Our World: Civilizations of the Modern Age Design Discussion

It's not supposed to be Industrial Japan as much as it is supposed to be modern Japan. And weak is far from it lol, you guys underestimate how powerful a combo of science and tourism, the two most powerful yields, can be.

The main problem is that the civ does nothing before Industrial Era. Neither the Uniques nor the UA kick in until you're well into it, and by then you'll probably be well behind everybody else.

As for PRC, I'd go with a Tank, the Type 79 most probably, having lower production cost or something.

That is definitely not the case.

Receive a tourism bonus in the capital whenever a science building is built in the empire.

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May not write a Political Treatsie. Mangaka increase Science in the empire by +20% for three turns after their birth.

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Both of these are active throughout the whole game. The Mangaka especially has a strong effect that can give you a Science advantage early on.

The again, with a civ that has this many science bonuses I believe that not having many bonuses early on is quite effective in keeping it balanced. Keep in mind that 3 vanilla civs that have science bonuses are considered to be top tier in this game (Maya, Korea and Babylon).

Hurr durr... I didn't mean that I think the design is weak from a gameplay standpoint, I meant I think it doesn't fit Japan. Blame my poor phrasing.

COF said:

It's not supposed to be Industrial Japan as much as it is supposed to be modern Japan.

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...yeah? You think I didn't know that?

Oh, and... That Mangaka is derived from my design, man.

Everything is taken purely from Urdnot_Scott's design.

The Mangaka you posted in your previous post was not.

On a sidenote, that is one weird Kosovo design...

Zantonius Hamm said:

The Mangaka you posted in your previous post was not.

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It is, given that Urdnot_Scott's design now uses it. I'd assume that you came up with that idea and he put it into the design.

The design I posted

UU: Mangaka (Replaces Great Writer)
The Mangaka creates Manga, Great works of writing unique to Japan. These Manga generate double tourism yields for 3 turns when Japan discovers a new technology, this time is increased by one turn for every other civ which has not discovered that technology.

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Urdnot_Scott's design

The wording is identical, after all I literally copy/pasted it.

Only difference is the removed happiness bonus, which I found to be too strong, which I also stated when posting the design.

A Kosovo design from scapegrace and Eli? You have told them its for "civilizations of the present", or didn't you?
(Its good though, but weird.)

The Kosovo design is indeed odd. But I am satisfied because the UA captures the spirit of religious nationalism that drives the modern Balkan struggles. I don't want to directly refer to the Kosovo War in the design, as it would cause unnecessary controversy and I found it fairly difficult to generate uniques from it.

If you'll forgive me, here's a slight reworking of the UAE and Turkmenistan Civs:

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United Arab Emirates (Zayed bin Sultan al Nahyan)
Start Bias: Desert
Capital: Abu Dhabi
UA: Trucial Sheikhdoms
Generate +1 Tourism for every 200 Gold in your treasury. Generate +1 Gold in the Capital for every point of Tourism generated there. Bonuses to Gold generation are applied to Wonder Production.
UU: Qasimi Raider (replaces Privateer)
Cheaper than the Privateer it replaces, and even cheaper to buy with Gold, the Qasimi Raider starts with the unique promotion, "Terror Of The Pirate Coast", that allows it to generate double the normal amount of Gold when plundering a Trade Route, as well as Coastal Raider I and II. Upgrades to Ironclad.
UB: Free Zone (replaces Stock Exchange)
+5 and +33% Gold. 2 Merchant specialist slots. +1 Tourism for each International Trade Route sent to the City in which it is built.

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Turkmenistan (Saparmurat Niyazov)
Start Bias: Plains
Capital: Ashgabat
UA: Turkmenbasy
Great People increase the yields of the Palace by +2 each time they are expended. Great Works and Theming Bonuses yield Happiness rather than Tourism.
UB: Altyn Heýkel (replaces Monument)
+2 Culture. In cities other than the Capital, lowers Production, Gold, and Science by 1. The Capital generates +1 additional Production, Gold, Science, and Culture for each Altyn Heýkel in the Empire.
UU: Basmachi (replaces Great War Infantry)
Cities training a Basmachi enter a We Love The King Day for the duration of the unit's construction. Upon completion, generates a flat amount of Culture equal to double its Combat Strength plus its starting Experience. Basmachi trained in the Capital start with the unique promotion "Turkmen Guard", which allows them to earn experience twice as fast when fighting in their own territory. Basmachi can attack other Turkmen units; if they destroy them, the Capital enters a 5-turn We Love The King Day.

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Hope these are at least interesting. Also, FYI, the Turkmen UB translates as "Gold Statue". Now what fine slice of crazy could that be referring to? =]

Thanks for the input! I think part two of the UAE ability needs to be toned down, but I really love the first and third parts. I also am concerned that the Free Zone is named too closely to PRC's Special Economic Zone, at least in concept. That's why I chose Trade Center.

The Turkmen UB is....very very interesting. This would certianly shape how the player makes his decisions, which is the ultimate goal of an effective civ design. I am concerned about the first part of the UA, as that would create an insanely powerful capital along with the UB. Also thanks so much for finding a UU!

Yeah, with all the gold buildings, that's a massive 43% wonder construction bonus. Add in a little bit of commerce and Tradition, and Egypt can't come near beating you to a wonder. Just a tad OP.

Also, Jesus Christ, that Turkmenistan UA! I normally get around 15-20 Great People in a game...

Turkmenistan was, as befits the playground of the man who banned yoghurt, basically an exercise in capital-centric Civ design that makes the capital to the direct detriment of other cities. You're probably right about the UA, though. Here's an updated version.

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Turkmenistan UA: Turkmenbasy
One third of the percentage bonuses in your Cities is redirected to the Capital, rounded up. Great Works and Theming Bonuses generate Happiness rather than Tourism.

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Is that better? I think it's more in line with the whole "Ashgabat is the sandpit of Eternal President Loony" idea, though if anything it's even more abusable by the AI. You can get quite a lot of bonuses later, but because you're getting less yields everywhere that's not Ashgabat, it's kind of hard to get them.

Also, here's the reworked UAE UA.

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UAE UA: Trucial Sheikhdoms
Generate +1 Tourism for each 200 Gold in your treasury. +1% Wonder Production bonus in the Capital for every 2 Tourism generated in it. National and World Wonders yield +1 Tourism every time you advance to a new Era.

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Slightly more balanced, since while the bonus is powerful, it only affects one city - so best get those Culture Wonders out early! =]

I think the current Turkmen design is good as it is if only because I made it.

That is a more balanced Turkmenistan, indeed. Before I fully adpot it, I want to see what others think about that UB you posted, especially for balance purposes.

The UAE is good as well, close to my original. I think that the wonder production could apply to all cities, but be capped.

How would people feel about switching out the Athlete/Sportsman in East Germany for a Bausoldat unit? (Sorry, DoctorMcGann...) I've found it difficult to come up with a good effect for the Sportsman.

Scapegrace said:

Turkmenistan was, as befits the playground of the man who banned yoghurt, basically an exercise in capital-centric Civ design that makes the capital to the direct detriment of other cities. You're probably right about the UA, though. Here's an updated version.

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Turkmenistan UA: Turkmenbasy
One third of the percentage bonuses in your Cities is redirected to the Capital, rounded up. Great Works and Theming Bonuses generate Happiness rather than Tourism.

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Is that better? I think it's more in line with the whole "Ashgabat is the sandpit of Eternal President Loony" idea, though if anything it's even more abusable by the AI. You can get quite a lot of bonuses later, but because you're getting less yields everywhere that's not Ashgabat, it's kind of hard to get them.

Also, here's the reworked UAE UA.

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UAE UA: Trucial Sheikhdoms
Generate +1 Tourism for each 200 Gold in your treasury. +1% Wonder Production bonus in the Capital for every 2 Tourism generated in it. National and World Wonders yield +1 Tourism every time you advance to a new Era.

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Slightly more balanced, since while the bonus is powerful, it only affects one city - so best get those Culture Wonders out early! =]

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I like those better. Much more balanced.

So what happens to the Natural Gas now?

SuperWaffle247 said:

How would people feel about switching out the Athlete/Sportsman in East Germany for a Bausoldat unit? (Sorry, DoctorMcGann...) I've found it difficult to come up with a good effect for the Sportsman.

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Would it be possible to make it like a joint Great Merchant/Musician? So that it can provide influence to foreign civs and city states? Or maybe it's a great merchant, but when it performs its trade mission, it gives around +20 tourism to all civs?