Greater Europe - People of the Old World

@Urdnot Scott - I would be delighted to take up your offer! Thanks! :D

@Hoop Thrower - Thank you very much for your ideas on the Spain Split; chances are that's more or less what I'll do. The only thing I'd suggest is making the Alous limited to a certain terrain type, as unique improvements never replace improvements. As for Castile, making it much vanilla Spain would be good, though you could remove its vanilla UA, give the Aragonese one over to them, and give Aragon something to do with sea trade, which was apparently important. Just suggestions, though; I'm going by your judgement.

As for the Basque civ, I was thinking that something to reflect their unique culture wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps "Theming Bonuses of Basque Great Works give +2 :c5culture: Culture"? Please keep me updated with any further advances though! :D
 
Well, I'd already thought of some plans for a Spain split, though I recognise I'm a little late to the party so won't be offended if you go with Hoop Throwers.

Aragon
Spoiler :
Leader: Ferdinand of Aragon.
Instantly the most recognisable and famous leader, ruled over Aragon pretty much at its peak size, encompassing the Kingdoms of Naples, Athens, the Balaeres and Sicily, along with his holdings in mainland Spain.

UA: "Crown of Aragon" Friendly or Allied city states each contribute points towards golden ages. Trade routes with friendly city states generate 50% extra gold.
UU: "Catalan Company" Replaces Pikeman, combat bonus in friendly city-state lands and starts with the amphibious promotion.
UU: "Xebec" Replaces Galley, +2 strength andGenerates Great Merchant points from combat.

I think Aragon here synergises really well as a maritime diplomatic civ, which makes sense, given Aragon was never truly a unified empire, but more a confederation of up to a dozen individual crowns. It also had serious weight in the Mediterranean, and wrote laws regarding the code of conduct in the med, called the Consulate of the Sea which were essentially some of the oldest maritime laws of all time. So thanks to the trade bonus, Aragon wont win diplo victory simply by paying off city states in the last few turns, but by constantly holding city state allies, aided by the Catalan Company.

The Catalan Company is a reference to the powerful Aragonese mercenary company which dominated the Mediterranean, seeing action from the Balaeres to Greece, hence the amphibious promotion. The xebec is simple, dominate the sea and earn great merchants which can increase your friendship with all your city state allies.


Navarre
Spoiler :
Leader: Sancho III
UA: "Linguistic Isolates" +2 culture for tiles bordering another civ, receive a free great writer upon discovering writing.
UU: "Hidalgo" Replaces Knight -30% construction cost.
UB: "Templar Barracks" Replaces Barracks, +2 if built in a captured city. Higher religious pressure from this city.

I'm focusing somewhat on the pretty incredible fact that the Basque language somehow weathered all odds and remains the only linguistic isolate in Europe, so their culture has to be pretty ferocious. This is represented throughout the civ, and so Navarre is geared nicely towards a cultural victory. Hidalgo merely means noble in Spanish, so the UU could also be called Noblezia, which is the Basque word, and though it seems a bit generic, all those born in Navarre were technically Hidalgo in military eyes, thus the recruitment of trained knights was much easier, if possible it would be interesting to have a promotion similar to the Kris swordsman, which gives it a random bonus or malus, because if everyone was suitable, one could get some great people which would otherwise be passed up for their lack of noble blood, or some people who would usually be passed up for being bad choices! The UB references the fact that the Templars were heavily active in Navarre, and Navarre was a huge supporter of the order until the end.


Castille.
Spoiler :
Leader: Isabella
UA: "Reconquista" Capturing cities of another religion generate +20 faith per follower. Cities with another religion present generate 25% less production.
UU: "Caballero" +3 combat strength +25% bonus near cities following another religion.
UU: "Spanish Inquistor" Replaces inquisitor, generates a gold sum when converting your cities. +1 use.

Now that we've had cultural and diplomatic, it's time for a conquest civ, and castille here fits that perfectly! Its UA should encourage it to conquer other cities, and the Caballero will make that much easier, when the middle ages hit, Castile should be able to move fast and hit hard to make the most of its UA and UU. Once in posession of those foreign cities, the Inquisitor can make Castile some gold from the whole thing, representing the confiscation of heathen properties. A deep blend of intertwined faith and domination, I like how this turned out.


Spain would then be the same as it is now, but led by Charles V instead of Isabella.
 
Am I the only one who notices these annoying ads randomly hidden in every post?
 
Well, I'd already thought of some plans for a Spain split, though I recognise I'm a little late to the party so won't be offended if you go with Hoop Throwers.

Aragon
Spoiler :

UA: "Crown of Aragon" Friendly or Allied city states each contribute points towards golden ages.
Spoiler :


As a note to Viregel, my HRE UA has this.
 
Also, I'd rather not have either of those UUs, Xebecs are Middle Eastern, while the Catalan Company is... Catalan, and given that we'll have Catalunia as a separate civ...
 
Also, I'd rather not have either of those UUs, Xebecs are Middle Eastern, while the Catalan Company is... Catalan, and given that we'll have Catalunia as a separate civ...

Xebecs aren't middle eastern, sure they're based largely on Barbary ships, but that's not the same as being intrinsically middle-eastern. And while the Catalan Company was never exclusively Catalan, I'll admit the name is confusing. I'm open to other names, but one must remember there is going to be some overlap between Aragon and the Catalonia civ, since Aragon covered mostly Catalonian lands. If we're talking about the kingdom of Aragon, yeah, no Catalan overlap, but for the actual crown of Aragon, which my civ represents, and which is likely more deserving of a place as a civ, then much of it was Catalan.

Regarding the UA, I really had no idea that was the HRE bonus, I've never seen that civ since it isn't on the workshop :L Instead, how about either:
-All city states gift units, regardless of type, plus +30% gold for city state trade routes.
-All trade routes with friendly or allied city states provide +30% gold, maritime trade routes with city states provide +2 food in the city.
 
Xebecs aren't middle eastern, sure they're based largely on Barbary ships, but that's not the same as being intrinsically middle-eastern. And while the Catalan Company was never exclusively Catalan, I'll admit the name is confusing. I'm open to other names, but one must remember there is going to be some overlap between Aragon and the Catalonia civ, since Aragon covered mostly Catalonian lands. If we're talking about the kingdom of Aragon, yeah, no Catalan overlap, but for the actual crown of Aragon, which my civ represents, and which is likely more deserving of a place as a civ, then much of it was Catalan.

Regarding the UA, I really had no idea that was the HRE bonus, I've never seen that civ since it isn't on the workshop :L Instead, how about either:
-All city states gift units, regardless of type, plus +30% gold for city state trade routes.
-All trade routes with friendly or allied city states provide +30% gold, maritime trade routes with city states provide +2 food in the city.

Understandable. The Holy Roman Empire has had a tumultuous standing beneath my authorship. But the full trait is as much:

Cannot train settlers or annex cities. May create three Imperial Cities after Guilds that receive trade bonuses. Happiness from Prince-Electors and allied City-States increase Golden Age progress. May purchase in puppet cities.*

*Prince-Electors are your puppet cities, for reference.

I do not believe that this will change in the future. I appreciate your intent to re-think the UA, though you're of course not obliged to (the two are slightly different. Perhaps keeping in the same vein, allied and friendly city-states could increase the length of Golden Ages?)
 
I do not believe that this will change in the future. I appreciate your intent to re-think the UA, though you're of course not obliged to (the two are slightly different. Perhaps keeping in the same vein, allied and friendly city-states could increase the length of Golden Ages?)

Interesting, there's definitely some difference between the two civs, but you're right perhaps the overlap is too much. I like the idea of increasing the length of golden ages, it would give Aragon more incentive to hold allies for as long as possible.

If the Catalan Company is too confusing, a name, and I agree, it's annoying. An interesting idea could be a building that increases happiness, to make golden ages more common for Aragon. What about...
UB: "Consulate of the Sea" replaces market. +2 gold if built on the coast, and +3 happiness for city state trade routes in this city.

A merchant special building matches the xebec with racking up huge GM points, and then the extra happiness from city state trade routes will allow more of those long golden ages, and yet more incentive to play the diplomatic game.
 
My main reason to not focus Aragon on Sea is that both Galicia and the Basque have a much greater naval tradition, being the best navigators of Spain, as all 3 would get too repetitive, and given that Aragon has many more interesting characteristics than simply being a minor naval power, I'd rather focus it on other things, like the Reconquista.
 
My main reason to not focus Aragon on Sea is that both Galicia and the Basque have a much greater naval tradition, being the best navigators of Spain, as all 3 would get too repetitive, and given that Aragon has many more interesting characteristics than simply being a minor naval power, I'd rather focus it on other things, like the Reconquista.

I'd say the Basque are more notable for culture, when one thinks of Navarre, one doesn't immedeately jump to the idea of excellent navigators. Whereas Aragon was 100% a thassalocracy, and one of the most powerful of the time. How you could offer Galicia and Navarra as naval superpowers and then call the crown of Aragon a minor power is beyond me man :lol:

I think Castille is much more linked to the reconquista, they finished it, and gained by far the most land.
 
I'd say the Basque are more notable for culture, when one thinks of Navarre, one doesn't immedeately jump to the idea of excellent navigators. Whereas Aragon was 100% a thassalocracy, and one of the most powerful of the time. How you could offer Galicia and Navarra as naval superpowers and then call the crown of Aragon a minor power is beyond me man :lol:

I think Castille is much more linked to the reconquista, they finished it, and gained by far the most land.

True, I didn't want to discredit Aragon's naval power, it's not so much that Aragon wasn't a naval power as it's that Galicia and the Basque don't have as much going on for them. Of course, the Basque could focus on their strong and unique culture, but then that's also a feature of Catalonia, where I also worked the alliance with city states thing you've got for Aragon. The Basque could have a Production focus however, they are the most developed and industrialized part of Spain after all... ah, Spanish Kingdoms are complicated.

For Castile I want something like: "Defensive Buildings increase the rate at which borders expand" as that would be so flavorful for them...
 
True, I didn't want to discredit Aragon's naval power, it's not so much that Aragon wasn't a naval power as it's that Galicia and the Basque don't have as much going on for them. Of course, the Basque could focus on their strong and unique culture, but then that's also a feature of Catalonia, where I also worked the alliance with city states thing you've got for Aragon. The Basque could have a Production focus however, they are the most developed and industrialized part of Spain after all... ah, Spanish Kingdoms are complicated.

For Castile I want something like: "Defensive Buildings increase the rate at which borders expand" as that would be so flavorful for them...

Well, if Galicia forces you to modify the other civs because they don't have enough about them, then one is forced to ask, why bother with Galicia atall? They were never a major player, and for most of the reconquista were barely even a player, independent from Leon for only a brief window when used as a pawn of Navarre.
 
Well, dunno really, it simply stood out as yet another part of those communities that spoke a different language inside Spain so I thought they also were deserving of an inclusion. Now, they did play a big role in settling the Americas, or Chile at least, so they did accomplish a role, if minor.
Well, I'll see and try to find a good concept for them, or discard them if that's not the case.
 
I'd argue that Galica is pretty important - I don't know enough about them, true, but believe they are unique enough from other Spanish regions to qualify as a full civ. As for the Basque (or whatever we end up calling them), I think that reflecting their unique culture is highly important here. While Catalonia can have some sort of cultural bonus, it's the Basque that take the prize for ultimate historical turtles. Thank you very much with the help on planning anyway!
 
I'd argue that Galica is pretty important - I don't know enough about them, true, but believe they are unique enough from other Spanish regions to qualify as a full civ. As for the Basque (or whatever we end up calling them), I think that reflecting their unique culture is highly important here. While Catalonia can have some sort of cultural bonus, it's the Basque that take the prize for ultimate historical turtles. Thank you very much with the help on planning anyway!

But there's really so little to base the civ on, they were briefly independent from Leon from 910 to 929 and then again from 1065 to 1072. That's pretty much it. The big interesting thing is that they have a separate language to the rest of Spain, but that's not particularly exciting because the only reason its different is because it belongs to the same group as Portuguese instead of Spanish. I'm not trying to be rude here, but I just don't think there's enough here to go into a civ based on the fact it has a language, because then it would just be the Basque civ but less interesting, because Galician isn't an isolate.

What about including Santiago de Compostela as a cultured city state within the Spanish civs pack?
 
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