat with a Samurai has an increased chance of generating Great Generals. Can build fishing boats without being consumed.

Given its context, it can be easily understood, but it should probably be Longswordsman anyway, especially since it's capitalized.

EDIT: It should probably also change the first "are" to "is": "The Samurai is the..."